A prediction for camera industry for discuss here Alt board

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jcolwell
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p.7 #1 · A prediction for camera industry for discuss here Alt board

mordicai wrote:
John Meada is running Canon Camera into the ground.....

Good thing my 1DX is dirt proof.

Feb 02, 2013 at 03:24 AM

Jon Tainton
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p.7 #2 · A prediction for camera industry for discuss here Alt board

From my own purely selfish perspective of a landscape toggers needs, I'd like the camera industry to concentrate on :

Improving sensor colour(color) fidelity/rendition and/or better manual white balance functionality i.e where WB can be optimised in camera to the subject/lighting e.g spring greens, autumn colour, snow, mist, twilight, golden hour etc. rather than the catch all daylight/cloudy/shade settings. Ideally implemented like live view for focusing, but where hue and tone can be adjusted with RGB/luminosity on the rear LCD.

An intelligent digicam sensor/processor able to optically characterise/profile a mounted lens using test charts, grey card, field images etc. With the ability to chip alt lenses, an intelligent sensor would be welcome.

A camera that can be operated wearing gloves, would be welcome.

A camera warning light to alert the togger to image vibration, so ISO can be upped in the field and/or more ballast underslung from the tripod.

A sensor with 'tilt' capability would be interesting.

Feb 02, 2013 at 09:08 AM

carstenw
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p.7 #3 · A prediction for camera industry for discuss here Alt board

Access wrote:
carstenw I think what they wanted to do is hedge, ie. have _something_ out there to jump to in case the DSLR is substantially impacted or dies. But at the same time, not something so strong that it cannibalizes their DSLRs.

Yes, that is exactly what it looks like from the outside, safe, boring, but also ineffective in competing with the stronger alternatives. While the EOS-M will allow some Canon manager to say that they have a mirrorless strategy, anyone with any knowledge about the industry can see that one mediocre camera with no exciting new features and two or three lenses is not going to convince anyone but existing Canon fans, and only a subset thereof. They really need to release another camera or two, with stronger identity, and a series of excellent and interesting lenses, primes, zooms, pro zooms.

Feb 02, 2013 at 10:05 AM

carstenw
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p.7 #4 · A prediction for camera industry for discuss here Alt board

Access wrote:
I do hope mirrorless catches on here but often I think that is hoping for too much.
Also I'd like to see some different form factors in mirrorless. I remember some of the radical form factors we had for compact prosumer around 2003 timeframe. To me, mirrorless form factor seems downright uninspired. It's either 'DSLR-like', 'the box', or some minor variation of 'the box'.

I am sure mirrorless camera systems will catch on when the general public starts to understand the unique combination of size and image quality that they offer. It might happen already in 2013, or it might take another year or two, but I think it inevitable.

Which form factors do you mean, stuff like the Sony 717/828, and the Nikon 99x series? Yes, I am sad to see these neat cameras disappear, but I guess the low imagination of the general public is to blame, and I guess the sales just couldn't justify the R&D.

Feb 02, 2013 at 10:10 AM

carstenw
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p.7 #5 · A prediction for camera industry for discuss here Alt board

Jon Tainton wrote:
Improving sensor colour(color) fidelity/rendition

[...]

A sensor with 'tilt' capability would be interesting.

Yessss! It seems to me that apart from specific Leica, Kodak, Fuji and perhaps Olympus cameras, the general lack of attention to attractive or at least accurate colours in converted RAW (i.e. proper sensor sensitivity combined with optimal profiles), especially spin tones, reds and purples, are a ripe area for dramatic improvement, and possibly the last frontier for DSLRs and mirrorless camera image quality. MFDBs are more or less already there.

A sensor tilt function would be great, and I wonder if a limited shift wouldn't also be possible, but I guess the extreme accuracy required in sensor alignment will make this strictly a very high-end feature.

Feb 02, 2013 at 10:20 AM

Toothwalker
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p.7 #6 · A prediction for camera industry for discuss here Alt board

Jon Tainton wrote:
From my own purely selfish perspective of a landscape toggers needs, I'd like the camera industry to concentrate on :

Improving sensor colour(color) fidelity/rendition and/or better manual white balance functionality i.e where WB can be optimised in camera to the subject/lighting e.g spring greens, autumn colour, snow, mist, twilight, golden hour etc. rather than the catch all daylight/cloudy/shade settings. Ideally implemented like live view for focusing, but where hue and tone can be adjusted with RGB/luminosity on the rear LCD.

