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Archive 2013 · Dynamic Range
  
 
AGeoJO
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Dynamic Range


Bruce, that shot was taken with fill-in flash I assume, correct? There is that catchlight in those folks' eyes. I was frankly surprised that the Nikon metering system of the D3X produced that much underexposure in the original image.


Feb 20, 2013 at 03:25 PM
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Dynamic Range


The camera I'd want would have enough dynamic range to shoot the above scene (first photo, not second) with the faces properly exposed and the sky not blown out.

I've done it before (can post examples too), but I'd rather not have to pull the faces out of shadow because they are the most important part of the image IMO.



Feb 20, 2013 at 03:42 PM
goosemang
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Dynamic Range


AGeoJO wrote:
Bruce, that shot was taken with fill-in flash I assume, correct? There is that catchlight in those folks' eyes. I was frankly surprised that the Nikon metering system of the D3X produced that much underexposure in the original image.


this is the thing... even the best photographer in the world takes one on the chin now and again because the camera reads something strangely.

i think it's getting on dicey ground when we start to say the only people who want DR are sloppy photographers who don't know their cameras or don't light properly, etc. fact of the matter is the nikon sensor will CYA in a situation like this, and canon would not.

of course since canon's metering works i guess he would have saved the shot that way



Feb 20, 2013 at 03:48 PM
goosemang
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Dynamic Range


i mean you know, six of one, half dozen of another

how many shots to you save with the 5d3 AF system that the d800 would miss? it all shakes out in the end



Feb 20, 2013 at 03:49 PM
chez
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Dynamic Range


dhphoto wrote:
Want, not need.

Some (not all) of the percieved need for extra DR is pure laziness so users can manipulate a file more in PP rather than light it properly, or like Bruce's example to recover a file that was badly exposed (notice that the overall exposure of the 'corrected' version is much brighter, not just the dark areas, bringing up the exposure in processing would have helped the faces a great deal by itself)

dhphoto, from your perspective...what is a need? Autofocus accuracy...we used to shoot just fine using manual focus. High ISO...I remember when ASA 400 was high. Better noise handling...today's DSLR are miles ahead of the old film day. What then is a need for you?



Feb 20, 2013 at 03:56 PM
dhphoto
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Dynamic Range


chez wrote:
dhphoto, from your perspective...what is a need? Autofocus accuracy...we used to shoot just fine using manual focus. High ISO...I remember when ASA 400 was high. Better noise handling...today's DSLR are miles ahead of the old film day. What then is a need for you?


A need is by definition something you can't do without.

More Dynamic Range is not a need, it's something some photographers think they want out of their camera sensors, almost as if they can't do the job properly otherwise.

In photographic terms we haven't been limited by not having Nikon's current of dynamic range all these years, we worked round it or, more likely we never even noticed. We just did the job with the tools available.

It's like NEEDING ten frames per second, you don't, you might want it, put the job can be done without.



Feb 20, 2013 at 04:01 PM
alundeb
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Dynamic Range


Luckily I don't need to make photographs.


Feb 20, 2013 at 04:11 PM
chez
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Dynamic Range


dhphoto wrote:
A need is by definition something you can't do without.

More Dynamic Range is not a need, it's something some photographers think they want out of their camera sensors, almost as if they can't do the job properly otherwise.

In photographic terms we haven't been limited by not having Nikon's current of dynamic range all these years, we worked round it or, more likely we never even noticed. We just did the job with the tools available.

It's like NEEDING ten frames per second, you don't, you might want it, put the job can be done without.



Didn't answer the question. From you perspective...what is a need in your current camera? We used to do the job with an AE-1 and Kodachrome. We used to do the job with a 10D. We used to do the job with a 5D. Why are you not still shooting with these...what in your current camera is you NEEDS?



Feb 20, 2013 at 04:14 PM
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Dynamic Range


dhphoto wrote:
A need is by definition something you can't do without.

More Dynamic Range is not a need, it's something some photographers think they want out of their camera sensors, almost as if they can't do the job properly otherwise.

With any device like a camera, 'need' is a relative term. I mean, we don't 'need' a camera in the first place, if you want to use that version of the word.

It is a need for _some_ photos or _some_ scenes.

It's like having a car that gets you to work 98% of the time. Is that enough? Most people will remember the one time out of fifty that it broke far more than the 49 times it got them there. And if that one time it broke was when you were supposed to give an important presentation, you might even decide you want a new, more reliable car because of it.



Feb 20, 2013 at 04:17 PM
dhphoto
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Dynamic Range


I did answer the question.

What you all do is *want* these features, you don't actually need them in any particular circumstance, they would just (in your minds) be good or nice to have.

They are not needs, they are wants.



Feb 20, 2013 at 04:20 PM
 

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MayaTlab
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Dynamic Range


dhphoto, you wrote this in another thread :

"The 5D3 has made quite a big difference in the way I approach some assignments.

