M240 Full Res Samples

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M240 Full Res Samples

joe88
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p.16 #1 · M240 Full Res Samples

rattymouse wrote:
How long are your vacations? I did a mostly film only holiday last week in Japan. I came back with 20 rolls of 120 film shot. $4X20= $80 in film costs. I shipped them off for processing for a total cost of around $100.

$180 buys one crappy digital camera.

Every day the anticipation is building for when the developed film comes back. Can't wait.

One week vacation. Film cost alone was over $180. Developing and budget NCPS scanning, close to $300, plus I developed and scanned most of my B&W 120s. Lets just say it was fun but I won't do it again soon nor have the time at the moment. I actually brought along my M9 as a " backup" and shot a friend's wedding with it, else I would have spent more. Film is fun, it brought back memories when I was a young. Most of what I tool along..

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Feb 26, 2013 at 01:58 PM

douglasf13
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p.16 #2 · M240 Full Res Samples

rattymouse wrote:
edwardkaraa wrote:
Douglas, I'm also one of those who don't mind the loud shutter. In fact I'm not into taking sneaking shots and when I shoot people I want them to be fully aware of that. That is why I never understood the need for the discreet shutter noise.

Try shooting inside a Zen Temple while people are meditating. You'll quickly find your focal plane shutter camera is 100% useless. While in Korea I was in a beautiful Zen temple and was able to shoot over 100 shots without anyone even knowing I was doing so, because I had my Fuji X100, a TOTALLY silent camera.

While obviously not nearly as silent as my old X100, using the M9's discreet mode works ok, since you can separate the click and rewind sound. I think that a lot of us shooters think cameras are louder than the really are, because the thing is right up against our face, making the noise seem unusually loud.

Feb 26, 2013 at 02:33 PM

Bijltje
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p.16 #3 · M240 Full Res Samples

rattymouse wrote:
edwardkaraa wrote:
Douglas, I'm also one of those who don't mind the loud shutter. In fact I'm not into taking sneaking shots and when I shoot people I want them to be fully aware of that. That is why I never understood the need for the discreet shutter noise.

Try shooting inside a Zen Temple while people are meditating. You'll quickly find your focal plane shutter camera is 100% useless. While in Korea I was in a beautiful Zen temple and was able to shoot over 100 shots without anyone even knowing I was doing so, because I had my Fuji X100, a TOTALLY silent camera.

Thats what the discreet mode is for. Works great and nobody ever noticed.

Feb 26, 2013 at 03:23 PM

rscheffler
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p.16 #4 · M240 Full Res Samples

Discreet is OK, but doesn't do much for the KA-lunk sound of the M9's shutter, which has a specific sound that can be noticed in otherwise slightly noisy environments. Probably because it's too distinct from other background noise types.

Another silent solution is the GXR M module set to electronic shutter mode.

Feb 26, 2013 at 05:35 PM

Toothwalker
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p.16 #5 · M240 Full Res Samples

rattymouse wrote:
$180 buys one crappy digital camera.

So does $7000, apparently.

Feb 26, 2013 at 05:37 PM

Bobu
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p.16 #6 · M240 Full Res Samples

thrice wrote:
Imagine getting fully invested into Leica glass expecting them to manufacture a camera system unlike their forte or tradition. Insanity.

So you are calling me insane Dan ;-)

Never mind, I didn't regret the experience with the M system in the last two years. I know now pretty well the strengths and weaknesses of this system. And I think the chance that Leica would release a new M camera which is perfectly suited for landscape photography was better than 50%.
I assume that I won't loose a lot of money selling the M lenses and I had expected and calculated the costs for upgrading the M9 bodies to whatever camera. I still like Leica as a company and many of their products, they are just not developing in the direction I had hoped for.

Boris

Feb 26, 2013 at 07:00 PM

Bobu
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p.16 #7 · M240 Full Res Samples

rscheffler wrote:
I think the Munich store is a company store, and the atmosphere there is definitely not one that pushes you to make a purchase.

