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Archive 2013 · Trade gone wrong, what do I do?
  
 
PeakPhoto
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Trade gone wrong, what do I do?


Well I have a definite pit in my stomach right now. I had recently put my 70-200 F/2.8 Non-IS up for trade. Well I traded it with ijtalbot for a 24-105 F/4. After it got misdirected two times the tracking number shows it was delivered Friday, but I never received it. So I emailed USPS as to why it said it was delivered when it was not. Well there response was that it was delivered to the Bozeman Hospital on Highland Blvd, they had a picture of it and said it didn't have my name or address anywhere on it.

I called the Bozeman Hospital and they said they definitely have not received a camera lens. So I log on to email Ijtalbot to see what was up, or at least hope he had insurance on the package if it did in fact get lost. And I just found out his account is now locked, for reasons I have no idea. But I have a terrible feeling I'll never see my 70-200 or a 24-105. I'm a college student and there is no way I can afford to buy a 24-105 at this time so this just sucks all the way around.

He had 7 "great" feedbacks on his account so I figured it was a safe bet to trade with him.

Is there anything I can do? Where do I start.



Apr 15, 2013 at 02:55 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Trade gone wrong, what do I do?


Hi Andy,
Trading is not a secure transaction as no insured payment is involved. It's basically an exchange of goods and the transaction is based on trust. I always advise members using secure payment methods when doing transactions online but of course that is not possible in a trade.

The other issue here is that there is no actual transaction thread. I'm imagining the transaction was conducted via PM and that is not very secure either. I highly discourage conducting transactions solely via PM.

Here is the Disclosure, Rules and Guidelines link.

Member "ijtalbot" was reported "suspicious" to me and I immediately suspended his account. He had very few posts and none recently until this trade. Unfortunately having a few great feedback in the past does not assure the member is trustworthy.

As I wrote you in my previous PM, I'm sorry this happened to you. If there is any further information you need, please let me know via PM.
Fred



Apr 15, 2013 at 03:13 PM
zlgragg
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Trade gone wrong, what do I do?


Dear PeakPhoto,

I'm sincerely sorry this situation has occured to you. I also am a College student and I also was pming IJTalbot about a trade proposition in late March of 2013. I'm hopeful this incident works out in your favor. I have some things to say, with a grain of salt - of course - because this incidence has not been completed. I mean, who knows if this was an honest mishap that just needs some time to fix or if it was a bad action by IJTalbot. Therefore, I will now just attempt to share some of my experiences and thoughts in an objective manner, which doesn't imply Ijtalbot to be a bad person, etc.

For the record, I was told by IJTalbot that he was in the military and required the package to be shipped overseas. (I'm not sure where you shipped your package.) He said shipping fees were essentially the same, so that didn't much bother me. We were going to do a partial trade, where he would trade two leneses + some cash for my 1Ds2. Initially, he wanted to pay the cash difference once the camera arrived as decribed via PayPal. I convinced him to pay the cash difference prior to purchase via PayPal. He said the following:

"I suppose I could send the pay ahead of time. I'm just a bit neurotic =) I will need a paypal email from you though.
Basically on the customs form you will write your name and address, my name and address, the contents of the package, and sign/date it. That's all. I think there is one for items <$200 and a larger one for items >$200.
My address is:
... [note I can include his address upon Fred's request, but otherwise not - for security reasons]"

To validate his legitimacy, he previously said:
"I should mention that I have over 150 positive feedback on eBay under the same name."
I checked this claim, and he had 50 positive feedbacks. For some reason, I did not private message him on eBay, although I pm'd other users who used that way to validate themselves. I'm not sure why I overlooked that safety procedure.

Thoughts/Advice:
One thing is that the hospital may not have found the package yet. Also, they may not have opened it yet. Or, the person you spoke to was not aware of it. I would recommend you ask the hopsital periodically. Also, the hopsital may not be talking about the mailed package due to privacy reasons - not sure of the laws there, and/or the representatitves understanding of laws/practices of the hospital.
Another thing, IJT said he was active duty military. So, your inability to reach him may be due to an assignment or something. As a military person, I'd imagine him to be good for his word and honorable. Hopefully he's just unable to respond at the moment.
Also, I'm a College student going through a debacle with Amazon, where I may lose the value of a Zeiss 50mm f/1.4 Planar T*. I've been dealing with that stress for the past few weeks, after I found the Amazon user filed a claim during my Spring Break, which I didn't respond to. In lieu of me not responding - even due to my ignorance of the fact - Amazon granted their money back, with no promise of my return. You can message me to talk about the situation. I mean, I can sympathize with you on *possibly* losing money as a struggling College student. The Amazon user *may* send back the Zeiss lens and IJTalbot *could* be a good guy and this thing could just be a mix-up in the process of its resolution.

