I have decided to call out people putting labels on others because if I don't it seems not many others will. That kind of thing is a personal attack vs. a helpful exchange of experience and opinion.
"But hey, I do have a Nikon Fanboy club membership card ready "
He put the label on himself, should he perform self flagellation to make up for his crime?
I have decided to call out people putting labels on others because if I don't it seems not many others will. That kind of thing is a personal attack vs. a helpful exchange of experience and opinion.
"But hey, I do have a Nikon Fanboy club membership card ready "
He put the label on himself, should he perform self flagellation to make up for his crime?
Ok, well I apologize for reading it incorrectly. I will perform some self flaggellation in penance.
Yes, but he used mules to carry his gear. You have experience lugging gear with elevation gains of 2000 meters and distances of 15-20km. If you do, you know what I am talking about. IF not, you have no idea.
I'm not sure what the heck you are talking about. Do you really think a Pentax 645D or a Mamiya with a Leaf back or any one of the Hassys weigh that much more than a 1Dx or a fully loaded 5D III or D800 set-up? And you seem to have some hostility in your replies to anyone who disagrees with the OP. Don't take it personally that you can't get good photos from your present Canon gear. There are many who can't. You should sell all of your Canon gear and switch now. Then maybe you'll be happy, but I doubt it.
saneproduction wrote:
I have decided to call out people putting labels on others because if I don't it seems not many others will. That kind of thing is a personal attack vs. a helpful exchange of experience and opinion.
Does this mean I should not label you as a self-appointed moderator
As for the title of this thread, I have yet to see any helpful exchange of experience and opinion that answers that question. Maybe because such a vague hypothetical question has no answer from members here?
chez wrote:
Ralph...how do you know Canon won't need 4 years to release as capable sensor as the D800 has. Just because or wishful thinking or...?
Not really wishfull thinking, chez. I do not need it.
But Canon develops their own sensors and was leading in this field over the past decade. Some people believe they are lazy and sleeping now, but I do not think so. The slighly better IQ of 6D than 5D III in high ISO shows, they still investigate in sensor performance and take it for serious. They already had designed 50 and 100MP sensors afir. Four years means one - two camera generations. I expect they will not need so long to catch or Sony in performance.
It seems that people that have used both 5DMk3/1Dx and the D800/e really likes the improved DR, and those extra pixels. Canon have two really neat cameras in the 5D3 and 1Dx... but I would love to see them stuff a "modern" senors in these... Now that Sony and Toshiba have the capability to produce these FF sensors, what would Canon loose to have their first generation production outsourced??
If Canon has the know-how but lacks the machinery to produce in quantities, outsourcing would help them to be on top again and stay there whilst getting their fabs back into shape.
Canon thinks long term, longer term than even most Japan companies, companies that are notorious for thinking long term.
Proof is the switch to EOS which occurred in 1987. Other companies like Nikon in particular switched in stages to try to maintain a semblance of compatibility. The result is that they have a hodge-podge of compatibilities and systems, some with shaft drives, some not, and so on.
Canon by contrast had the vision and foresight and courage to create a superior modern mount system in one revolutionary changeover: all-electronic, shallow mount for wide acceptance of third party lenses, and wide mouth to accomodate modern wide aperture lens designs. It has proven to be a very wise decision.
Now, Canon is similarly playing the long game. They have excellent cameras, a fully fleshed out line, and superb lenses. They may not the ultimate in sensors, but their image quality (beauty) for the 99% of photographs that working photographers make and the 99.9% that amateur make are top tier.
The long game right now is that Canon is leap-frogging over the companies that invested in 350, 250, and 180 nm fab processes and technology while Canon went straight to 180 nm. Their fab line is already producing small sensors in cameras sold by Canon.
I'm patient. I have two capable DSLRs that excellently do their part in making photographs. The rest is up to me.
Just read this discussion since I was busy most of the weekend with photography (using effectively my 5D IIs ). Discussed here in this forum many times with mostly the same people defending Canon's product line/plans and others who see the lack of a D800(E) competitor. I expressed my opinion in this regard several times before, but I agree with both camps that there is nothing new to tell.
M Lucca wrote:
Fact of the matter is Canon has no answer to Nikon at the moment because noen of their cameras leak oil and shed dust on their sensor.
Actually that's not strictly accurate (Independance day ).... my 1D4 got some lovely oil spots on the sensor. Should probably get them removed, but since I got my 5D3, I dont use the 1D4 for landscape (smaller than f/8) any more so its not an issue. Just a thought though, it hasn't got any more since so maybe it was just something from the factory.
