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Archive 2013 · 60d + 100-400L IS will it work?
  
 
dwweiche
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · 60d + 100-400L IS will it work?


Paul Mo wrote:
So why use a 7D with a 600mm for birding? Why not use a 5DC?


As I said, pixel density.



Feb 12, 2013 at 07:01 AM
RobDickinson
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · 60d + 100-400L IS will it work?


GWMT wrote:
Focal length of a lens remains the same the aspect ratio on a smaller sensor, is decreased?


Yes. The focal length is a physical property that doesnt change. And its always expressed thus, never multiplied for you.

What a crop sensor does is literally take a smaller view through the lens so you get a narrower field of view.

As if you had a lens 1.6 times the focal length.

For all real purposes you can just multiply the focal length by 1.6

So a 50mm lens on a FF body is about 85mm on a crop so for an equivalent view you need a wider lens (35mm or so)



Feb 12, 2013 at 07:03 AM
GWMT
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · 60d + 100-400L IS will it work?


I gave up shooting with my F1 and A1 for auto focus with the Elan IIE, sure miss velvia @40.
I"m not new to photography and have even been published a few times, just to busy over the years to get a DSLR, I'll go FF here soon, just wasn't sure crop frame cameras would support the L series lens.
I love to shoot anything and everything. Trying to learn DPP and my old PS Elements again.

Thank You for your time and patients



Feb 12, 2013 at 07:18 AM
RobDickinson
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · 60d + 100-400L IS will it work?


DPP is a nightmare study in usability.

Download a demo of lightroom



Feb 12, 2013 at 07:24 AM
Monito
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · 60d + 100-400L IS will it work?


Paul Mo wrote:
I think that's garbage - a poor way to explain it to new photogs. You are not just cropping a FF image you are gaining reach - or are all the world's birders incorrect in using 7D's to gain said reach and turn their superteles into something 'longer'?


You are confusing "reach" with the focal length effect of cropping.

"Reach" as a photographic technique is a combination of camera and lens because it is also dependent on sensor density.

Paul Mo wrote:
You are saying my 100 macro on my 5D3 is exactly as my 100 macro on my 1D3 - just cropped?


No, he is not saying that. But He was writing in general terms and was completely correct. Once you get specific about sensors in combination with a lens versus cropping, then you can only make specific statements. In any case, you have it backwards: The 1D3 crops the view that the 5D3 sees.

Paul Mo wrote:
That the 100 macro on the 1D3 is not 130mm?


Right. The 100 macro on the 1D3 is not 130 mm. It is and was and always will be 100 mm.

If you put an EF-S 60 macro on a crop factor camera, it is 60 mm. If you put some other manufacturer's 60 mm on a crop factor camera it will show the same view and make the same shot because, guess what, it is 60 mm.

When you put a Canon 24mm TS-E lens on a Leica S2 which has a 0.8 "crop factor", the lens does not magically become a 19 mm lens, it is still 24 mm. It is just that the S2 will show more of the image circle.



Feb 12, 2013 at 10:48 AM
Monito
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · 60d + 100-400L IS will it work?


RobDickinson wrote:
DPP is a nightmare study in usability. Download a demo of lightroom


Nope. DPP is very usable. It has some dinky user interface issues, but so does Lightroom.

All the same, the advice is good. Download a demo of Lightroom. After using DPP for years quite easily and handily, I gave Lightroom 4 a try and have been using it almost exclusively in preference to DPP ever since. The reason: Lightroom does keywording. (Note: I only do very basic adjustments in Lightroom and use Photoshop for retouching and fine tuning.)



Feb 12, 2013 at 10:54 AM
Monito
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · 60d + 100-400L IS will it work?


Welcome to FM, GWMT.

As stated, 100-400L works very well in all ways on crop factor cameras like the 60D and 20D. It will work very well optically with the 1.4x Canon Tele-extender but will not autofocus, unless you tape the contacts which I am unwilling to do. It will work properly with extension tubes.

GWMT wrote:
Focal length of a lens remains the same the aspect ratio on a smaller sensor, is decreased?


Aspect ratio has nothing to do with the lens. Aspect ratio is the ratio of the width of the sensor to the height. Canon crop factor cameras and full-frame cameras have the same aspect ratio, 3:2.

Focal length remains the same, but it will seem as if you have a longer focal length because of the cropping.

