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RCicala
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p.13 #1 · Metabones Speed Booster

theSuede wrote:
Roger:
Did you shoot any category 1 comparisons? Someone in this thread said so, but I can't find anything like that on your blog. Thank you for the blog, anyway - it's a brilliant resource nowadays - I hope it furthers the knowledge of your customers, and maybe also bring you more customers due to public exposure.

I did not, I'm afraid. I figured it will be only a short amount of time before people more qualified than I will have a lot of good comparisons up. My thought is it's going to take dozens of people contributing with hundreds of combinations before we have a good handle on how best to use this new tool.

Jan 23, 2013 at 01:00 AM

Dudewithoutape
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p.13 #2 · Metabones Speed Booster

Thanks Roger for the initial tests! What does Category 1 mean?

Jan 23, 2013 at 02:47 AM

theSuede
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p.13 #3 · Metabones Speed Booster

Heh, the quote took that out of sequence...
"Category 1" was comparing an APS camera with adapter vs the same lens on a native FF format camera.

Jan 23, 2013 at 02:56 AM

mawz
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p.13 #4 · Metabones Speed Booster

Dudewithoutape wrote:
Amsterdem, I believe the focal length stays the same, merely you lose the crop factor, so the 50mm MP is actually a 50mm MP rather than a ~80mm MP and certainly not a 35mm MP. Or are you trying to say its like a 35mm MP was attached to your body, thereby making it 50mm again?

I'm afraid not.

Focal length is a physical property of the lens. The only way to alter focal length is with a teleconverter or telecompressor. The former increases focal length by a multiplier, and reduces the maximum aperture by the same multiplier (as the physical aperture remains the same). The latter does the opposite, focal length is reduced and maximum aperture is increased.

The Speed Booster is a Telecompressor combined with a mount adapter. It does indeed reduce focal length and increase lens maximum aperture. this is possible since aperture is simply the ratio of the focal length to the physical aperture and the former is decreasing, which decreases the ratio.

For example, a 50mm f2 lens has a physical aperture of 25mm, the speed booster multiplies the focal length by 0.71, giving a new focal length of 35.5mm. 35.5/25 is 1.478, so the new aperture of the lens is f1.48 (given the multiplier, you are getting slightly less than a stop because the ratio of APS-C to FF varies by a small amount depending on the specific sensor and Metabones picked a nice round number in the possible range but one that is slightly less than a full stop, also a 50mm on FF is not exactly the same FoV as a 35mm on APS-C).

Crop factors are merely a convenient short hand to match Field of View between 135 format SLR and DSLR's and the various smaller APS and 4/3" format sensors in use today. Your 50mm lens does not become a 75mm lens when mounted on a 1.5x crop body, it merely has the same Field of View on 1.5x crop as a 75mm lens has on a 35mm body.

Jan 23, 2013 at 03:56 AM

alundeb
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p.13 #5 · Metabones Speed Booster

RCicala wrote:
My thought is it's going to take dozens of people contributing with hundreds of combinations before we have a good handle on how best to use this new tool.

Thanks for a good start on this!

I suggest that we try to find or establish a good place to collect links to different tests, comparisons and sample images.

Jan 23, 2013 at 11:45 AM

Ed Sawyer
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p.13 #6 · Metabones Speed Booster

No one said it was impossible, and it's not like it's a new idea. It's been around for decades. It's new to the digital photography crowd but has existed for years in other realms of photography.

And an idea is worthless without the means to implement it, realistically. (not that this was a new idea...)

The white paper and Roger's results both bear out what can be seen in the MTF graphs: you get better MTF in the center in exchange for poorer MTF in the corners (generally). Still no free lunch. ;-)

-Ed

cogitech wrote:
I came up with this idea several years back and everyone around here said it was impossible.

I should learn to trust my intuition. Once again I let go a million-dallar idea.

