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Archive 2013 · Finally Getting in the Door

a.RodriguezPix
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p.2 #1 · Finally Getting in the Door

justruss wrote:
OK, buddy, whatever you say...

The OP comes in and asks for advice on what to get for around $1,000, and you suggest a kit that comes in around double that price-- along with a bunch of unexplained links--and then say you expect the OP to whittle down your seemingly arbitrary kit suggestion because he's mentally capable of making a decision.

It's silly because the OP asked for two limiting/deciding factors: price, landscape/wife images. You've basically ignored what is probably the single most important part of what the OP asked about. You might as well have posted links to all the gear...Show more →

meh, none of your concern what i've owned pal, but thanks. ok, ok, a fine and very well made canon 5D ebayed, of course negative $600 USD, do the search bub, and well the 17-40mm is a far stretch, but me thinks it can be had? the 5d classic and the 50mm 1.8 and 85mm 1.8 are an excellent combo, sure its not prime, lol prime, for landscaping, however, many users and landscapers may disagree with that fact, k, is that k with you jr? kk scram, amscray, choo,shoo, go awy, troll elsewhere, and let us stop this spam, nuff said. i am done. rant all you want, i am done. i will laugh and read your droll replies, but i am much to good to respond

oh, and since you love me, i own the nikon d700 now, but i miss my 5d, 5d mk2 and my zeiss 35mm 1.4 ze, and 21mm 2.8 ze, 135mm f/2.50mm 1.8,ef 70-200mm f/4 older, and a plethora of others, go spam my flickr and hit search

since you called me out cowboy

was i any good, am i any good enough, is anyone regardless of their cache

ill be ur huckleberry pardner

http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=canon+zeiss&w=67365062%40N06

Feb 24, 2013 at 06:48 AM

justruss
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p.2 #2 · Finally Getting in the Door

a.Rod: I think we got off to the wrong start. Let's try again. We essentially agree on camera choice, and even some of the lens choices.

OP: If you want to go FF, the 5D is a bargain, and with the right lens choices you can stay on budget and accomplish what you want.

You might be able to come in a little cheaper, with more lens flexibility, if you go the crop/APS-C route, as others have suggested. But I think that if landscape is a priority, the advantages of FF (mainly pixel size/density/diffraction) outweigh the benefits of going with an APS-C camera and EF-s lenses. And if you continue to take this hobby seriously, a 5D will let you strengthen your gear by focusing on lenses for additional purchases.... at which point a 5D2, 6D, or 5D3 may be a pretty cheap upgrade in the future.

Feb 24, 2013 at 07:37 AM

Yakim Peled
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p.2 #3 · Finally Getting in the Door

The 5D has an excellent sensor but anti-dust system and LV can make life very easy for a novice.

Happy shooting,
Yakim.

Feb 24, 2013 at 07:40 AM

justruss
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p.2 #4 · Finally Getting in the Door

Yakim Peled wrote:
The 5D has an excellent sensor but anti-dust system and LV can make life very easy for a novice.

Happy shooting,
Yakim.

Two very good points-- particularly for landscape.

Here's a wrench in the works: If the OP is going to go with an APS-C based camera, the OP should consider a mirrorless camera. I'd skip the Fuji XTrans for now for a landscape-focused shooter (I own and love that camera, but low-iso landscapes are a weakness; see: water color), but a NEX would be small, light, high resolution, and take all kinds of lenses (some cheap and very good) that would make landscape + portraiture perfectly served.

I think if I were in the OP's shoes, I'd go for mirrorless or FF DSLR given the choice. The Canon M (or successor) could also be a great option on a budget, though the pretty wacky AF and other complaints would give me pause.

Feb 24, 2013 at 07:47 AM

CW100
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p.2 #5 · Finally Getting in the Door

saneproduction wrote:
A used t2i with the 18-55 IS and 55-250 IS kit lenses for as cheap as possible. Add a sigma 30 1.4 if you need low light shooting. That is what I got my dad. I set my brother up with a used 40D which is also a good choice. A used 60D could work, but is taking up a lot of your budget that could go to lenses.

sounds like a good plan

Feb 24, 2013 at 08:35 AM

timbop
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p.2 #6 · Finally Getting in the Door

OP, as mentioned $1000 is a good start but you obviously have to choose carefully to get all the capability you need. One thing you will learn from experience is that the lenses make a much bigger impact on your results and capabilities than the camera itself does; that is counterintuitive for novices but it is very much true. Therefore, I would suggest not spending more than half of your budget on the camera body itself. While the $3000+ bodies do give improvements in image quality over $500 ones, that improvement is definitely not 6x better - those bodies are much more expensive for their autofocus and other features that won't necessarily help you. So, I would agree with the posters who suggested a rebel, preferably used to save cash. As long as you stay away from fleabay and shop here on the B&S forum, you'll be fine buying used.