I don't think that the Munich store is a company store. It belongs to Meister, a big german Leica dealer who has also stores in Hamburg and Berlin. Maybe Leica is more involved in the Munich store than in other stores, but I'm pretty sure that the main owner is Meister and not Leica.

By the way I bought all my Leica equipment at this store and can really recommend it.

Boris

Feb 26, 2013 at 07:05 PM

rscheffler
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p.16 #8 · M240 Full Res Samples

Boris, thanks for the clarification! Whoever the owner is, they're doing a great job, IMO.

In case anyone is interested, Sean Reid gives his M impressions over at Luminous Landscape.

Feb 26, 2013 at 07:13 PM

Bobu
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p.16 #9 · M240 Full Res Samples

thrice wrote:
carstenw wrote:
The clear tell-tale signs that the M9 was still too IR sensitive. That just killed me.

I think they got the IR sensitivity perfect on the M9. It has never affected a single shot except when I use an IR pass filter for deliberate effect. Something you cannot do as successfully with other digital cameras.

Can you give me information or an example of the M9 having problems with IR in real world shooting? If you link Digilloyd I will try and throttle you through your computer monitor

The M9 has very high sensitivity to IR light. Under normal shooting conditions I never had problems, but if you use strong ND filters (which I do quite often) you get strange colors with the M9. I stopped using the ND 3.0 with the M9 due to this behavior. The ND 1.8 is the strongest ND filter I would recommend for the M9. Not a big deal for most people, but if you love to shoot moving/flowing water with long exposures it can be a problem.

Here is an example from my Patagonia trip (an image which I really like, but nevertheless with some strange colors to due a strong IR effect):

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Boris

Feb 26, 2013 at 07:16 PM

Bijltje
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p.16 #10 · M240 Full Res Samples

Bobu wrote:
rscheffler wrote:
I think the Munich store is a company store, and the atmosphere there is definitely not one that pushes you to make a purchase.

I don't think that the Munich store is a company store. It belongs to Meister, a big german Leica dealer who has also stores in Hamburg and Berlin. Maybe Leica is more involved in the Munich store than in other stores, but I'm pretty sure that the main owner is Meister and not Leica.

By the way I bought all my Leica equipment at this store and can really recommend it.

Boris

Second on the meister stores. Great service and good prices.

Also, their own M9P meisterstuck looks awesome.
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Unfortunately the special hood for this 28 cron doesn't fit the standard 28 cron. So isn't a cheap alternative for the uberexpensive 12466

Feb 26, 2013 at 07:52 PM

thrice
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p.16 #11 · M240 Full Res Samples

Bobu wrote:
thrice wrote:
carstenw wrote:
The clear tell-tale signs that the M9 was still too IR sensitive. That just killed me.

I think they got the IR sensitivity perfect on the M9. It has never affected a single shot except when I use an IR pass filter for deliberate effect. Something you cannot do as successfully with other digital cameras.

Can you give me information or an example of the M9 having problems with IR in real world shooting? If you link Digilloyd I will try and throttle you through your computer monitor

Boris

This is shot with an ND1.8 stacked with a CPL.
I've stacked two ND1.8's before but cannot find the images, I'll try it again if I get time.
I'd check your ND's for colour cast.

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Feb 26, 2013 at 09:48 PM

zhangyue
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p.16 #12 · M240 Full Res Samples

Boris, I feel the shot you supply has slightly overexposure (under my uncalibrated work monitor) and yellow tint in green can be tweaked by slightly move the green hue to the right side in LR4 make it greener.

I have been complained for a while and agree M9's color can go wild. (some time, is not simple WB can correct.) I also suspected that has something to do with extra sensitive to IR. But never be able to prove it with limited time and knowledge. I seems remember Put's review of M9 and M8, the black of M9 still has purple tint compare to D3X.

Feb 26, 2013 at 09:58 PM

carstenw
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p.16 #13 · M240 Full Res Samples

Daniel, have you done a test with the M9 shooting some different kinds of black textiles, especially at a wedding or similar? Try with and without hot mirror filter. It would of course be ideal if there were deep purples and reds in the shot as well, and if you could shoot with some well-known DSLR also. I appreciate you may not have all this equipment around

I got unlucky, and in my in-store test shots were several which I deemed unacceptable, given that I wanted to rid myself of the filters.

