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Archive 2013 · PC to Mac - your thoughts?
  
 
RustyBug
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p.3 #1 · PC to Mac - your thoughts?


That's kinda interesting. I found XP Pro to be extremely stable for a very long time, and was my fav OS. The only reason I switched from it at all was due to eventual support updates relative to other software in use. I've never experienced the kind of OS problems from PC except for those silly ME & 98 versions. 95 was good for me, and XP Pro was also. No issues with Vista/Win 7 to speak of either. Win 8 demo was a mess for me @ user interface (trying to go all app/Mac-like ... will revisit with classic shell if I do update to Win 8.

In my case, the nearest Mac store is about 90-100 miles away, so heralds of Mac's customer service has lesser value there for me. That and the fact that Mac never made good on my daughter's Mac. It was a total economic loss ... OUCH !!! So much for being impressed by their Customer Service or their superior product.

But, none of that (good, bad or ugly) addresses an answer to the OP question @ Mac delivering a compelling performance boost for LR on Mac being significantly greater than LR on PC is capable of ... or how Mac is configured differently to achieve such compelling performance gains (if they actually exist) when using LR.





Edited on Feb 21, 2013 at 05:03 PM · View previous versions



Feb 21, 2013 at 07:56 AM
aubsxc
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p.3 #2 · PC to Mac - your thoughts?


RustyBug wrote:
But, none of that (good, bad or ugly) addresses an answer to the OP question @ Mac delivering a compelling performance boost for LR on Mac being significantly greater than LR on PC is capable of ... or how Mac is configured differently to achieve such compelling performance gains (if they actually exist) when using LR.




I think the OP was asking if the LR4 speed issues that people are experiencing could be resolved by switching to Mac OS. And as some people have pointed out, the issue is not with Windows or Mac OS, but with coding issues in LR4 which have been discussed extensively in these forums.

Also, the OP was asking if he could achieve performance gains by moving from a PC to a Mac. Some Apple users apparently believe that Apple computers run faster than similarly specced PCs (see Bifurcator's posts in this thread as an example, where he claims that a 2008 MacPro will perform similarly to a PC built using hardware that is 4 years newer). This, of course, is not true, but if people repeat this nonsense enough times people tend to believe it. So perhaps the OP had read claims like this previously which prompted him to ask the question.



Feb 21, 2013 at 01:15 PM
RustyBug
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p.3 #3 · PC to Mac - your thoughts?


Okay ... well, that was kinda my question / point that "Mac Love" doesn't really address why LR would run better on a Mac than on a PC. My family "loves" their Mac products, which for the money paid, I'm glad of that.

However, when it came time to get a hand-held tablet, the (original) I-Pad was too large, so we got Kindle Fire for it's size. Had I-Pad been the smaller version that has since released, we would have gone with the I-Pad. My point here is that even with all the "Mac Love", the stark reality is that the Mac offering didn't have the spec (i.e. size) that we wanted ... and all the "Mac Love" in the world couldn't change that fact.

To me, the same "Mac Love" (which I get that part) gets repeatedly mentioned whenever someone asks about performance, but I've yet to see an objective "spec for spec" performance case presented that makes a compelling reason for changing to Mac due to significant performance gains.

It would be nice for once to have a Mac base simply state that "spec for spec" the performance will be similar (or show an equal spec performance gain for LR/PS), but the "Mac Love" makes it worth the change. I'd really hate to spend out that kind of $$$ and get the same performance. I get that for some folks, the "Mac Love" reasons are very compelling ... which is all good, but that still isn't a significant performance difference for those who are asking about performance gains.

The smaller I-Pad will likely be in our future if our Kindles die or get passed along, but I still haven't realized a compelling performance gain reasoning for switching over to Mac (hardware & software) computing (LR/PS/Large Database) for performance. For "stand alone" products that don't require a revamp of software purchases, Mac does okay around my family. However, needing to buy new software in addition to the premium for the hardware, just doesn't make it very attractive to switch if you are well vested into PC software, imo. For me, those are some VERY COMPELLING $$$ to stay with PC.

I'm not ragging on Mac, per se ... just it is a very costly switch, for nominal/no performance gain,



Feb 21, 2013 at 03:23 PM
15Bit
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p.3 #4 · PC to Mac - your thoughts?


Personally i tend to avoid Apple products on 2 bases:

The first is that they cost a premium to buy, and in the case of the Mac line performance is below that of an equivalent PC with a large sacrifice in hardware flexibility. The OS is undoubtedly very good, but it doesn't make up for these negatives in my view.