I can use far more ambient light and worry less about using flash as the high ISO perfrmance is so good. I'm quite happy to shoot RAW at 1600 ISO and remove the noise in LR4. Even a bit higher if need be.

Also the inbuilt two-way level and dual card slots are just marvellous at the top of a ladder or tripod or hanging from gantries the way I have to, the body is so much smaller and more convenient than my 1Ds3 for this. Being able to see the level and all the settings from a distance away on the excellent LCD is just great.

In my line of work it has made really quite a big difference to the results. "

Were all these needs or wants ?



Feb 20, 2013 at 04:31 PM
dhphoto
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Dynamic Range


MayaTlab wrote:
dhphoto, you wrote this in another thread :

"The 5D3 has made quite a big difference in the way I approach some assignments.

I can use far more ambient light and worry less about using flash as the high ISO perfrmance is so good. I'm quite happy to shoot RAW at 1600 ISO and remove the noise in LR4. Even a bit higher if need be.

Also the inbuilt two-way level and dual card slots are just marvellous at the top of a ladder or tripod or hanging from gantries the way I have to, the body is so much smaller and more
...Show more

They were nice additions to the way I work (as I said). I have managed for over three decades in the pro photo business without them.

They weren't things I actually needed, they were and are just useful additions, why do you have such a problem understanding?



Feb 20, 2013 at 04:34 PM
Jeff Nolten
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Dynamic Range


chez wrote:
... From you perspective...what is a need in your current camera? We used to do the job with an AE-1 and Kodachrome. We used to do the job with a 10D. We used to do the job with a 5D. Why are you not still shooting with these...what in your current camera is you NEEDS?


5Dc. It got rid of film and the dependance on chemical post processing and the need to pack 10 rolls of film. It was full frame so my lenses worked as they should, it was as responsive as my film cameras were (as compared to my 10D). It produced clean, beautiful images, if I did my job, that exceeded my print/display needs. Everything since then has been nice to have improvements that I like but don't necessarily need. I traded up because I could afford to.

I believe Bruce Swale's image pair are the same Nikon shot PP'd to bring up the faces. Its pretty impressive. It would be nice to have that dynamic range but I was happy with the DR of my 5Dc and my new 5D3 should do better. Back with my film camera the longest lens I could afford was 300 mm. I always wanted (needed ) more. Now I have a 100-400 either on crop or FF and still want more. If I traded my car for a 600 would I be satisfied? "I'm satisfied with my 100-400." I say to myself mindfully.



Feb 20, 2013 at 04:35 PM
MayaTlab
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Dynamic Range


dhphoto wrote:
They weren't things I actually needed, they were and are just useful additions, why do you have such a problem understanding?


Because apparently you seem to have a hard time figuring out people feel the exact same way about increased dynamic range and would benefit sometimes in terms of final results, sometimes in terms of workflow, sometimes in terms of photographic opportunities from it.

Personally, I could very well do without in-built levelometers. And yet you don't see me roaming Fredmiranda constantly telling people how levelometers are useless for talented photographers.



Feb 20, 2013 at 04:43 PM
Bruce Sawle
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Dynamic Range


AGeoJO wrote:
Bruce, that shot was taken with fill-in flash I assume, correct? There is that catchlight in those folks' eyes. I was frankly surprised that the Nikon metering system of the D3X produced that much underexposure in the original image.



I had 2 lights one for fill the other as the main. The fill light fired.



Feb 20, 2013 at 04:45 PM
dhphoto
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Dynamic Range


MayaTlab wrote:
Because apparently you seem to have a hard time figuring out people feel the exact same way about increased dynamic range and would benefit sometimes in terms of final results, sometimes in terms of workflow, sometimes in terms of photographic opportunities from it.

Personally, I could very well do without in-built levelometers. And yet you don't see me roaming Fredmiranda constantly telling people how levelometers are useless for talented photographers.


By your rather obtuse logic nobody would ever buy anything other than a D800 (or whatever is supposedly the best camera available) because every other camera is incapable of taking an image as perfectly as that can.

Wierd



Feb 20, 2013 at 04:47 PM
MayaTlab
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Dynamic Range


dhphoto wrote:
By your rather obtuse logic nobody would ever buy anything other than a D800 because every other camera is incapable of taking an image as perfectly as that can. Wierd


Did I write this ?



Feb 20, 2013 at 04:49 PM
alundeb
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Dynamic Range


MayaTlab wrote:
Did I write this ?


No. I don't understand either where dhphoto is heading with this.



Feb 20, 2013 at 04:51 PM
saneproduction
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Dynamic Range


Bruce Sawle wrote:
I had 2 lights one for fill the other as the main. The fill light fired.


I would say your example is misleading to a casual reader



Feb 20, 2013 at 04:51 PM
dhphoto
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Dynamic Range


alundeb wrote:
No. I don't understand either where dhphoto is heading with this.


I'm not 'heading' anywhere.

I'm trying to explain that 'want' is not the same as 'need'.

At least I was, rather bored of it now.



Feb 20, 2013 at 04:54 PM
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