So, what I suggest and why:
a book/dvd - Reardless of what gear you get, you will be unhappy with the results until you learn some basic principles and understand what settings apply when. The "magic lantern" or "digital rebel field guide" books are very good, and give suggestions for what settings to use in particular applications/situations.
t21/t3i - excellent image quality and plenty of capabilities to learn on for years
18-55IS mark 2 kit lens - good image quality; there are better lenses out there but it is very good for the price/performance ratio. This lens would fit the bill for general purpose and wide landscape, covering fairly wide angle to medium range. Can also be used for full body portraits down to waist-up (1/2) portraits. The image stabilizer will help in lower light with still subjects, as well as while you develop your technique.
55-250IS - a very good lens, covers from medium telephoto to semilong telephoto. Will give you plenty of reach for animals you can get closer to; more skitish animals/birds will eventually require a longer lens or improved stalking techniques, but 250mm gives very good reach. Can also use this lens for tighter portratiure (head and shoulders or tighter)
used 430ex or 320 ex flash - An absolute must for doing indoor shots if you want good results. Getting good results from flash also requires a little technique, but once you learn that you'll get some great results

Feb 24, 2013 at 09:06 AM

onegreatcity
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p.2 #7 · Finally Getting in the Door

15Bit wrote:
Yup, that's a hard setup to beat in terms of capability per dollar, though I would tend towards the 70-300mm IS rather than the 55-250mm.

I'll throw another vote for this set up. I've owned and used all of these items at one time or another except the 70-300 IS. It might come down to how comfortable you (the OP) is sourcing and purchasing used gear. If you started looking here on the B & S, look for established sellers with good feedback and ask for as much information as you need to feel comfortable. Good sellers with good gear are usually good communicators as well.

Again, have fun with whatever you choose!

Feb 24, 2013 at 09:24 AM

kbarrera
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p.2 #8 · Finally Getting in the Door

Oh boy! A beginner asking for advise on FM. This thread could go on for years. We were all where you are now.
You sound like a smart guy, so I'm not going to give you any advise. The only thing I can tell you is you're on the right track. Part of the fun of photography is discovering what you like and what you need. I started with a Nikon
D-40 and a cheap Sigma 70-300 zoom. My current setup is a 1d MK IV and a Canon 600 f/4 is II. Do the math. That's a lot of money. My point is I had a lot of fun as I moved up to what I have now. My skills increased as the quality of my equipment got better. It was a process. As I moved up, I bought and sold right here on FM.
I read a lot about wildlife photography which is what I love to do.
Point is have fun. Enjoy the ride. If you buy something you don't need, just sell it right here on Fm, then you'll have the money to buy something else, right here on FM.

I can tell you one thing. If you're in to photography, this is the best forum out there. I learned a lot, bought a lot and sold a lot here.

Al

Feb 24, 2013 at 09:35 AM

robbymack
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p.2 #9 · Finally Getting in the Door

Any of the nikons with the 24mp sensor are far better value for money than any of the canon rebels. That being said either takes perfectly fine pictures. If you can rent both for a few days each and see which feels best in your hands and which menu systems make the most sense to you and then just buy the camera with the kit lens. As you become more familiar with it you can then add lenses that fit what you want to do.

Feb 24, 2013 at 09:58 AM

dwerther
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p.2 #10 · Finally Getting in the Door

You have been presented with two tracks here and it is not clear how much you know about the difference between them. The very top of the Canon DSLR body decision flowchart is: Full Frame or APS-C ("crop") sensor. Given your stated subject matter if your journey into photography gets serious you will want a certain "look" to your images (which you will learn to "see") and you will eventually want a full frame body. But that may not be the best place to start.

The reason is because, on a budget, full frame begins and ends with the 5D series. (it makes no sense to consider the 1Ds series due to the weight). The original 5D series is in your price range and was a great camera in its day, but it lacks some features that you will want, such as a modern menu system, sensor cleaning, and live view. The 5D MkII is really the tool you need, but even used is out of your price range.

So if your budget is fixed then as many have said, a used APS-C body is the place to start. The top of that flowchart is Rebel vs. XXD series. For your subject matter the difference between those two is mostly just the physical size. If the Rebel series is large enough for you to work with comfortably then you should consider it. If not then the XXD series is what you want. I would not go back any farther than the 40D (and I own a 30D and think it is a great camera) or a T2i.

If you had said you will be shooting sports or wildlife including birds in flight then the recommendations would be different. But for landscapes and portraits the above will get you started.

Many lens recommendations have been made. Understand that in the Canon world, EF lenses will work on most any body, but EF-s lenses will not work on the full frame bodies. So just be aware that if you go the APS-C route when you decide to make the switch to full frame you will be selling/trading off your lenses as well as your camera body.

Given your budget you almost have to go the APS-C route in the Canon world. What it will teach you will distill your technique and your creative thinking to the point where you are either happy with the gear you have, or you decide to take it further and upgrade. By then you will know what you want and need to pursue your creative vision.

Have fun!

Feb 24, 2013 at 10:01 AM

skier860
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p.2 #11 · Finally Getting in the Door

The best advice is to shop here for used gear from established buyer/seller if you want to save some money. it will also let you get that lens that might be just out of reach at the "new" price. I have purchased items here that look and function as new. Good luck.