An intelligent digicam sensor/processor able to optically characterise/profile a mounted lens using test charts, grey card, field images etc. With the ability to chip alt lenses, an intelligent sensor would be welcome.

A camera that can be operated wearing gloves, would be welcome.

A camera warning light to alert the togger to image vibration, so ISO can be upped in the field and/or more ballast underslung from the tripod.

A sensor with 'tilt' capability would be interesting.

From my perspective, I see more room for improvement by removing a lot of the crap implemented in today's DSLRs than by adding new features.

Feb 02, 2013 at 11:15 AM

Access
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p.7 #7 · A prediction for camera industry for discuss here Alt board

carstenw wrote:
three lenses is not going to convince anyone but existing Canon fans, and only a subset thereof. They really need to release another camera or two, with stronger identity, and a series of excellent and interesting lenses, primes, zooms, pro zooms.
That's what I mean by a hedge. It's the most conservative or risk-averse strategy to take (less risky than simply ignoring mirrorless). If they had nothing and mirrorless took over, they'd be up the creek because they'd have to start from zero all over again. Now with EOS-M they at least have a system out there to build upon. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with EOS-M or why it couldn't be a good system if they really got on board.

When it comes to form factor, yes, I remember looking at a Sony DSC-F707 or DSC-F717 and some others before I decided to get the digital rebel instead.

With modern miniaturization you don't need to make uninspired boxes or DSLR-like forms. Make a spotting scope type form for birders, one that's designed to mimic a smartphone for that crowd, and so on.

Feb 02, 2013 at 03:59 PM

Lotusm50
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p.7 #8 · A prediction for camera industry for discuss here Alt board

Toothwalker wrote:
From my perspective, I see more room for improvement by removing a lot of the crap implemented in today's DSLRs than by adding new features.

I don't disagree, but I'd be interested in hearing what you would like to remove, and why.

Feb 02, 2013 at 04:35 PM

Toothwalker
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p.7 #9 · A prediction for camera industry for discuss here Alt board

Lotusm50 wrote:
Toothwalker wrote:
From my perspective, I see more room for improvement by removing a lot of the crap implemented in today's DSLRs than by adding new features.

I don't disagree, but I'd be interested in hearing what you would like to remove, and why.

Basically everything I don't use. I am holding my 5D2 now, and see a couple of buttons that I never use. I can do without a print button, autofocus, flash socket, video capability, and everything related to JPEG file dumps. My pictures do not suffer from their presence, but as far as I am concerned they can be stripped off. For the same money I would prefer a better sensor (always welcome), more attention to calibration for manual focus, and an integrated vertical release button in the RTS3 style.

I realize of course that manufacturers cannot release a tailor-made camera for each individual, and that it is far more attractive to pack a camera with many features so that many individuals find something to their liking.

Feb 02, 2013 at 05:38 PM

edwardkaraa
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p.7 #10 · A prediction for camera industry for discuss here Alt board

carstenw wrote:

A sensor tilt function would be great, and I wonder if a limited shift wouldn't also be possible, but I guess the extreme accuracy required in sensor alignment will make this strictly a very high-end feature.

Any camera with ibis function should theoretically be able to do some sensor shift. I wonder why it is not implemented.

Feb 02, 2013 at 06:55 PM

mpmendenhall
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p.7 #11 · A prediction for camera industry for discuss here Alt board

edwardkaraa wrote:
Any camera with ibis function should theoretically be able to do some sensor shift. I wonder why it is not implemented.

Preventing tens of pixels of blur (thus being able to move the sensor by enough to add/remove tens of pixels image area around the borders) produces an impressive amount of image stabilization, but not a particularly useful amount of shift. The large movement scales necessary for "useful" sensor shift require a very different mechanical setup than the very small, fine adjustments for image stabilization.

Feb 02, 2013 at 07:10 PM

sirimiri
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p.7 #12 · A prediction for camera industry for discuss here Alt board

sirimiri wrote:
Who the hell says that any market needs "saving"?

zhangyue wrote:
Who the hell said that?

The tone of your posts infer that the DSLR market cannot be saved, while claiming that Canon/Nikon AF "lens value will drop like a rock". And you "doubt big DSLR Manual lens [sic] can keep their value".
Which is all well and good to profess your faith in. But so what? Nothing stays the same for long, and in viewing it so starkly I think you are missing the point of the market moving towards something more amorphous and less defined by specific segments, types or systems. So again, does anything need "saving", or conversely if viewed from the other side of the fence (presumably your yard) does a certain market need to die?

sirimiri wrote:
Systems and markets evolve. Phrases such as "formal death judgment day" and "take over" or " save the whole DSLR section" are sensationalist hyperbole.

zhangyue wrote:
Evolve to what? I miss your point if there is any?