The second is that i dislike their business model. I don't like that they retain such a high level of control over their devices, so that i feel almost that i am almost renting rather than buying from them. I don't like that i can't replace batteries or that it is basically mandatory that you buy Applecare if you want any form of support after the warranty expires. I know too many people with excellent condition 2 year old devices that they had to throw away because the battery died and Apple told them to buy a new one rather than repair.

That said, they make very good devices, and have undoubtedly changed consumer electronics for the better - much of what they have done in the last 10 years has been revolutionary rather than evolutionary (the iPod and iPhone lines in particular). We have 2 iPods in our house, because they are very good products. But i wouldn't buy anything beyond the "disposable" price bracket because i know thats what Apple devices are once the batteries die.



Feb 21, 2013 at 04:14 PM
Sal Baker
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p.3 #5 · PC to Mac - your thoughts?


15Bit wrote:
Personally i tend to avoid Apple products on 2 bases:

The first is that they cost a premium to buy, and in the case of the Mac line performance is below that of an equivalent PC with a large sacrifice in hardware flexibility. The OS is undoubtedly very good, but it doesn't make up for these negatives in my view.

The second is that i dislike their business model. I don't like that they retain such a high level of control over their devices, so that i feel almost that i am almost renting rather than buying from them. I
...Show more

Apple Care is just an extended warranty, of course you can can get excellent support after the warranty expires like any other product. I've had several cases where Apple covered repairs after Apple Care expired. One case was my iPad that the cat pushed to a hard tile floor. The screen was shattered. I took it to the Apple Store, told them what happened, and they gave me a brand new iPad for free. I would call that great service.

As to batteries being worn out, I don't see how this relevant to a discussion of desktop computing. I've never had a dead battery in any of my Mac Pros.

Sal



Feb 21, 2013 at 06:01 PM
RustyBug
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p.3 #6 · PC to Mac - your thoughts?


Blue screen of death on my daughter's Mac ... they wouldn't do squat for her, we had to "eat it" as they said a new one was the only option.


Feb 21, 2013 at 06:40 PM
Sal Baker
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p.3 #7 · PC to Mac - your thoughts?


RustyBug wrote:
Blue screen of death on my daughter's Mac ... they wouldn't do squat for her, we had to "eat it" as they said a new one was the only option.


Sounds like a very peculiar Apple Store that would refuse a repair. They usually give you a new computer if it can't be fixed.

Sorry about your bad experience, but it certainly isn't consistent with my personal history and industry reports...

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9231399/Apple_keeps_top_spot_in_customer_satisfaction

Sal



Feb 21, 2013 at 08:28 PM
abqnmusa
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p.3 #8 · PC to Mac - your thoughts?


I do not believe that story. There is more to the story than that.
They might refuse to work on your OS if you had a bunch of illegal software, or something.

Apple makes it simple to fix your OS IF you make a recovery disc, or recovery USB stick.



Feb 21, 2013 at 08:58 PM
OntheRez
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p.3 #9 · PC to Mac - your thoughts?


Just another data point to add to your collection. I've literally used everything from a PDP 9 to a Cray to a PC-DOS 1.0 IBM to a current version MacPro. I've also run UNIX and Linux on a variety of platforms. They all work (though obviously I haven't done image processing on all the above.) The question turns on how you like to work (and I suspect how your mind organizes and solves problems) and what you want to do.

I currently use the MacPro because I find that I don't have to muck about with it much to get it to run well. I never found that to be true thru multiple versions of Windows. (I admit to not having used Microsoft's latest version.) It's not that I can't, I've just spent too much of my life in the innards of various boxes and really would rather do photo processing. Also the argument that Macs are more expensive isn't as valid as most would suggest. Similarly equipped machines are within 10-15% of each other unless you do the build your own after searching for the best possible deal anywhere. Again, what do you want to spend your time doing?

My take is to get a version or 2 back MacPro with dual Quad processors, max RAM, and whatever was the good graphics card of the moment. I've done business with Power Max for 10-12 years. They have an excellent stock of older gear and are just good to do business with.

If you installed a small SSD as the boot and application drive and used the MacPro slots in a RAID configuration for your images it would be very slick. I've had excellent product and service with OWC for drives, RAM, and other gear.

Frankly either platform will work. I prefer the OS X interface with its Berkeley UNIX guts that I can tinker with if I really want to, though I seldom do. For me after all these years, I don't want to work a computer, I want to deal with my task. OS X even with all of the negatives I can list about it gets the job done the best.

Robert



Feb 21, 2013 at 09:33 PM
RustyBug
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p.3 #10 · PC to Mac - your thoughts?