Feb 26, 2013 at 10:00 PM

Bobu
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p.16 #14 · M240 Full Res Samples

ND 1.8 stacked with a CPL is normally not a problem (I assume that a CPL blocks more IR light than a ND filter of similar strength, but I'm not sure). But with two ND 1.8 combined you should see the IR effect, at least on a midday shot with lots of IR light.

On longer focal length lenses (for example 35mm) I often used the same combo (ND 1.8 + CPL) instead of the ND 3.0 in the past but this doesn't work with the 21mm SEM without serious vignetting.

Boris

Feb 26, 2013 at 10:02 PM

carstenw
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p.16 #15 · M240 Full Res Samples

Just to give a base to measure against, this is a selfie on tripod with no attempt at focusing with an early M8. My fleece sweater was pure black, and new at the time, i.e. not even faded. My skin was also less ruddy at the time.

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Feb 26, 2013 at 10:04 PM

carstenw
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p.16 #16 · M240 Full Res Samples

More black attire, less flattering shot. Ironically, the black cap is a Leica cap. The t-shirt is also pure black.

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Feb 26, 2013 at 10:06 PM

Bobu
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p.16 #17 · M240 Full Res Samples

zhangyue wrote:
Boris, I feel the shot you supply has slightly overexposure (under my uncalibrated work monitor) and yellow tint in green can be tweaked by slightly move the green hue to the right side in LR4 make it greener.

I have been complained for a while and agree M9's color can go wild. (some time, is not simple WB can correct.) I also suspected that has something to do with extra sensitive to IR. But never be able to prove it with limited time and knowledge. I seems remember Put's review of M9 and M8, the black of M9 still has purple tint compare to D3X.

It's possible to compensate this effect partly by adjusting the hue of individual colors (which I sometimes do), but according to my experience it is often not possible to get back the full color spectrum on such images.

Boris

Feb 26, 2013 at 10:07 PM

Toothwalker
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p.16 #18 · M240 Full Res Samples

Bobu wrote:
zhangyue wrote:
Boris, I feel the shot you supply has slightly overexposure (under my uncalibrated work monitor) and yellow tint in green can be tweaked by slightly move the green hue to the right side in LR4 make it greener.

I have been complained for a while and agree M9's color can go wild. (some time, is not simple WB can correct.) I also suspected that has something to do with extra sensitive to IR. But never be able to prove it with limited time and knowledge. I seems remember Put's review of M9 and M8, the black of M9 still has purple tint compare to D3X.

It's possible to compensate this effect partly by adjusting the hue of individual colors (which I sometimes do), but according to my experience it is often not possible to get back the full color spectrum on such images.

Boris

It is difficult to get natural colors with strong ND filters, even without the possible contribution of infrared light, because these filters don't have a flat response over the visible part of the spectrum. I still have a couple of pinkish slides resulting from an ND filter.

Feb 26, 2013 at 10:44 PM

douglasf13
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p.16 #19 · M240 Full Res Samples

carstenw wrote:
More black attire, less flattering shot. Ironically, the black cap is a Leica cap. The t-shirt is also pure black.

This image is copyrighted by the owner

What I was seeing with the M9 still had enough traces of this behaviour that I didn't want one. If they fixed this in firmware, rather than on the sensor, I don't think anyone could convince me that the colours would be right.

Carsten, Leica used a thicker IR filter on the M9. I've not seen any issues with purple-y blacks in clothing at all. Here is a throwaway shot that I had with black clothing in it. This is just a flat export out of LR4, without any adjustments (except for an exposure adjustment.)

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Feb 26, 2013 at 11:07 PM

thrice
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p.16 #20 · M240 Full Res Samples

You might want to invest in an IR-cut ND filter Boris.
Even the D800 has issues with strong ND's.
http://www.getdpi.com/forum/nikon/40632-nikon-d800-issues-when-using-10-nd-filter.html

Feb 27, 2013 at 03:48 AM

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