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Archive 2013 · Appeal of super high ISOs...fallacy?
  
 
Lars Johnsson
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p.4 #1 · Appeal of super high ISOs...fallacy?


I think high ISO capabilities for birds and wildlife is really good to have. I shoot with long lenses and need high shutter speed. When I can shoot at 1/1000 sec with my long lenses I get a lot more keepers than shooting at 1/100 or 1/250 second. And I get this because I can shoot at higher ISO.
And the best time to shoot birds and wildlife is at sunrise and sunset. When it's low light



Feb 11, 2013 at 04:22 AM
Imagemaster
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p.4 #2 · Appeal of super high ISOs...fallacy?


dorian wrote:
high ISO for wildlife is WAY overrated in my (albeit very amateur) eyes. i shoot 99% birds and when there isn't clear sunshine, i usually shut down the camera and break out the scope/binoculars for birding. gas is expensive these days and so really i only venture out (since i have to drive out of the city) for photography when the light is good. i mean, once you see a photo of a beautiful bird in perfect light, ain't no amount of ISO gonna make a that same bird in crappy light look as good as one in great light.
...Show more

Sorry, but I certainly don't agree with that. Generally, your clear sunshine results in harsh light and overly-contrasty images. I will take the soft lighting of a bright overcast day most times to that.



Feb 11, 2013 at 04:48 AM
David Baldwin
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p.4 #3 · Appeal of super high ISOs...fallacy?


"After all, IMO photography is all about capturing light, not the pursuit of crappy light trying to make something useable from it."

Well, seems to me that sometimes the lowest light can be very atmospheric, and its not just impractical to add artificial light, but would destroy the "feel". I too have the 5D2 and often use it in very low light up to ISO 3200. Personally for me every increase in high ISO performance is a major step forward. Here's a comparison, film at ISO 3200 and my 5D2 at ISO 3200:

http://www.nightfolio.co.uk/subpages/la15.html
http://www.nightfolio.co.uk/subpages/sm001.html

Its not hard to guess which is the film image! Seems to me that one of the key benefits of the DSLR revolution is the amazing high ISO, as far as I am concerned the higher useable ISO Canon can give me the happier I will be. I will probably exchange my (by then) ageing 5D2 for a 5D4 or 6D2 which should give me excellent ISO 8000 I hope!

Edited on Feb 11, 2013 at 05:02 AM · View previous versions



Feb 11, 2013 at 05:01 AM
mttran
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p.4 #4 · Appeal of super high ISOs...fallacy?


Everyone has different application in ISO. I can't wait for ISO less camera. At the mean time i always use low iso to be sure. A trip back to China Sea in 2010, 5d2 and 17-40L













Feb 11, 2013 at 06:42 AM
15Bit
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p.4 #5 · Appeal of super high ISOs...fallacy?


I just shot my daughter's birthday party at max ISO on my 5D (3200) and for sure i would like to have been able to go higher. Quality photography it probably isn't, but they're still memories i'd like to keep and i'm willing to pay somewhat to get them.

Higher ISO capability was one of the reasons i upgraded from my 350D to a 5D, as the high ISO ability of the former was genuinely very limiting for indoor shooting.



Feb 11, 2013 at 07:11 AM
Ferrophot
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p.4 #6 · Appeal of super high ISOs...fallacy?


For those that feel comfort in the lower end of the ISO scale I wish good luck, but they are missing out on new possibilities that the higher ISO capabilities are bringing.
Light in the blue hours is very different to full sun, and images shot before sunup and after sundown can bring new and unusual qualities. I photograph wildlife, trains and planes. Lately I've been picking up my 7D an hour before sunrise and putting it away 2 hours after. Similarly for the late evenings. Can't wait 'til I can afford the 6D. Action images shot at high ISOs have opened up a whole new type of photography for me.



Feb 11, 2013 at 08:26 AM
Beni
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p.4 #7 · Appeal of super high ISOs...fallacy?


RogerC11 wrote:
A bit offended are we? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Opinions are like A-holes...


Especially your closed minded ones. Go troll some other forum.



Feb 11, 2013 at 09:37 AM
Ralph Conway
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p.4 #8 · Appeal of super high ISOs...fallacy?


Lars Johnsson wrote:
^^ @ Dorian,

To be fair here, neither of your two shots are in crappy light. Or low light. I would even say that at least one of those was shot in very good light. And it's ISO 320 & 400 also. Just look at the exif beneth your pics:

Canon EOS 7D 700 mm f/9.0 1/100 sec 400 ISO
Canon EOS 7D 400 mm f/5.6 1/2000 sec 320 ISO


+ 100 absolutely those samples are done in broad daylight.