This all presumes you are enlarging the sensor images to the same print size. The different degree of enlargement required to make the same print size is what is behind the term "reach" because that depends on the sensors involved and their pixel density. A crop sensor will have to be enlarged more, but it may have more pixel density and doing the arithmetic may reveal that some crop sensors will yield more pixels per print than some full-frame sensor cropped and enlarged.

Other aspects of a lens remain the same whether it is on a crop sensor or full-frame but will have varying effects depending on the degree of enlargement to produce the print.

The size of the blur disks will remain the same, as will the degree of chromatic aberration and barrel/pincushion distortion. The blur disks (larger the more a point in an image is out of focus -- and the root of how depth of field works) will be enlarged by different amounts when making the same size print from different sized sensors or from a full-frame sensor that has been cropped. This is why we say that the crop sensor format has greater depth of field than full-frame, effectively, in practice, when comparing same size prints made at the same shooting distance (thus same perspective) with the same framing and composition.



Feb 12, 2013 at 11:10 AM
PetKal
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · 60d + 100-400L IS will it work?


GWMT wrote:
I'm new to DSLR and have a 60d, and would like to get a 100-400L IS, will it fit, focus,ect?
What about extension tubes and converters? Or even a 24-70L IS?

Thanx


With 60D, like with any other Canon EOS camera, any Canon EF lens will work and auto focus correctly, as they have all been designed for one another.

60D is a camera well suited for resolving scene detail because of the imaging sensor's very high pixel density, like a very fine sampling grid one would place over the scene. In fact, 60D sensor type is the densest of all of them used in Canon EOS cameras at this time.

The 100-400 lens as well as 24-70L IS will auto focus normally on 60D, within the lens and camera design parameters.

When you mount a 1.4xTC magnifying teleconverter on 100-400 lens, by its design 60D will not autofocus because its AF limit is f/5.6 nominal lens (combo) aperture, and the converter addition has turned the lens into an f/8 combo, i.e., there is one f-stop penalty due to the use of 1.4xTC. However, all the other camera/lens features will be retained normally, just that you will have to focus the lens manually.



Feb 12, 2013 at 11:39 AM
Imagemaster
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · 60d + 100-400L IS will it work?


Paul Mo wrote:
No offense, but as an Imagemaster, perhaps you should be more helpful?


Well Mr. Know-It-All, what could be more helpful for a newbie than taking a photography course and reading up on the gear he wants to use?

Then maybe he would not have been confused with your so-helpful information.



Feb 12, 2013 at 04:00 PM
RobDickinson
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · 60d + 100-400L IS will it work?


Monito wrote:
Nope. DPP is very usable. It has some dinky user interface issues, but so does Lightroom.



We'll agree to disagree then. DPP is stuck in the mid 90's and along side itunes rates my worst user experience on a modern pc.



Feb 12, 2013 at 07:46 PM
 

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uz2work
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · 60d + 100-400L IS will it work?


I sure am glad that I don't need to use this thread to understand aspects of crop factor, focal length, pixel density, field of view, aspect ratio, etc. With a few tidbits of correct information mixed in, there is a large collection of information that, even if presented with good intentions, is incorrect or, at best, confusing or misleading in this thread.

I wouldn't even think of trying to sort through all of it, and I'm not sure, at this point, trying to give a complete explanation would be helpful, but I'll just make a few quick points.

1. A 400 mm lens is a 400 mm lens regardless of what camera body is being used.
2. With a 1.6 crop factor camera, what you are seeing is only a portion of the full frame view. That portion is roughly 40% of the view that you would be seeing with the full frame camera and the same lens.
3. Regardless of whether you are using a full frame camera or a 1.6 crop Canon camera, the aspect ration is still the same--3:2.
4. Yes, wildlife photographers often find advantage in using the 7D, and the reason is that it has a high pixel density, which can be very useful in focal length-limited shooting situations. All of its 18 MP are concentrated into the smaller sensor that is only 40% the size of the full frame sensor. The theory is that, if you were using an 18 MP full frame sensor and if you needed to crop to the field of view of the 1.6 crop camera, you would be left with only about 7 MP in that cropped image from the full frame camera. Thus, even though a 400 mm lens is still a 400 mm lens regardless of the camera on which it is being used, if you are in a focal length-limited situation and you are going to need to crop, you can put as many pixels on your subject with a 400 mm lens and an 18 MP 1.6 crop camera as you would be able to put on the subject with a 640 mm lens and an 18 MP full frame camera.
5. Even though it is the pixel density of the 7D that gives it an advantage in these focal length-limited situations and not its 1.6 crop factor, since the Canon camera bodies with the highest pixel density currently are the 1.6 crop bodies, some occasionally carelessly refer to the crop factor as being what gives the advantage.
6. If Canon makes a full frame body in the future with 45 MP and it can still shoot at 8 frames per second, there will be no pixel density advantage to the using a 1.6 crop 7D. If, at the same time, Canon makes a new version of the 7D with 45 mp on a 1.6 crop sensor, it would regain a pixel density advantage.