Futhermore, if Fred Miranda wants to see the record of my conversation with IJTalbot, please contact me; or if Fred wants to talk to me about anything, may he feel free to message me. I'll do all I can to contribute to resolving this issue on FredMiranda.com. This is my new favorite website and I want to make it a good place for everyone.

Best Regards,
Zachary Gragg



Apr 15, 2013 at 04:56 PM
jctalbot
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Trade gone wrong, what do I do?


Hello,
I thought I'd chime in here, as it's finally occurred to me that I could log in with my wife's account she used to buy me a gift and try to get my other account unlocked - this is IJTalbot.
I'm not entirely sure what was deemed suspicious before, though I imagine that it could have to do with the fact that I'm military overseas and was asking people to ship overseas via APO.
As for ebay, logging in just now I realized my login ISN'T IJTalbot like it is everywhere else. It's Oxygen_Boarder03, is 10 years old, has 158 positive feedback, and I'd be happy to reply to any message there.
I'm currently talking with Andy (PeakPhoto) about our situation (via email thanks to Fred giving it to him) and I'm sure he can attest to me being very amicable. We are currently unable to figure out exactly what happened with his package but are working together. I had been checking his tracking number and at one point it was marked "missent," however now it's marked delivered. Something is amiss, but Andy and I will get to the bottom of it.
I apologize if I broke any of the forum rules, as it HAD been a while since I've been here. I'd really like the opportunity to get my account back. I promise to read all the rules before posting again=)

zlgragg, thank you for your input and not jumping to any conclusions like I imagine most people would reading the above.
-IJTalbot



Apr 15, 2013 at 05:24 PM
anthonysemone
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Trade gone wrong, what do I do?


jctalbot: FWIW, you might have started here by posting a fully filled out profile, ya know, what gear you have, where you are physically located with respect to the "military overseas." Ya know, someway so that you can be accessed by a simple inspection of looking at your profile. Ebay is a crock of shite, and everybody here knows that. 3000 Positive feedbacks on the shitehole for selling christmas cards or ribbons for dogs doesn't cut.

Word to the wise, FM'ers. Positive feedback even here doesn't cut it, especially in the absence of clearly spelled out location data. Andy: with all due respect, you didn't do "due diligence" so it shouldn't be unexpected that the transaction went belly up. If this guy is APO, ask him for his CO's name, Unit ID, Base, and APO identifier.




Apr 15, 2013 at 06:13 PM
15Bit
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Trade gone wrong, what do I do?


Though in the modern age we tend to assume the worst, postal system failure is not all that uncommon. Not so many years ago I sent my sister's Christmas present next day delivery with signature (in the UK, not Norway). It didn't arrive, so I called the mail people who told me it was to be delivered the next day. That didn't happen, so I called again and was told it was at a depot somewhere unrelated. The next time I called they had no idea where it was. And so on. This went on for a while, and I was halfway through sorting out an insurance claim when it arrived back at my apartment. Three weeks after posting.

So don't always assume the worst, sometimes stuff does just get lost in the mail.



Apr 15, 2013 at 06:32 PM
jctalbot
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Trade gone wrong, what do I do?


Anthony,
Thank you for the flipside to zlgragg's optimism.
As I mentioned, this is my wife's account which she created for the sole purpose of purchasing a CF card for me for Christmas. She doesn't have equipment and therefore can't have much of a profile, though admittedly she could have put our country in there.
I think you can cut Andy a bit of slack, since he has my APO address, and there's no way I'd tell him, or anyone for that matter, my commander's name or the unit I'm attached to. That's private information and it is a matter of security for me to withhold.
I do appreciate the constructive feedback, but saying things like "the transaction went belly up" sends the wrong message of the situation. We're doing fine communicating and figuring out the situation together now that we have contact.

15Bit,
It's scary to think of how much stuff they probably lose in a given year. I'm crossing my fingers that it pops up, or I'm hanging my head in shame that I didn't insure it. Likely both, haha.

-IJTalbot



Apr 15, 2013 at 06:48 PM
PeakPhoto
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Trade gone wrong, what do I do?


Thanks for the input everyone... and thanks to Fred for sending me IJTalbot's email so I was able to get ahold of him. IJTalbot has been very responsive and helpful and I do think it was a misunderstanding... now to try and track down what happened to the package. It definitely didn't look good for me, no package, and seller was banned. But I do believe IJTalbot is a good guy and that he did send he package.

Regardless I think it's only buy and sell on the forum from now on... trading is just too risky.

Andy



Apr 15, 2013 at 07:40 PM
zlgragg
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Trade gone wrong, what do I do?


Please, keep us updated.