I don't know all the details, as she was away at college. All I know is that she couldn't get Apple to help her. Isn't that the reason I paid big bucks and bought her a Mac ... because it is supposed to be so issue free and impervious, since I wouldn't be around to help her if she did have issues. That, and that their customer service is allegedly superior when you do have an issue.

She spent the rest of the semester working from the library, until we could get her a replacement PC. That was several years ago, and her PC is still going strong ever since. Whether or not you choose to believe it is beyond my control. Cyberworld is full of BS, so I understand your skepticism.



Feb 21, 2013 at 09:34 PM
 

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OntheRez
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p.3 #11 · PC to Mac - your thoughts?


RustyBug wrote:
I don't know all the details, as she was away at college. All I know is that she couldn't get Apple to help her. Isn't that the reason I paid big bucks and bought her a Mac ... because it is supposed to be so issue free and impervious, since I wouldn't be around to help her if she did have issues. That, and that their customer service is allegedly superior when you do have an issue.

She spent the rest of the semester working from the library, until we could get her a replacement PC. That was several years ago,
...Show more

Rusty,

Don't know your details but have no doubt that the experience is accurate. I've twice in 20+ years of using Macs had to "raise hell on up the chain" to solve a problem. Both times were in the Job's interregnum, but I got results by continuing to push up the line. Again, don't know what you're dealing with, but I've always gotten Apple to "do the right thing" though on occasion it has taken some serious butt kicking.

Robert



Feb 21, 2013 at 09:46 PM
Brit-007
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p.3 #12 · PC to Mac - your thoughts?


A few years ago, I was running the 24" iMac. It developed an issue with the video card. The machine was 2.1/2 years old but had the apple care. They replaced the card and the issue was still there. They replaced again and still a problem. They gave me the option to either have the system board replaced or come in for a new machine.

After picking up a new machine they advised me to call support and get a rebate on the remaining warranty. On my laptop, the battery went after 18 months and they replaced it. Get a Dell with extended warranty and they will cover the machine only. If the battery dies then you have to purchase.

Overall there is better peace of mind with Apple Care. I am not bashing (OMG used the word) either but just stating that I have personally had enough of the Windows eco system and much prefer the Apple way. It works for me and gives me more time being productive.



Feb 21, 2013 at 09:58 PM
Sal Baker
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p.3 #13 · PC to Mac - your thoughts?


RustyBug wrote:
I don't know all the details, as she was away at college. All I know is that she couldn't get Apple to help her. Isn't that the reason I paid big bucks and bought her a Mac ... because it is supposed to be so issue free and impervious, since I wouldn't be around to help her if she did have issues. That, and that their customer service is allegedly superior when you do have an issue.

She spent the rest of the semester working from the library, until we could get her a replacement PC. That was several years ago,
...Show more

Was it under warranty? This sounds like she may have taken her computer to Joe's Campus Computer Repair. I've never heard of an Apple Store refusing to fix an Apple computer.

Sal



Feb 21, 2013 at 10:25 PM
RustyBug
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p.3 #14 · PC to Mac - your thoughts?


Well ... it came from Joe's Campus Computer Sales (i.e. school program). Whatever support system they had in place was what she had to contend with. Isn't that the whole "Go to school, buy Mac" mantra ... peace of mind for your kid who is a zillion miles away from home.

Sounds good on paper, but didn't pan out that way for us. Sorry, no more details ... too many kids, too many years.

I just know that she is very happy with her PC after having had a Mac ... likely rare/strange but true. Me, I never liked the Apple Computer when I was in school, but that was back when the monitors were still monochrome and the icons were too hard for me to decipher.

If I wasn't so deep into software, I "might" consider checking it out again, but by the time I would get a new Mac desktop and Mac laptop and all my software in a Mac version and Apple Care ... well, you do the math ... we are easily over $5K for ... ummm, no gain in performance that can't be achieved in PC. I hope you can see my perspective, here.

If I were starting "clean", I might feel very different about it, but the OP was talking about changing from PC (Xeon processors) to Mac ... a very expensive proposition, that I was just trying to figure out if it would result in actual performance gains worth such an expense.

Thanks for the helpful insight.

Edited on Feb 21, 2013 at 11:16 PM · View previous versions



Feb 21, 2013 at 10:58 PM
morganb4
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p.3 #15 · PC to Mac - your thoughts?


WAYCOOL wrote:
morganb4 whats your problem OP was asking about a switch asked if OSX was faster for Lightroom and was told the hardware ran the same and that people has problems under both and decided to make the switch anyway. What exactly did you find argumentative about my post?


