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Archive 2013 · Ranger Quadra vs Einstein vs Hot Shoe Flash Power Comparison!

  
 
derbarrett
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Ranger Quadra vs Einstein vs Hot Shoe Flash Power Comparison!


I've been lusting over Elinchrom Ranger Quadra for a quite a few months now and last week I lucked up and snagged a killer deal on a like new Elinchrom Ranger Quadra RX kit ($825). The light just arrived today and for those of you who may be intrested I was able to do some quick comparison test this evening. I couldn't really find anything like this when I was trying to compare the power output of hot shoe flashes vs moonlights so hopefully this will be useful to someone.

Parameters : Distance = 14ft, ISO = 100, Shutter = 1/200, 24x24 softbox (double baffled).

1. (1) YN 560ii zoomed in @105 (full power) = f2.8
2. (2) YN 560ii zoomed in @105 (full power) = f4.0
3. (1) Einstein E640 @ 400ws (technically 394ws) = f7.1
4. (1) Ranger Quadra @ 400ws (full power) = f7.1
5. (1) Einstein E640 @ 640ws (full power) = f9.0

I also did a very quick bare bulb test around 14ft and to my surprise I got f13 from both Ranger Quadra and (2) hotshot flashes…. this was just a function a of tighter light spread coming from the hot shoe flashes hitting the light meter vs a much wider spread from the Quadra. I hope this info is useful to those of you out there that may be thinking about upgrading your lighting kit!!



Apr 30, 2013 at 08:39 PM
visnew
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Ranger Quadra vs Einstein vs Hot Shoe Flash Power Comparison!


wow - thanks for the great info. I've been trying to compare the power from speedlights and a Einstein and this is the best I've seen. If I'm reading your numbers correctly, I think it means I'll need five YN560II's to get close to the Einstein's power. Is that right?


Apr 30, 2013 at 09:11 PM
CraigB1960
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Ranger Quadra vs Einstein vs Hot Shoe Flash Power Comparison!


Thanks, did you do a bare bulb with the Einstein? Is there a reason you went at 14', most test at 10'?



Apr 30, 2013 at 09:25 PM
derbarrett
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Ranger Quadra vs Einstein vs Hot Shoe Flash Power Comparison!


CraigB1960 wrote:
Thanks, did you do a bare bulb with the Einstein? Is there a reason you went at 14', most test at 10'?


1. Yes I did do a bare bulb test with Einstein (no reflector) but did not note the result.. if I remember correctly I only got f7.1.. the light spreads everywhere without a reflector.

2. Nope there was reason I picked 14'… I just randomly picked a spot that I felt was reasonably far away from my light meter… when I measured it just so happened to be 14'



Apr 30, 2013 at 10:25 PM
derbarrett
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Ranger Quadra vs Einstein vs Hot Shoe Flash Power Comparison!


visnew wrote:
wow - thanks for the great info. I've been trying to compare the power from speedlights and a Einstein and this is the best I've seen. If I'm reading your numbers correctly, I think it means I'll need five YN560II's to get close to the Einstein's power. Is that right?


Yeah that sounds about right.. probably somewhere between 5-6.



Apr 30, 2013 at 10:33 PM
DigMeTX
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Ranger Quadra vs Einstein vs Hot Shoe Flash Power Comparison!


Theoretically I think you'd need 8 flashes to get to f8 based on this test, right? And then another one or two to get it to the Einstein's f9. Am I figuring that wrong?

brad




May 01, 2013 at 08:20 AM
CraigB1960
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Ranger Quadra vs Einstein vs Hot Shoe Flash Power Comparison!


derbarrett wrote:
1. Yes I did do a bare bulb test with Einstein (no reflector) but did not note the result.. if I remember correctly I only got f7.1.. the light spreads everywhere without a reflector.

2. Nope there was reason I picked 14'… I just randomly picked a spot that I felt was reasonably far away from my light meter… when I measured it just so happened to be 14'


Thanks again. I wish more would do this test and post. (ummmm, I should post mine). Other than Paul Buff, most just give GN and we really don't know how they tested. PB even specifies the room, which does influence the value as well. They specify BB and with different reflectors.

Flashpoint 1200 monolight test values:
Bare Bulb: Full power - 12.7 With reflector - 14.0 1/10th
Lowest power setting
Bare Bulb: 5.0 1/10th With reflector - 5.6 2/10ths

Nikon SB-910 (GN of 90 ft at 24mm)*
24mm
Full power: 9.0
Mid power - 3.2 2/10th
Lowest power setting: 1.3

Nikon SB-900 (GN of 90 ft at 24mm)*
24mm
Full Power 9.0
Med. power - 3.2 2/10th
Lowest Power setting - 1.3 2/10th

Measurements made at 10' using Sekonic L-478DR at ISO 100 with dome in.