Les


Edited on Feb 13, 2013 at 12:15 AM · View previous versions



Feb 12, 2013 at 08:21 PM
Pixel Perfect
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · 60d + 100-400L IS will it work?


Oh dear, another thread that's turned into a load of crop!








Feb 12, 2013 at 09:29 PM
Imagemaster
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · 60d + 100-400L IS will it work?


Pixel Perfect wrote:
Oh dear, another thread that's turned into a load of crop!

http://p11997.ipscdn.com/public/style_emoticons/default/beatdeadhorse.gif



But a crop of a load of crop is better than a full-frame load of crop, and is less stinky.



Feb 12, 2013 at 09:33 PM
Angry
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · 60d + 100-400L IS will it work?


RobDickinson wrote:
Any canon EF or EF-S lens will mount/fit and autofocus/work with the 60d.

The 100-400 wont autofocus with a teleconvertor on the 60d.

An extension tube will reduce minimum focus distance so help you shoot smaller subjects closer, the 100-400 isnt a macro lens but with this can be used to shoot butterflies etc.

The 100-400 though isnt an easy lens to use, 400mm on a crop sensor will show poor technique up badly, it takes time to learn.



The above is correct, the 100-400 takes a bit to get used to using...

I have a friend who get pretty images from a 60D & a 100-400,...but he has to work at it....he bought a 400f5.6,...he comments its much easier to work with but just wont zoom...

Al



Feb 12, 2013 at 11:01 PM
PetKal
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · 60d + 100-400L IS will it work?


Angry wrote:
I have a friend who get pretty images from a 60D & a 100-400,...but he has to work at it....he bought a 400f5.6,...he comments its much easier to work with but just wont zoom...


I wonder what was he trying to say to you...."work at it" in what way ? What does that mean ?

If anything, 100-400 is generally easier to do photography with under a variety of circumstances......from low light, because its IS is quite effective, to varying distances to targets.

400 f/5.6 is relatively inflexible and demanding because not everything in your VF will be in its range, it has a very long MFD, and perhaps most important of all, not too many people can shoot with it handheld and achieve requisite steadiness and freedom from lens shake caused blur.



Feb 12, 2013 at 11:35 PM
RobDickinson
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · 60d + 100-400L IS will it work?


From my experience the IS on the 100-400 needs time to settle, if you dont give it near 2 seconds it doesnt work, snap shooting it actually hurts the image.

with the 400/5.6 you know you need a higher shutter speed or shoot well braced.

I ended up shooting the 100-400 with IS switched off.



Feb 12, 2013 at 11:43 PM
kevinsullivan
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · 60d + 100-400L IS will it work?


Yes a 24-70 L IS does exist and for the OP it will work.

Pardon me. I'm stuck at f/2.8. The f/4 does exist, and of course it'll work.



Feb 12, 2013 at 11:47 PM
GCasey
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · 60d + 100-400L IS will it work?


The sensor size makes the difference!

The 100-400 lens 'throws' an image large enough to cover the full size sensor.

The 100-400 lens 'throws' the same size image when mounted on a crop camera, bul the sensor is smaller and can actually record only a portion of the total image.

The OP's questions are answered above.



Feb 13, 2013 at 12:09 AM
CW100
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · 60d + 100-400L IS will it work?


PetKal wrote:
If anything, 100-400 is generally easier to do photography with under a variety of circumstances......from low light, because its IS is quite effective, to varying distances to targets.

400 f/5.6 is relatively inflexible and demanding because not everything in your VF will be in its range, it has a very long MFD, and perhaps most important of all, not too many people can shoot with it handheld and achieve requisite steadiness and freedom from lens shake caused blur.


unless you're primarily shooting birds the 100-400 will be much more versatile




Feb 13, 2013 at 12:05 PM
PetKal
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · 60d + 100-400L IS will it work?


CW100 wrote:
unless you're primarily shooting birds the 100-400 will be much more versatile than 400 f/5.6


Does that mean that for bird photography the zoom is much less versatile than 400 f/5.6 ?



Feb 13, 2013 at 01:08 PM
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