Feb 24, 2013 at 10:43 AM

Kolor-Pikker
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p.2 #12 · Finally Getting in the Door

I started on a freaken 400D, it produced razor sharp photos when you put any L glass on it, always had to disable Raw sharpening. T'was a great learning camera.

If you have to choose between better camera, or better lens, go for the lens. Just get some cheap used Canon by whatever means is more accessible to you and spend most of that grand on glass instead.

Feb 24, 2013 at 10:43 AM

Ralph Conway
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p.2 #13 · Finally Getting in the Door

Welcome

Feb 24, 2013 at 11:11 AM

EyeBrock
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p.2 #14 · Finally Getting in the Door

If I was starting all over again with $1000 I'd get a used Rebel/50D or a 5D with either a 40 2.8, the old 30 F2 or a 50 1.8. You might actually get a body and a faster/better made prime like the 50 1.4 within your budget. That said I found the 50 too long on a crop so a 30 F2 would be useful on a Rebel/50D.

I found that one lens to start with allows you to get to know your equipment. One body and one lens is more than enough to keep you busy for a bit and you will discover your own needs and future requirements from getting to know your first, basic setup.

I would go prime over zoom as I think you get more capability (bokeh, aperture choices, available light, depth-of-field etc) out of a cheaper prime than a cheaper zoom.

Feb 24, 2013 at 11:56 AM

outlawyer
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p.2 #15 · Finally Getting in the Door

Landscape and nature=5D, at least in my book. MA and LV are less important in this area, and unless you're printing wall size, the venerable 5D is a great landscape body. Paired with something like a 17-40, you'd be right on the cusp of your monetary limit, but you'd have a setup capable of most anything, especially if you add a 50 1.8 for low light.

Feb 24, 2013 at 12:04 PM

ultimaterowdy
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p.2 #16 · Finally Getting in the Door

T3i + kit lens (great deal): $450 http://shop.usa.canon.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10051_10051_283207_-1?WT.mc_id=C126149

Get a cheap but awesome prime lens: $250
http://shop.usa.canon.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10051_10051_269493_-1?WT.mc_id=C126149

that's $700. save the $300 for what you want next, after a month of shooting.

Feb 24, 2013 at 01:03 PM

SThom3095
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p.2 #17 · Finally Getting in the Door

Thanks everyone for the awesome responses! It is giving me a lot to think about it, and I appreciate the advice.

So, I'm sorry to mention Nikon over here in the Canon Forum... But what I'm hearing a lot of in this advice is that either a rebel or a 5D would be a good place for me to start. I do not really want to go the Rebel route, because I want a camera that I do not have to replace as soon, and I feel like I would end up wanting to replace the Rebel before the 5D. But I'm wondering how this compares to getting something like the Nikon D7000? The D7100 just came out, and so the D7000 is a great price. I feel like it is a step above something like a Rebel, and I can get it and a decent lens for my $1000.
What are peoples' thoughts on the D7000 vs the 5D? I really like the idea of going with Canon, but at my price range, the D7000 seems like a good option.

Feb 24, 2013 at 02:46 PM

SThom3095
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p.2 #18 · Finally Getting in the Door

Oh, and to address a couple things to help narrow the advice... I am definitely okay with buying used from reputable sellers on this site. That is what I plan on doing. Also, I have done a lot of research on the different cameras, but not as much on the lenses, so I do appreciate when people give explanations of the lenses they suggest. Thanks!

Feb 24, 2013 at 02:54 PM

15Bit
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p.2 #19 · Finally Getting in the Door

Probably not a great idea to bring up Nikon here right now

I would say that you would be best considering the choice between Canon and Nikon as a choice between systems rather than a choice between cameras. Check especially that your chosen system has the lenses, flashes etc you think you will want in the future, and compare prices. Then pick what suits you best.

Feb 24, 2013 at 03:07 PM

ComicDom1
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p.2 #20 · Finally Getting in the Door

SThom3095 wrote:
Thanks everyone for the awesome responses! It is giving me a lot to think about it, and I appreciate the advice.

So, I'm sorry to mention Nikon over here in the Canon Forum... But what I'm hearing a lot of in this advice is that either a rebel or a 5D would be a good place for me to start. I do not really want to go the Rebel route, because I want a camera that I do not have to replace as soon, and I feel like I would end up wanting to replace the Rebel before the 5D. But...Show more →
Nikon D7000 and 5D are two different animals. D7000 is more like a D300s for speed and crop sensor, Canon 5D has Image quality and full frame but is slower to focus and shoot with. 5D original if that is what you are referring to is more of a studio/ landscape type camera although I have shot sports with it a time or two.

Sounds like you want a newer camera with a warranty so why not just stick with something newer if that is where your head it at.

Also let me let in you in on a little secret. If you love photography lol and gear lol then eventually you will want a newer body and more lenses,

So if you are serious about photography, warm up your wallet and make sure you know where to find it.

Jason

Feb 24, 2013 at 03:19 PM

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