*The Nikon Speedlights had an external battery pack attached, 24mm zoom head position, FX format, standard illumination pattern, temp about 70°F.

Nikon specifies: 34 m/111.5 ft. (at ISO 100, 35mm zoom head position, in FX format, standard illumination pattern, 20°C/68°F)



May 01, 2013 at 08:21 AM
derbarrett
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Ranger Quadra vs Einstein vs Hot Shoe Flash Power Comparison!


DigMeTX wrote:
Theoretically I think you'd need 8 flashes to get to f8 based on this test, right? And then another one or two to get it to the Einstein's f9. Am I figuring that wrong?

brad



Yeah you are correct... I had a brain fart and missed a whole fstop (5.6)...



May 01, 2013 at 08:31 AM
photosymbol
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Ranger Quadra vs Einstein vs Hot Shoe Flash Power Comparison!


The elinchrom Quadra has quite a few things going for it, particularly in its most recent incarnation.

First is weight. The lithium battery pack is tiny and you get quite a few pops out of it. Secondly, the weight isn't on the head, like it would be with the Einstein. Third, you get modifiers that won't blow off in the wind.

I had a few AB800's in the early days, and after doing a shoot on a runway and watching my octa fly away into oblivion, i vowed to never use anything with that mount again.

Lastly, while PCB provides amazing support, (IMO - he has to, otherwise he'd go out of business with the failure rates i see on the forums) I rarely see many people speak of Elinchrom failures. Surely, there have been some, i can dig up a few right now, but compared to PCBs, it seems minimal to me.

The only issue i have with Elinchrom as a brand and its longevity at the moment is that in this economy they are playing it safe, instead of continual innovation, they are modifying existing products only.

But i'm heavily invested in the Elinchrom system, i have the Quadra, Ranger RX AS Speed, just about every modifier they make, lighttools and honeycomb grids for them etc...

I use the Quadra in almost all of my shoots, i beat the snot out of it and it keeps ticking. Hard to complain. And it's usable in really bright sunlight also.

YMMV.



May 01, 2013 at 08:51 AM
cordellwillis
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Ranger Quadra vs Einstein vs Hot Shoe Flash Power Comparison!


photosymbol wrote:
Lastly, while PCB provides amazing support, (IMO - he has to, otherwise he'd go out of business with the failure rates i see on the forums) I rarely see many people speak of Elinchrom failures. Surely, there have been some, i can dig up a few right now, but compared to PCBs, it seems minimal to me.


If you sell 10,000 and have 100 failures people will read about 100 failures.
If you sell 1,000 and have 10 failures people will read about 10 failures.

The rate of failure is the same but the number occurrences of what we read are significantly different.

More people can afford PCB gear.



May 03, 2013 at 07:51 AM
CMB Photo
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Ranger Quadra vs Einstein vs Hot Shoe Flash Power Comparison!


derbarrett wrote:
I've been lusting over Elinchrom Ranger Quadra for a quite a few months now and last week I lucked up and snagged a killer deal on a like new Elinchrom Ranger Quadra RX kit ($825). The light just arrived today and for those of you who may be intrested I was able to do some quick comparison test this evening. I couldn't really find anything like this when I was trying to compare the power output of hot shoe flashes vs moonlights so hopefully this will be useful to someone.

Parameters : Distance = 14ft, ISO = 100, Shutter = 1/200,
...Show more


Thanks. Good to know and close to my AB1600 same power, right? I wonder if anyone can explain it to me when testing inside my basement (small) bare bulb effect vs. other smaller powered flashes f - stops results get closer vs. direct light?! Inverse square law + distance travelled + max. output power?




May 03, 2013 at 09:14 AM
photosymbol
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Ranger Quadra vs Einstein vs Hot Shoe Flash Power Comparison!


cordellwillis wrote:
If you sell 10,000 and have 100 failures people will read about 100 failures.
If you sell 1,000 and have 10 failures people will read about 10 failures.

The rate of failure is the same but the number occurrences of what we read are significantly different.

More people can afford PCB gear.


This is true, in theory at least...

But there is an equalizer which you may have overlooked. Elinchrom is worldwide and many more users outside the US. Alienbee is used worldwide in much less quantity. Am i saying they are equal? I have no idea... but it's got to close the gap quite significantly.