Crappy light for me starts about having 100-10.000 times less light than both samples show. Aand having to use 2.8 with at 1/15th and ISO 3200 if shooting a wedding. That comes down to standard when shooting a wedding in a dimly lit church on a rainy day. And I would never use a flash in a church, neither a tripod if shooting people helps. Flashes just would destroy the picture. A tripod cuts your flexibility. Having usable ISO 6.400, 12.800 and 25k with todays gear is the biggest gift camera manufacturers gave us the last decade.



Feb 11, 2013 at 10:13 AM
eosfun
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p.4 #9 · Appeal of super high ISOs...fallacy?


Sheldon N wrote:
You can't put a price tag or a value on the ability to capture an image with timeless importance.

I took this image of my brother and sister-in-law and their very ill newborn son in a dark hospital room at ISO 25k.

He died 10 days later.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/sheldonnalos/_DX_6342.jpg


To me this post was the best illustration why the OP in his rant is wrong. Except Tim (trumpet guy) hardly any one else responded to your post Sheldon, I am really sorry to see that most people just skip your post and go on with the argument, while your picture and it's story behind it make me silent. From personal experience, having lost a child to cancer more than 20 years ago, I know what you and your family are going through. I am glad I have some of my best memories of our boy captured in photos. They are the most precious memories now, not just for us, but also the rest of the family, my brothers and sisters, all grandparents, friends and so many other people. That by itself is priceless. The picture like you shared with us is precious like that and you shared it with us to make it clear you were happy you have been able to shoot this in bad lighting conditions in a hospital at high ISO.

Other people who argue for their own EOSfun may call this a fallacy, I find your picture a good illustration of what state of the art technology also can do for normal people not shooting professional sports, arts, night landscapes or whatever.

I wish you, your brother and his wife and the rest of your family all best in these difficult times!



Feb 11, 2013 at 10:53 AM
Paul Mo
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p.4 #10 · Appeal of super high ISOs...fallacy?


eosfun wrote:
I am really sorry to see that most people just skip your post and go on with the argument,



Not me - no skipping here. It is in my nature to read such a post and digest it, to wait a few hours before coming back to it. I imagine most other posters are the same - it registered, it wasn't skipped.

Believe me Sheldon, anyone who has lived long enough knows of such loss. Take care of each other as best you can, and go well.



Feb 11, 2013 at 01:11 PM
 

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PhilDrinkwater
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p.4 #11 · Appeal of super high ISOs...fallacy?


Ralph Conway wrote:
Crappy light for me starts about having 100-10.000 times less light than both samples show. Aand having to use 2.8 with at 1/15th and ISO 3200 if shooting a wedding. That comes down to standard when shooting a wedding in a dimly lit church on a rainy day. And I would never use a flash in a church, neither a tripod if shooting people helps. Flashes just would destroy the picture. A tripod cuts your flexibility. Having usable ISO 6.400, 12.800 and 25k with todays gear is the biggest gift camera manufacturers gave us the last decade.


Indeed. I do this all of the time too. However, personally when I get to 6400 on my 5d3 I'm reaching for the primes. If I'm doing natural light dance floor shots that means I'm at f1.8 or something, which is definitely not ideal when people are moving. 1dx I thought maybe ISO10000 was the limit.

Bring on more high ISO! Every stop is a stop for the good!



Feb 11, 2013 at 01:16 PM
Ralph Conway
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p.4 #12 · Appeal of super high ISOs...fallacy?


To Sheldon N:
Same here. I saw this thread some hours ago and I was shocked about your post. A good partner (in photography) friend of mine and his wife happened same. Theire boy was born with a heart desease and died a couple of weeks later.

A very sad moment lasting long after, too. But time heals wounds. Life is an unbelieveable gift. We to often and to fast forget this.



Feb 11, 2013 at 01:28 PM
RogerC11
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p.4 #13 · Appeal of super high ISOs...fallacy?


Beni wrote:
Especially your closed minded ones. Go troll some other forum.

Troll? Hardly, but I appreciate your comment and invaluable contribution to this thread.



Feb 11, 2013 at 02:06 PM
PetKal
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p.4 #14 · Appeal of super high ISOs...fallacy?


Oh yes, this is a trolling original post awlright. Lack of knowledge or experience is not a "sin" in themselves unless they are coupled with presumptuous and provocative statements.

What else do we need along those lines on this board ? Perhaps next is "DSLRs are highly overrated because look what I can do with my cell phone" topic ?



Feb 11, 2013 at 02:26 PM
OntheRez
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p.4 #15 · Appeal of super high ISOs...fallacy?


To me this post was the best illustration why the OP in his rant is wrong. Except Tim (trumpet guy) hardly any one else responded to your post Sheldon, I am really sorry to see that most people just skip your post and go on with the argument, while your picture and it's story behind it make me silent. From personal experience, having lost a child to cancer more than 20 years ago, I know what you and your family are going through. I am glad I have some of my best memories of our boy captured in photos. They are...Show more
Not me - no skipping here. It is in my nature to read such a post and digest it, to wait a few hours before coming back to it. I imagine most other posters are the same - it registered, it wasn't skipped.

