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Archive 2013 · Photogenic ION? Competitor to Vagabond mini-lithium?
  
 
MikeMaez
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Photogenic ION? Competitor to Vagabond mini-lithium?


I did a search and did not see anything on the forums about this little guy so was wondering if anyone here has heard anything?

http://www.photogenic.com/item/137/575/ion-pure-sine-wave-inverter-lithium-ion-8-8ah-120wh/

I saw an ad in Rangefinder but have been able to find very little info online about pricing/availability/etc.

The feature set looks decent enough and it could be a good competitor to Buff's Vagabond mini-lithium if it comes in at the right price point.

Anyone with photogenic gear care to comment on their quality and reliabilty? I have no experience with their gear personally.



Feb 07, 2013 at 02:06 AM
HelenB
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Photogenic ION? Competitor to Vagabond mini-lithium?


B&H list them at $374 after rebate.


Feb 07, 2013 at 03:13 AM
Allynb
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Photogenic ION? Competitor to Vagabond mini-lithium?


Have used Photogenic Studio gear for a while and I find them reliable and well built. Saw the ion on their website, but not any prices. Hope this helps.


Feb 07, 2013 at 03:46 AM
kenyee
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Photogenic ION? Competitor to Vagabond mini-lithium?


There was mention on the PCB forum about it...pretty much a non-licensed copy of their inverter (but they also had no patents on it). Photogenic is using the same manufacturer too. Pretty funny that it costs more ;-)


Feb 07, 2013 at 03:52 AM
PeterBerressem
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Photogenic ION? Competitor to Vagabond mini-lithium?


B&H is a retailer, so their mark-up adds to what they pay to Photogenic. PCBuff's price is factory direct.


Feb 07, 2013 at 07:20 AM
MikeMaez
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Photogenic ION? Competitor to Vagabond mini-lithium?


So this is pretty much a direct rip of the vagabond mini for more money. Damn, that sucks. Not sure how I missed it on B&H before, I swear I just searched on there the other day.

kenyee - thanks for the mention, I didn't think about checking Buff's forums. After reading that thread and reading Buff's comments, looks like this is a no-brainer then. Vagabond mini-lithium for me!



Feb 07, 2013 at 08:49 AM
DigMeTX
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Photogenic ION? Competitor to Vagabond mini-lithium?


Every time a competitor to the Vagabond pops up it turns out that it's not really even close to competitive in terms of cost. I don't even look at prices of these things even more because I know it won't be cheaper.

brad



Feb 07, 2013 at 02:54 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Photogenic ION? Competitor to Vagabond mini-lithium?


Cost to mfr + cost to distribute + profits for both mfr & distributor
vs.
Cost to mfr + profit for mfr

Marketing costs variable with economy of scale ... but, the equation is usually pretty consistent with the obvious.



Feb 07, 2013 at 04:58 PM
MikeMaez
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Photogenic ION? Competitor to Vagabond mini-lithium?


brad - are there any other solutions besides the vagabond mini-lithium out there really in terms of a generic pure sine wave inverter li-ion solution?

This is the first competitor to the vagabond mini-lithium I have seen...



Feb 07, 2013 at 11:13 PM
hugowolf
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Photogenic ION? Competitor to Vagabond mini-lithium?


MikeMaez wrote:
brad - are there any other solutions besides the vagabond mini-lithium out there really in terms of a generic pure sine wave inverter li-ion solution?

This is the first competitor to the vagabond mini-lithium I have seen...

There are other solutions, such as the Tronix Mini. It isn't Lith Ion, but because of that the recycling is much faster. It is bigger and heavier, but still quite small and portable and is compatible with more flash units than the Buff Mini.
http://www.innovatronix.com/index.php/webshop/portable-battery-packs/tronix-explorer-mini-115v-60hz-detail?showall=1#specifications

Brian A



Feb 08, 2013 at 03:35 AM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



RustyBug
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Photogenic ION? Competitor to Vagabond mini-lithium?


hugowolf wrote:
compatible with more flash units than the Buff Mini.





Feb 08, 2013 at 03:54 AM
hugowolf
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Photogenic ION? Competitor to Vagabond mini-lithium?


RustyBug wrote:

?
Brian A



Feb 08, 2013 at 04:31 AM
RustyBug
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Photogenic ION? Competitor to Vagabond mini-lithium?