Wishing all the best,
Zak



Apr 16, 2013 at 06:38 AM
PeakPhoto
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Trade gone wrong, what do I do?


I wanted to give an update.... the findings are that the guy absolutely scammed me. No doubt about it.

After no avail from either the hospital or the local post office I decided it was time to take this to the USPS website. I knew there was a picture of the package from when it was being scanned and I asked to see it. I was called and told that they aren't allowed to actually show the image, but they can describe the features.

The return address was in fact for Ian Talbot (ijtalbot) with his APO address. But the piece was addressed to the Bozeman Deconess Hospital with their mailing address. They also told me it was a priority flat rate envelope. When I asked if there was any way a lens could be inside they told me there wasn't a chance.

I also have been in contact with another FMr who also was involved with a trade with ijtalbot. He also had his package saying "delivered" but he had not received it. ijtalbot maintains that it isn't his fault and that it's the USPS who is stealing his mail (maybe if it was one package, but two is damn near impossible to believe).

He offered to return my lens, which I declined because I want him to give me the money value of the lens. Because if he's already done it twice what's to stop him from continuing to reroute "my lens" to throw off the scent and buy him time. He refuses to give me the money. So I gave him one last chance, he either sends me the money or I call his Commanding Officer. I also will file a mail fraud report as scamming through the mail is in fact a federal offence.

Anyway, there's your update!

Cheers,

Andy



Apr 23, 2013 at 12:26 AM
 

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BenV
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Trade gone wrong, what do I do?


Wow, what a piece of garbage. I hope he gets caught and gets a dishonorable discharge.


Apr 23, 2013 at 03:28 AM
anthonysemone
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Trade gone wrong, what do I do?


+1 on the call to his CO. You may also want to check with the Military Police on his duty station to inquire of them how to file charges against one of troops


Apr 23, 2013 at 01:36 PM
borderlight
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Trade gone wrong, what do I do?


I doubt he is in the military. That seems to be the best excuse to scam people. A dose of troop sympathy mixed with a built-in alibi to get things "lost" or suddenly become personally untraceable. I said it before on FM not to do business with APO addresses.


Apr 23, 2013 at 02:00 PM
15Bit
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Trade gone wrong, what do I do?


My sympathies - it's no fun losing a lot of money


Apr 23, 2013 at 02:51 PM
PeakPhoto
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Trade gone wrong, what do I do?


Alright so after I threatened to call his CO he immediately paypal'd me the $700. He still claims his innocence so I will not comment either way. He does claim I'm blackmailing him by threatening to call his CO, but I don't agree with that. I see it as giving the opportunity to solve the problem before I take it to the CO.

So I finally can get my 24-105 F/4 before my big trips in May.

Cheers everyone,

Andy



Apr 23, 2013 at 03:08 PM
BenV
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Trade gone wrong, what do I do?


Thank god you got your money back! Everything screams of scam! I'm sure you've noticed, but his account has been locked as well.

Edited on Apr 23, 2013 at 03:19 PM · View previous versions



Apr 23, 2013 at 03:12 PM
15Bit
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Trade gone wrong, what do I do?


You should still file an official report of the incident, as a crime may have been committed here. You may stop some other poor soul suffering the trouble you've had.


Apr 23, 2013 at 03:15 PM
15Bit
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Trade gone wrong, what do I do?


Also , be damn sure you get the PayPal money before you spend it - there are plenty of ways to get scammed through PayPal payments.


Apr 23, 2013 at 03:18 PM
anthonysemone
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Trade gone wrong, what do I do?


borderlight wrote:
I doubt he is in the military. That seems to be the best excuse to scam people. A dose of troop sympathy mixed with a built-in alibi to get things "lost" or suddenly become personally untraceable. I said it before on FM not to do business with APO addresses.


In which case I would be out some exceptional Nikon MF glass purchased from Don Jean in Italy on a military base complete with an APO address.



Apr 23, 2013 at 06:29 PM
Mickey
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Trade gone wrong, what do I do?


PeakPhoto wrote:
Alright so after I threatened to call his CO he immediately paypal'd me the $700. He still claims his innocence so I will not comment either way. He does claim I'm blackmailing him by threatening to call his CO, but I don't agree with that. I see it as giving the opportunity to solve the problem before I take it to the CO.

So I finally can get my 24-105 F/4 before my big trips in May.

Cheers everyone,

Andy


If he is in the military you are blackmailing him. If he worked at the local Sear store or Chevrolet dealer would you have threatened to call his boss? I doubt it. A call to his CO however can get him in serious trouble whether he is innocent or not. Most military folks would pay up even if innocent. No military person can stand to have an accusation like that in their personnel file. It can ruin any chance for promotion, getting a good assignment or being selected for advanced training.



Apr 23, 2013 at 08:12 PM
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