Nothing. Thats why I said 'This' - was agreeing with you. OP asked a specific question about LR performance on a mac vs PC yet here we are again doing laps with the PC vs mac campaign. Didnt make myself very clear.


Edited on Feb 21, 2013 at 11:16 PM · View previous versions



Feb 21, 2013 at 11:11 PM
WAYCOOL
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p.3 #16 · PC to Mac - your thoughts?


Sorry guys I've read similar story's to RustyBugs while Apple customer care is generally awesome they are not 100% perfect. Give RustyBug a valued member of this community a break am sure he's telling the truth.

Funny thing Apple charges a premium for there products so can afford a improved level of customer service. When something goes wrong with one of their products the and it gets fixed free and with a smile the customer often feels like they've been done a great favor. Truth is they are just getting what they paid for upfront.

Say you pay $3000 for a mac and another vendor charges $2000 for the same level of performance. The same problem happens on both machines say bad video card. Apple fixes it free (because you've paid for customer service when you bought it) and the other vendor charges $300 to fix it because they sold the machine at a small margin in order to compete in the market. Your still up $700 dollars over the Apple product but feel ripped off for the repairs.

Remember it's great marketing by Apple but that customer service isn't a gift you have paid for it.



Feb 21, 2013 at 11:14 PM
Brit-007
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p.3 #17 · PC to Mac - your thoughts?


Actually no. Purchasing from the school give the student a better discount on purchasing. Support is still with the Apple Genius Bar. Even out of warranty they will do their best to fix if you want to pay for the fix.


Feb 21, 2013 at 11:14 PM
RustyBug
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p.3 #18 · PC to Mac - your thoughts?


WAYCOOL wrote:
Funny thing Apple charges a premium for there products so can afford a improved level of customer service. When something goes wrong with one of their products the and it gets fixed free and with a smile the customer often feels like they've been done a great favor. Truth is they are just getting what they paid for upfront.

Say you pay $3000 for a mac and another vendor charges $2000 for the same level of performance. The same problem happens on both machines say bad video card. Apple fixes it free (because you've paid for customer service when you
...Show more

Bingo !!!

There's no such thing as a free lunch ... but people sure do love it when you make them feel as though they've gotten one, even if they unwittingly (or wittingly) paid for it.



Feb 21, 2013 at 11:17 PM
morganb4
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p.3 #19 · PC to Mac - your thoughts?


Thats an interesting point actually and its seen not just here but all over the place - in an effort to keep prices down, service and warranty suffers but we don't see that when we pull out the wallet. Instead we just bitch about crap service when a clearly defective item will not be swapped by the shop any more and most be sent straight back to the manufacturer. Shops don't take responsibility for the goods they sell any more because our 'best quality at lowest price' mentality forces them not to.

10 years ago if I bought a camera from a shop and it went wrong the shop would usually swap it out. Now I have to mail it in to Canon, wait, wait, wait....tell me what value has the shop brought?

I paid $300 for my apple care and they replaced the 27" panel on it, on site and tested it extensively. Compare it vs lugging the thing back to the shop, taking time off work, fuel + other dicking around.... Its no brainer.

General rant over/

So we are basically discussing around the reliability point here.
Standardizing your build makes support easier
Implementing technology well and testing thoroughly makes a more stable machine
Grabbing bits from the shelf and jamming it all into a case with crap airflow and using badly specced RAM doesn't always make a stable build
Lots of people who profess to being able to make a good PC really just approach the build like Lego.
Win7 & Win8 have been a leveler - a Mac being more stable than a PC has probably got more to do with crappy PC builds.
Only Adobe can get more performance from Lightroom.



Feb 21, 2013 at 11:44 PM
RustyBug
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p.3 #20 · PC to Mac - your thoughts?


+1 @ the different business models ... each with their pros & cons for what makes sense for a varied consumer/application.

The two points @ "crappy PC builds" & "crap airflow" are something that could go a long way toward degrading PC reliability (thus elevating the opinion of Mac's reliability in public perception/opinion). But for those of us who do get "good PC builds" and "good airflow" ... that is likely a salient point @ why we experience good reliability with PC. (FMEA @ reliability engineering, etc.)

So, to the OP, who is using a workstation (industrial computing machine) ... I don't see how a switch to a Mac (personal computing machine) could possibly garner him a better build, nor a gain in performance that the platform change would garner @ LR ... within the limits of Adobe/LR as a possible constraint.

Imo, going from a workstation build to either a Mac or PC is potentially a backwards step in build reliability & performance. I think we lost sight of the OP being on a workstation rather than a consumer computer.

Edited on Feb 22, 2013 at 12:21 AM · View previous versions



Feb 22, 2013 at 12:05 AM
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