I'm not sure I understand why the Tronix Mini is considered to be compatible with more flash units than the Buff Mini. Which flashes is the Tronix Mini compatible with that the Buff mini isn't ... and what / why makes it so (engineering/design)?


Feb 08, 2013 at 05:11 AM
hugowolf
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Photogenic ION? Competitor to Vagabond mini-lithium?


RustyBug wrote:
I'm not sure I understand why the Tronix Mini is considered to be compatible with more flash units than the Buff Mini. Which flashes is the Tronix Mini compatible with that the Buff mini isn't ...

http://www.innovatronix.com/index.php/component/k2/item/33-tronix-explorer-compatibility-chart


and what / why makes it so (engineering/design)?

I don't remember why

Brian A



Feb 08, 2013 at 05:27 AM
PeterBerressem
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Photogenic ION? Competitor to Vagabond mini-lithium?


hugowolf wrote:
I don't remember why
Brian A


The PCBuff flashes are designed to tolerate (voltage drop) a pretty low charging power, hence they are content with the smallish inverter of the Vagabond ML. Many "digital" flashes of other brands are better served by higher rated inverters, as in this case the Tronix Mini's 400W (1200W peak).



Feb 08, 2013 at 07:59 AM
RustyBug
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Photogenic ION? Competitor to Vagabond mini-lithium?


The Tronix website states that it is 400W (continuous) and 1200 Ws ... the VML handlles two Einsteins @ 1280 Ws.

The VML rates 200-250 flashes @ 1280 Ws @ 7sec/recycle
Tronix Explorer Mini rates 50 flashes @ 1200 Ws @ 4sec/recycle
Tronix Explorer Mini rates 180-200 flashes @ 500 Ws
http://www.innovatronix.com/index.php/products/item/34-tronix-explorer

I see the SLA being able to generate a faster recycle time (trade-off @ # of flashes/weight) than the LI, but I'm still a bit confused @ how that makes the Tronix compatible with more flashes. And if the Tronix is compatible with more flashes than the VML, doesn't that put the Photogenic in a similar quandary ... and wouldn't Photogenic need to be safeguarding themselves by indicating "non-compatibility" issues if they exist.

Please excuse my "grossly" limited electronics knowledge, but are we not just filling capacitors in the flash from the battery via the inverter. The slower "fill rate" of the the LI versions taking longer to fill the caps in the flash, but once the caps are filled ... how does the SLA vs. LI issue affect compatibility?

The Photogenic rates @ 120W (continuous), so I get how that makes for a slower recycle time than the 400W (continuous) Tronix ... but I still don't get how that makes it (Photogenic/VML) less compatible. Isn't that kinda like saying that Alkaline vs. Lithium vs. Ni-Cd are not compatible in a given speedlight because they have different discharge rates? Sure, they take a different amount of time to fill the caps, but once the caps are filled



Edited on Feb 08, 2013 at 03:53 PM · View previous versions



Feb 08, 2013 at 01:56 PM
DigMeTX
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Photogenic ION? Competitor to Vagabond mini-lithium?


MikeMaez wrote:
brad - are there any other solutions besides the vagabond mini-lithium out there really in terms of a generic pure sine wave inverter li-ion solution?

This is the first competitor to the vagabond mini-lithium I have seen...



I just mean competitive in terms of portable ability to plug in an AC monolight.
Here's a somewhat outdated list of some alternatives:

http://www.lightingrumours.com/portable-power-guide

brad



Feb 08, 2013 at 02:37 PM
DWill
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Photogenic ION? Competitor to Vagabond mini-lithium?


I recently purchased the Vagabond Mini to power my Photogenic PL1250 and they work perfectly together. I tested and got about 200 pops on full power with 5 sec intervals before the fan on the Vagabond mini came on.


Feb 08, 2013 at 03:51 PM
kenyee
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Photogenic ION? Competitor to Vagabond mini-lithium?


hugowolf wrote:
It isn't Lith Ion, but because of that the recycling is much faster


I thought it was because it had a bigger inverter?
Thought, supposedly, you can suck more current out of a lead acid battery than LI-ON...




Feb 08, 2013 at 08:38 PM
Gregg Heckler
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Photogenic ION? Competitor to Vagabond mini-lithium?


"Every time a competitor to the Vagabond pops up it turns out that it's not really even close to competitive in terms of cost. I don't even look at prices of these things even more because I know it won't be cheaper.

brad"

Pretty tough for the Chinese to beat the Chinese these days.



Feb 10, 2013 at 05:48 PM
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