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Archive 2013 · Mirrorless/"rangefinder-style"/etc. forum?
  
 
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Mirrorless/"rangefinder-style"/etc. forum?


Maybe I missed it, but it seems like such a forum might be increasingly interesting these days...


Feb 28, 2013 at 04:43 PM
borderlight
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Mirrorless/"rangefinder-style"/etc. forum?


Unless you are referencing the Leica M series or Fuji X100 a (digital) mirror less "rangefinder-style" camera is non-existent. The consumer trend seems to favor small mirror less cameras, not DSLRs. IMO the typical bulky DSLR will eventually succumb to those smaller, Olympus Pen-size cameras, some having a FF chip. It's only a matter of time before pro photographers will have fewer camera options selecting larger cameras. The market for small-chip cameras has already given way to cell phones that include improved optics and sharper pictures.


Feb 28, 2013 at 05:51 PM
Eyeball
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Mirrorless/"rangefinder-style"/etc. forum?


gdanmitchell wrote:
Maybe I missed it, but it seems like such a forum might be increasingly interesting these days...


Just curious, Dan. Why do you think this can't be handled by the current Canon, Nikon, and Alt forums?



Feb 28, 2013 at 06:16 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Mirrorless/"rangefinder-style"/etc. forum?


Eyeball wrote:
Just curious, Dan. Why do you think this can't be handled by the current Canon, Nikon, and Alt forums?


First, the an earlier poster, note that I wrote "rangefinder-style" and not "rangefinder." I understand the difference, and I also understand that this is one of the ways to refer to some of the mirrorless cameras such as the Fuji models.

I did find some discussions in the Alt forum eventually. In my view, the current approach (basically Canon, Nikon, and Alt) made sense when the focus was on DSLRs and there were primarily two players. However, it seems to me that things are changing rather quickly when it comes the mirrorless/rangefinder-style/EVIL/etc cameras and they are a) become something other than purely Alt (as in "alternative") options b) not primarily coming from Canon and Nikon, c) starting to form a recognizable "type" of gear, and d) the area of "serious" digital cameras in which the most growth and innovation is currently occurring.

In my view - and I know others will feel differently since this is, after all, a photography forum - we are at the point now where a forum for this particular type of camera would be useful, popular, and appropriate... and not necessarily tied to a particular brand.

Take care,

Dan



Mar 01, 2013 at 01:19 AM
borderlight
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Mirrorless/"rangefinder-style"/etc. forum?


In my view - and I know others will feel differently since this is, after all, a photography forum - we are at the point now where a forum for this particular type of camera would be useful, popular, and appropriate... and not necessarily tied to a particular brand.


I agree. I think FM is scattered on this topic. These new mirror less cameras are growing in sales faster than DSLRs, yet there is no one forum to discuss it. Since I don't own a Nikon or Canon my alternative is, you guessed it, the Alt Forum. There it seems to be more about discussions of obscure camera/lens combos than on the small, mirror less offerings that more and more people are interested in.



Mar 01, 2013 at 04:25 AM
 

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gdanmitchell
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Mirrorless/"rangefinder-style"/etc. forum?


Borderlight, I think you hit on the problem with parking mirrorless cameras in the ALT forum. ALT forums tend towards focusing on putting old gear to use - either using older cameras or putting older lenses on newer bodies. On the other hand, the mirrorless phenomenon is, in some ways, the newest of the new rather than just and old ALT approach. The fit isn't comfortable...

Dan



Mar 01, 2013 at 06:28 AM
borderlight
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Mirrorless/"rangefinder-style"/etc. forum?


Right, so who is going to bring this to Fred's attention?

BTW 1: Canon & Nikon have not been early players in the development of the recent mirrorless camera. Epson, Olympus, Sigma, and Sony are way ahead of them. These companies need to be represented in one forum.

BTW 2: I have misspelled the word "mirrorless" enough times to get a citation. My iMac divided "mirror" and "less" indicating "mirrorless" wasn't a word and underlined it in red if I insisted it was. Bad Apple. Anyway, the real distinction between an SLR and a rangefinder is the mirror or lack of one. The lines are further blurred because a simple P&S camera has morphed into something that could be associated with a rangefinder design. That's why "rangefinder style" is a little off course to me.



Mar 01, 2013 at 01:34 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Mirrorless/"rangefinder-style"/etc. forum?


About "rangefinder style" - no term works perfectly for these new cameras, and I've seen fine arguments for about a half dozen or more.

Technically - to the extent that it matters - a "rangefinder" camera uses a (surprise!) rangefinder to assist with focus. This typically superimposes to incoming images from different points on the front of the camera and as you focus one shifts position, and when they are perfectly superimposed you have focused correctly. More or less.

Some folks are adamant that the term "rangefinder" should not be applied to newer digital cameras that otherwise try to somewhat build on the legacy of rangefinder film cameras. I understand their (slightly geeky and perhaps a bit obsessive) point. There are at least a couple of worthy counterarguments, whether or not you chose to accept them in the end:

1. While these cameras do not use the particular range-finding mechanism of the film rangefinder cameras, they do "find ranges" in an alternate manner.

2. In addition, in many cases the goal of the newer cameras is to provide the functionality of those older rangefinder film cameras but using newer digital technologies. So, in functional terms, they (can) end up being used in much the same way. In fact, lots of folks who used film rangefinder cameras and loved them are looking to precisely this sort of digital camera as a more modern replacement for their film rangefinder cameras.

3. While boundaries can be a bit fuzzy, the term "rangefinder" has a broader but well known meaning that goes beyond the particular mechanism of focusing. This includes: smaller (generally) size, no pentaprism, able to use small-ish lenses, potentially very high image quality, suitable for certain types of on-the-go shooting such as street photography and more.

So, while I know about EVIL, EVF (sometimes), and mirrorless and other terms for these cameras, both "rangefinder style" and "digital rangefinder" also work and I think we all know what the terms refer to and understand that both the terms and the cameras themselves tend to reflect the heritage of film rangefinders.

In any case, I sort of feel that what we call these cameras is a pretty peripheral issue at this point. (Though I suppose someone would have to come up with a forum name. Glad its not me! ;-)

Dan



Mar 02, 2013 at 06:58 PM
borderlight
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Mirrorless/"rangefinder-style"/etc. forum?


I know, I used to own a Leica M6. Rangefinder-style is a category that is neither here nor there. It covers enough bases to satisfiy the general public without going into much detail or having to be technically accurate. Everybody who owns one of these cameras, including me, can be temporarily fooled into thinking they are part of the red dot legacy ....well, sort of.

In other news, I am with you on creating a new forum as I said. I would link this topic to Fred for better traction.



Mar 03, 2013 at 03:02 PM
GC5
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Mirrorless/"rangefinder-style"/etc. forum?



I agree a mirrorless forum might be a good idea. Alt seems to cover it fairly well though.



Mar 12, 2013 at 02:34 PM





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