This lens looks like it has smoother foreground bokeh and busier background bokeh, the trademark of a slightly overcorrected SA lens. The Rokkor 58/1.2 has smoother background bokeh and busier foreground bokeh, slightly undercorrected SA lens. Rokkor's bokeh circles are more cat eye but the lens gets very sharp stopped down. Surprised Noct Nikkor which is supposed to be similar design isn't very sharp stopped down.
the noct-Nikkor is one of the two fast 50s I've not shot with, (adaptable to Canon/NEX) the other being the new Summilux ASPH.
They are both too expensive. I've always been more than excited to try them. I just have't had $3-4k to spend on one (and when I did, I was on the 5D2 -so, no Summilux)
wayne seltzer wrote:
Rokkor's bokeh circles are more cat eye but the lens gets very sharp stopped down. Surprised Noct Nikkor which is supposed to be similar design isn't very sharp stopped down.
Cat eye bokeh is due to mechanical vignette (or cutoff). I think the rear element of the Rokkor would be a bit bigger than the Noct.
As far as focus screens, isn't a split prism with a micro prism collar, the best of both?
As far as the desirability of the Noct Nikkor 58, I thought this lens got really popular when most DSLR's were APS-C. With the APS-C DSLRs, people who were in love with the 85mm focal length for portraits on their 35mm film SLRs could get equivalence on their DSLRs with the 58/1.2. I remember a lot of people saying the 50's were too short for portraits on their APS-C cameras. I just assumed the popularity of this lens would have declined with the advent of FF SLR's. I'm not sure whether or not the prices reflect this.
Feb 25, 2013 at 05:25 PM
Steve Spencer Online • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
wayne seltzer wrote:
This lens looks like it has smoother foreground bokeh and busier background bokeh, the trademark of a slightly overcorrected SA lens. The Rokkor 58/1.2 has smoother background bokeh and busier foreground bokeh, slightly undercorrected SA lens. Rokkor's bokeh circles are more cat eye but the lens gets very sharp stopped down. Surprised Noct Nikkor which is supposed to be similar design isn't very sharp stopped down.
I think the reputation of the Noct Nikkor not being very sharp stopped down is partly because of a combination of field curvature and focus shift. The lens has a fair amount of focus shift and a fair amount of field curvature. If you don't correct for the focus shift when you stop down, you get less than optimal sharpness in the centre, but better sharpness in the corners. This may be optimal for the whole frame, but less than optimal for the centre.This is just a theory, but the lens does have both focus shift and field curvature making it more challenging than a typical lens to use.
Feb 25, 2013 at 07:00 PM
Steve Spencer Online • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
Jeff Kott wrote:
Interesting thread. A couple of comments.
As far as focus screens, isn't a split prism with a micro prism collar, the best of both?
As far as the desirability of the Noct Nikkor 58, I thought this lens got really popular when most DSLR's were APS-C. With the APS-C DSLRs, people who were in love with the 85mm focal length for portraits on their 35mm film SLRs could get equivalence on their DSLRs with the 58/1.2. I remember a lot of people saying the 50's were too short for portraits on their APS-C cameras. I just assumed the popularity of this lens would have declined with the advent of FF SLR's. I'm not sure whether or not the prices reflect this....Show more →
I think you may be right for at least part of the reason the lens was popular to begin with, but 58mm on FF is a very nice focal length as well. In the Nikon realm there was nothing like that when APS-C sensor were all there were. The 35mm f/1.4 AiS is quite glowy wide open and although very nice stopped down, nothing really at all like the Noct Nikkor on full frame and at that time the 35 f/1.4G wasn't around yet. So, the Noct Nikkor makes a nice ultra fast long normal on FF that a lot of people are likely to want and a nice fast portrait lens on APS-C, so it filled an important niche for APS-C and still fills a different but also important niche (at least to some) on FF.
Jeff Kott wrote:
Interesting thread. A couple of comments.
As far as focus screens, isn't a split prism with a micro prism collar, the best of both?
Before Katz eye or any 3rd party suppliers, I've manually converted various types of focus screen for my digital rebel. The best one for MF is the precision matt screen. The split prism with a micro prism collar sounds ideal, but it will black out once you stopped down to f4 or so. The micro prism one has same problem, too. Katz eye screen is actually the K3 screen from Nikon. It will not easily get dark, but with a cost of less accuracy @ f/2 and up. Not ideal for extreme fast lenses.
wayne seltzer wrote:
Surprised Noct Nikkor which is supposed to be similar design isn't very sharp stopped down.
At the same time, Nikon produced these AI normal lenses: 50/1.2, 1.4, 1.8, 1.8 E series, and an ƒ/2, a 55/1.2 for a while and the NOCT; most temporally overlapping the others in production.
Perhaps they divided the optimal performance over several lenses for a reason? Technical? Expansion of lens sales depending upon different needs? Makes designs simpler since each one had its specific role? Who knows. Different design philosophy.
Lens designers choose 55mm and 58mm as easier focal lengths to design a fast high performing 50ish lens usually for portraits. Zeiss picked 55mm for its upcoming high performance 50ish lens. The lack of SA/coma and higher contrast wide open at f1.4 blows these old time fast 50's away. Can't wait for that lens to be available.
wayne seltzer wrote:
Lens designers choose 55mm and 58mm as easier focal lengths to design a fast high performing 50ish lens usually for portraits. Zeiss picked 55mm for its upcoming high performance 50ish lens. The lack of SA/coma and higher contrast wide open at f1.4 blows these old time fast 50's away. Can't wait for that lens to be available.
Yes, the latest video form Zeiss makes me thinking about selling my 50 lux E60. Wanna to be the first one to get it?
They will all up their game post haste, with 50MP+ FF sensors on the horizon. Probably why we're seeing several Nikon patents for fast normals (two 50/1.2 and a 58/1.2 as well). The Canon fast primes are way overdue for such a refresh and will all probably be in that league. So don't go run off blowing $5k on the Zeiss and bitch about lack of AF.....
Just look at the Sigma 35/1.4. Given their track record, it was a stunning surprise from build to performance.
I've shot with the Noct-Nikkor 58/1.2 Ai-S quite extensively for several years. I don't shoot brick walls or test patterns so I don't have a lot of technical things to say about it except that it does get the job done when it's dark. All the below shots were hand held and shot at either f/1.2 or f/2.
I would also add that I've shot the same kind of shots with a wide variety of other manual focus Nikkors so I think the bottom line is that it's all a matter of practice and getting comfortable/confident with a particular lens.
Dont think any ZA lens is good investment. Most of them is from optical point of view really nice, but built like plastic can. Im quite positive that ZE/ZF or Leica R will outlive them, cause they will work when these wont..
But than, thats me and Im still waiting for digital R6.2 ..