Evolution is self-evident, which is the point I make above and re-state here, as well as my comment about exagerrated descriptions. What's to miss?

sirimiri wrote:
And what of it? Use what you own, own what you use and don't bother thinking about perceived or inherent value.

zhangyue wrote:It is a 'prediction' as title implied. Who the hell said people are bother thinking about perceived or inherent value. Even with that in mind, what is wrong? Did I force you bother think of that?

Zhangyue, of course I have read the title and understand your explicit meaning. But you're also of the heavily implicit stance that dollar values tied to gear are changing, and seem a little smug about it. Your inference is there for all to see, as you talked about value in both 35mm format AF lenses, and undefined medifum format lens systems, as well as 35mm (full-frame) digital bodies.

I don't see it in terms of black or white, so there is not right nor wrong to this thread. I am not bothered thinking about it nor obliged in any way.

sirimiri wrote:
I'm of the opinion, that though it happens in slow motion, the real disturbance that rearranges things, is the one you never see coming. Let it come, and in the meantime:

zhangyue wrote:'What' happened in slow motion? if you mean mirrorless, I see nothing conflict between us, why argue.

I have no comment.

sirimiri wrote:
Shoot, don't speculate.

zhangyue wrote:
There are image threads, nobody stop you shooting. This is discuss thread with name 'prediction' and 'discuss'. Why can't I speculate?

I believe you have misunderstood the use of "speculate" here, as I am speaking from the economic standpoint.

Feb 02, 2013 at 09:00 PM

Johnny B Goode
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p.7 #13 · A prediction for camera industry for discuss here Alt board

Jon Tainton wrote:

A sensor with 'tilt' capability would be interesting.

Brilliant.

Feb 02, 2013 at 11:21 PM

edwardkaraa
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p.7 #14 · A prediction for camera industry for discuss here Alt board

mpmendenhall wrote:
edwardkaraa wrote:
Any camera with ibis function should theoretically be able to do some sensor shift. I wonder why it is not implemented.

Preventing tens of pixels of blur (thus being able to move the sensor by enough to add/remove tens of pixels image area around the borders) produces an impressive amount of image stabilization, but not a particularly useful amount of shift. The large movement scales necessary for "useful" sensor shift require a very different mechanical setup than the very small, fine adjustments for image stabilization.

I guess that also depends on the FL. Wide angles need only minimal shift to reduce blur, or to control perspective, while telephotos require large sensor shifts. Maybe that is why IBIS is not so effective with teles.

Feb 03, 2013 at 07:04 PM

rattymouse
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p.7 #15 · A prediction for camera industry for discuss here Alt board

kewlcanon wrote:
..and he started NeXT..what happened ?.

He built NeXT into one of the most common forms of UNIX ever made. NeXTSTEP is, of course, the engine behind Mac OS X. A HUGE part of Steve Jobs' success is the work he did at NeXT.

Feb 04, 2013 at 10:29 AM

carstenw
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p.7 #16 · A prediction for camera industry for discuss here Alt board

Don't reignite the fire please!

Feb 04, 2013 at 10:39 AM

kewlcanon
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p.7 #17 · A prediction for camera industry for discuss here Alt board

I know it's incorporated to MacOS. I was talking about NeXT by its own as a corporation. Did it takeoff ?.

Feb 04, 2013 at 10:51 AM

carstenw
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p.7 #18 · A prediction for camera industry for discuss here Alt board

YES!

Feb 04, 2013 at 11:35 AM

Tanegashima
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p.7 #19 · A prediction for camera industry for discuss here Alt board

I just want a digital camera just like the hasselblad model.

I would like a 24mm*24mm sensor (enough for most, I think), and mirror less, and has pretty nice small lenses. And has a LCD pointing up, and can be used like a DSLR too via an add-on EVF.

That's all.

And yes, I dont want that small powershot n, that's not even close to a cube.

Feb 06, 2013 at 06:35 AM

carstenw
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p.7 #20 · A prediction for camera industry for discuss here Alt board

Did you see the cool little Samsung prototype from a while back?

http://www.electronista.com/articles/11/05/17/possible.designs.shown.without.much.explanation/

Feb 06, 2013 at 08:56 AM

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