Believe me Sheldon, anyone who has lived long enough knows of such loss. Take care of each other as best you can, and go well.


I was stunned at Sheldonís photo and sat here for sometime wanting to look away, but unable to mask the overwhelming sense of human emotion, caring, and yes deep pain. Iím perhaps a bit over sensitive at the moment as I recently finished being the principal care-giver for my wifeís 92 year old father as he died. In his last few hours I was able to take few shots of him. They were at ISO 12800. No, I couldnít use flash. No, I couldnít set up a tripod. No, I couldnít alter the light that was given. Itís called respect. Those pictures provided a sense of closure and comfort to his children particularly those who didnít make it in time.

Iím utterly baffled by the OPís post and snarky responses. To me he is saying, ďIíve got a dull knife and all of you with sharper knives are just lazy cause you donít have to dig as hard.Ē Why would anyone NOT want a sharper knife?

Yes, I love the great broad light of day and spend many hours with a tripod seeking to capture some instant of its beauty. However, light lives even in the shadows, indeed without light there are no shadows to paraphrase a very wise Rabbi.

Youíve been given a multitude of reasons why greater sensitivity (which is what high ISO is) is of great value: sports, weddings, events where increasingly flash is not allowed. In my work I deal with a home FB field where even shooting at 25600 Iím still a stop or 2 slow.

One can argue that ďmaking up the lightĒ via the myriad of lighting techniques available to us is cheating. To say so would be just as absurd as denigrating those who use higher ISO. When I observe the work of Francios over at the People forum, it is ostensibly about his nudes. But, if you follow his work for a bit you realize he is actually worshiping light as it creates the human form.

Pardon me. Iím on a tirade. Iíll sit down and shut up.

Sheldon, there are no words to mask or undo the tragedy and pain that is part a parcel of the whole of human experience. If such words existed, I would extend them to your brother and his wife. Nevertheless I can only wish them godspeed and thank you for sharing such an intimate and stunning moment with us.

Robert



Feb 11, 2013 at 04:59 PM
Sheldon N
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p.4 #16 · Appeal of super high ISOs...fallacy?


Thank you for the kind words everyone.


Feb 11, 2013 at 05:00 PM
dorian
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p.4 #17 · Appeal of super high ISOs...fallacy?


Lars Johnsson wrote:
^^ @ Dorian,

To be fair here, neither of your two shots are in crappy light. Or low light. I would even say that at least one of those was shot in very good light. And it's ISO 320 & 400 also. Just look at the exif beneth your pics:

Canon EOS 7D 700 mm f/9.0 1/100 sec 400 ISO
Canon EOS 7D 400 mm f/5.6 1/2000 sec 320 ISO


that's what i'm saying lars, that if your have to push to some ridiculously high iso it might be worth spending the time doing something else! for me there is a very high opportunity cost to being out taking pictures - i am scientist and i need as much time in my lab as possible to generate data. this is why i wait until there is good light before i head out. i can only be out ~10 hrs / week so i need to make sure i hit good light when i get out there! yes, having high iso capabilities never hurts, but i would rather put less money into that technology if i had the option and instead put it into more reach from my lenses.

i realize much of my thinking is dictated by my 70+ hour work week though!





Feb 11, 2013 at 05:02 PM
dorian
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p.4 #18 · Appeal of super high ISOs...fallacy?


Imagemaster wrote:
Sorry, but I certainly don't agree with that. Generally, your clear sunshine results in harsh light and overly-contrasty images. I will take the soft lighting of a bright overcast day most times to that.


that's understandable, you live in vancouver!


cheers

dorian



Feb 11, 2013 at 05:06 PM
Lars Johnsson
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p.4 #19 · Appeal of super high ISOs...fallacy?


dorian wrote:
that's what i'm saying lars, that if your have to push to some ridiculously high iso it might be worth spending the time doing something else! for me there is a very high opportunity cost to being out taking pictures - i am scientist and i need as much time in my lab as possible to generate data. this is why i wait until there is good light before i head out. i can only be out ~10 hrs / week so i need to make sure i hit good light when i get out there! yes, having high iso
...Show more

Good light is NOT in the middle of the day when the sun is strong. It only give you harsh light and bad bird pics.
The nice light is early morning (sunrise) and evening (sunset). And that's also when you find a lot more birds than in the middle of the day.
And it's not ridiculously high iso just because you go higher than 400



Feb 11, 2013 at 05:11 PM
dorian
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p.4 #20 · Appeal of super high ISOs...fallacy?


that's why i get up at 4am on the weekends, shoot till 10, then go to work!


Feb 11, 2013 at 05:20 PM
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