Sarsfield wrote:
I'm not sure what the heck you are talking about. Do you really think a Pentax 645D or a Mamiya with a Leaf back or any one of the Hassys weigh that much more than a 1Dx or a fully loaded 5D III or D800 set-up? And you seem to have some hostility in your replies to anyone who disagrees with the OP. Don't take it personally that you can't get good photos from your present Canon gear. There are many who can't. You should sell all of your Canon gear and switch now. Then maybe you'll be happy, but I doubt it. ...Show more →
You obviously have never carried your gear over great distances with large elevation gains...so you have no idea what you are talking about. The weight of a Pentax645D system along with the gamut of lens carries a substantial weight, not to mention a substantial price tag. Much too much on both counts.
And who says I am not happy with the photos I produce with my current gear? That does not mean I cannot strive to produce even better photos...now does it. A higher mpix camera with better dynamic range will allow e to produce a better end result...just like a 5d3 with it's better AF has enabled people to produce better results. Is this that hard for you to grasp?
I have a sick feeling that the Nikonians are laughing themselves silly at the internecine hostilities a single goofy question has roiled in the Canon forum.
chez wrote:
And who says I am not happy with the photos I produce with my current gear? That does not mean I cannot strive to produce even better photos...now does it. A higher mpix camera with better dynamic range will allow e to produce a better end result...just like a 5d3 with it's better AF has enabled people to produce better results. Is this that hard for you to grasp?
I don't think there is anything wrong with that but Canon simply does not share your priority. Can you really blame them? I would bet that the vast majority of Canon users are far more concerned with high ISO performance then low ISO DR. Canon seems to mirror that. I would say that adding a D800E and a 14-24 to your collection of gear would be your best bet to happiness until Canon catches up.
ggreene wrote:
I don't think there is anything wrong with that but Canon simply does not share your priority. Can you really blame them? I would bet that the vast majority of Canon users are far more concerned with high ISO performance then low ISO DR. Canon seems to mirror that. I would say that adding a D800E and a 14-24 to your collection of gear would be your best bet to happiness until Canon catches up.
Tend to agree with that. You're right that it's your priority Chez and it's right that it important to you by the sounds of it. I've said before I think Canon has got the focus right - most photographers aren't as bothered.
However I do hope they catch up - not for my sake ('cos I hardly ever need it) but for yours..
And to make the further point, if your cashflow can cope with it, I'm sure you could buy a d800 + 12-24 and sell them again for about 1/2 to 2/3rd of what you bought them for in 1-2 years?
ggreene wrote:
I don't think there is anything wrong with that but Canon simply does not share your priority. Can you really blame them? I would bet that the vast majority of Canon users are far more concerned with high ISO performance then low ISO DR. Canon seems to mirror that. I would say that adding a D800E and a 14-24 to your collection of gear would be your best bet to happiness until Canon catches up.
+1
I don't mean to include chez, but it seems there is an aversion by some members to the simplicity of your solution. I agree: why not buy an additional camera and lens to satisfy a need? It's only gear, not a religion. I did that back when Canon only offered an FD 35 TS lens and I needed wider -- so bought a Nikon FE2 and their 28 PC lens (until selling my FD and Nikon gear and switching to Canon EOS and the 24 TS-E). I didn't buy any other Nikon lenses, and continued to use 4x5 as my main camera, backed up by the Canon and Nikon 35mm's.
Lucky for me the D800 doesn't accept my EOS lenses.
To answer the original poster, yes. Probably in another 1-1.5 years. I agree this topic is beat to death, if Canon doesn't realize by now their sensors are lagging behind the competition, they never will. I'm glad I didn't wait, my gut instinct was that nothing was in the immediate pipeline at Canon due to the wording of the 1DX press release. 8 months later of shooting with the D800, seems like I was right.
In the meanwhile, just buy a D800/D800e. If you don't like it, return it. If you like it, keep it. I kept mine.
pookipichu wrote:
To answer the original poster, yes. Probably in another 1-1.5 years. I agree this topic is beat to death, if Canon doesn't realize by now their sensors are lagging behind the competition, they never will. I'm glad I didn't wait, my gut instinct was that nothing was in the immediate pipeline at Canon due to the wording of the 1DX press release. 8 months later of shooting with the D800, seems like I was right.
In the meanwhile, just buy a D800/D800e. If you don't like it, return it. If you like it, keep it. I kept mine.
I think this is the best pragmatic answer. Not sure even meanwhile if this will happen in 1-1.5 years, at least for a camera in the 5D series price segment. And if we see it, it might be then again behind the next FF model of Nikon - if Nikon is smart, they announce soon the successor of the D800 with even more improvements, who knows. It is a catch-up game in this league for Canon now and this is never easy. I am also considering to add new camera and lens gear from other brands to my existing Canon gear.
time2clmb wrote:
Post photos using 4 different cameras, 2 from Canon, 2 from Nikon. I'd put my money on you not being able to tell which one was shot with which camera. The differences are pretty small these days to the point of totally nit picking. When did photography become all about the gear? Rediculous.
Oh yeah! Let's get a " Mystery Shopper" thread going, that will be interesting!