May 03, 2013 at 10:23 AM
sboerup
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Ranger Quadra vs Einstein vs Hot Shoe Flash Power Comparison!


I'll chime in on my experience with lighting kits. I've owned (maybe in this order) the following:
-Alien Bees
-Quantum kits
-Elinchrom Ranger RX (multiple)
-Profoto D4, Acute2, AcuteB (one of my favs)
-Elinchrom RX600
-Elinchrom Quadra (I was one of the first to actually import Skyports into the country)
-Einsteins

I've also had extensive use and practice with Dynalite and Lumedyne lights as well.

The Alien Bees are the cheapo's and lowest quality I would recommend. They work, are tough and reliable, and work with batteries very well.

Quantum was too small, didn't have enough features for my needs (adaptability to softboxes, replacement batteries).

I finally decided to get a big boy setup and splurged on a Ranger RX system. 1200ws was a lot of power, but it was a reliable kit. Heavy, but had a lot of pops in the batteries. Not a huge fan of the Elinchrom mount either.

Profoto. Ahhhh, the cream of the crop. I had a D4 (4 independent digitally controlled heads) for architecture work. I then moved to an AcuteB setup (as soon as they came out) and travelled a lot with this sucker. It was small enough, portable enough, and tough enough to rely on. Good amount of pops too, but EXPENSIVE. I then had an Acute2 setup for studio. Probably my favorite lights for simplicity and light quality, they have a certain color temperature that is just beautiful.

I then switched to the RX600s for wireless control when the Skyports came out. Great light, good power, but lacking on build quality. Digital control was nice compared to Profoto, but quality just wasn't the same. Using these with the Vagabond2 was a PAIN, super heavy kit. But their modifiers were a great deal and easy to setup.

When the Quadra was announced, I was giddy. Finally a decent quality light that weight very little. Well, it worked and gave me good power, but, it's a fragile system. I had 2 flash tubes fry on me, as well as 2 packs. They replaced/repaired them when I sent them in, but, because I only had one at the time, it wasn't very reliable at all. And because of the smaller size, the heads are WEAK. You have to use an expensive adapter to hook up any of their bigger lights, and the head attachment and adapter are weak IMO. I was glad to see it go.

The Einsteins offer the best bang for the buck, hands down, no question. 9 stops of range, 600ws down to like 5ws (the low end is more important to me than the top). Combined with the VML there is really no appeal in any other system, except for Profoto's build and light quality. The Einsteins are tough, accept great modifiers (MUCH better mounting system than Elinchrom IMO), have full digital control in a wireless setup (and it works well too, although the cybercommander is a cheap ugly piece), the best flash durations and the best support. I'm very happy with my switch and see no reason to go to another system, it's that good. For the price of (1) AcuteB setup, I can get (3) Einsteins, (3) VMLs, plus a set of triggers...I like having multiple backups rather than rely on one.

Einstein > Profoto > Ranger RX > RX600 > Quadra > all others

The new Cheetah flash looks to be cool if it can get up to the 400ws range, but then its about modifier access too.

Hope this helps someone!



May 03, 2013 at 10:57 AM
delsol9400
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Ranger Quadra vs Einstein vs Hot Shoe Flash Power Comparison!


I have to say... I've had the quadra, and I currently use the Einstein. The Einstein wins hands down. Yes, all the weight is on the head... but it's so light anyway. What makes the Einstein win for me is the ability to quickly change power levels via pocketwizard -- AND, not just change levels, but to power track... so every time you change fstop on the camera, the light's power level follows you. If you need more or less I just move the wheel on my AC3. It's the best thing to use for weddings and engagement shoots where you need a lot of power and have to act quick.


May 03, 2013 at 01:05 PM
joosay
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Ranger Quadra vs Einstein vs Hot Shoe Flash Power Comparison!


I use Einsteins right now but the Cheetah flash looks very enticing. Especially since they will be coming out with a CL-360 which will be 307 w/s, HSS capable.


May 03, 2013 at 03:04 PM
Jeff Simpson
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Ranger Quadra vs Einstein vs Hot Shoe Flash Power Comparison!


It varies from person to person.

For me quadra > einsteins. I've used both and own 2 quadras now. On location shooting I can't have the weight in the head. it's lighter than any profoto offering. in fact, the head itself is as light as a 580ex2. i do wish it went down to ~5Ws though.

i could see the einsteins being the best for indoor studio work, or if you always have an assistant willing to hold it and lug it around lol.



May 03, 2013 at 03:14 PM





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