Jan 23, 2013 at 10:22 PM

Jeff Kott
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p.13 #7 · Metabones Speed Booster

Sorry if I missed it, but does anyone know when the F mount to E mount SB is expected to be available?

Jan 24, 2013 at 12:02 AM

jcolwell
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p.13 #8 · Metabones Speed Booster

Ed Sawyer wrote:
...And an idea is worthless without the means to implement it, realistically...

Without the idea, there is nothing.

Without the idea, there is nothing that needs "the means to implement it".

Jan 24, 2013 at 01:18 AM

_julian_
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p.13 #9 · Metabones Speed Booster

Lens Rentals testing and results

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/01/metabones-magic

Jan 24, 2013 at 05:03 AM

alwang
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p.13 #10 · Metabones Speed Booster

Ed Sawyer wrote:
No one said it was impossible, and it's not like it's a new idea. It's been around for decades. It's new to the digital photography crowd but has existed for years in other realms of photography.

And an idea is worthless without the means to implement it, realistically. (not that this was a new idea...)

The white paper and Roger's results both bear out what can be seen in the MTF graphs: you get better MTF in the center in exchange for poorer MTF in the corners (generally). Still no free lunch. ;-)

Thing is, Roger's results don't bear that out. At least in his comparison, the NEX+SB had higher average MTFs in the corners compared to the same lens on a 5dmk2. Of course, that was one lens, so we'll wait for more tests before we get too excited.

Jan 24, 2013 at 05:58 AM

dolina
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p.13 #11 · Metabones Speed Booster

800/5.6 = 568/4
600/4 = 426/2.8
500/4 = 355/2.8
400/2.8 = 284/2
300/2.8 = 213/2
200/2 = 142/1.4
180/3.5 = 127.8/2.5
135/2 = 95.85/1.4
100/2.8 = 71/2
85/1.2 = 60.35/0.9
70/2.8 = 49.7/2
50/1.4 = 35.5/1
40/2.8 = 28.4/2
35/1.4 = 24.85/1
35/2.8 = 24.85/2
24/1.4 = 17.04/1
17/4 = 12.07/2.8
16/2.8 = 11.36/2
14/2.8 = 9.94/2
15/4 = 10.65/2.8
8/4 = 5.68/2.8

Jan 24, 2013 at 06:01 AM

thrice
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p.13 #12 · Metabones Speed Booster

Since I enjoy being the turd in the punchbowl I must point out my issue with all these people saying "omg it's like shooting with a 35/0.9 lens" when shooting a 50/1.2 on APS-C with the speedbooster.

Sure, it's like shooting with a 35/0.9 lens ON APS-C but it's exactly like shooting with a 50/1.2 on full frame in terms of rendering.
And since full frame sensors of the same tech generally offer at least one stop better noise performance... you get my point.

Don't get me wrong, it's a great technology but it's not giving us an optical result never-before-seen.
I can shoot my 135/3.5 on 4x5 and it's like shooting 35/0.9 on full frame in terms of rendering, which IMO looks much more interesting.

Jan 24, 2013 at 06:13 AM

JimBuchanan
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p.13 #13 · Metabones Speed Booster

Quite true.

For example, this principle is very common in telescopes, to get a faster speed system for shorter exposures and wider field of views. However, the scope manufacturers had produced these reducers specific to their own scope f/ratios and focal lengths.

I wonder how effective a likewise solution would be on a wide range of focal length lenses and aperture ranges.

Ed Sawyer wrote:
No one said it was impossible, and it's not like it's a new idea. It's been around for decades. It's new to the digital photography crowd but has existed for years in other realms of photography.

And an idea is worthless without the means to implement it, realistically. (not that this was a new idea...)

The white paper and Roger's results both bear out what can be seen in the MTF graphs: you get better MTF in the center in exchange for poorer MTF in the corners (generally). Still no free lunch. ;-)

-Ed

cogitech wrote:
I came up with this idea several years back and everyone around here said it was impossible.

I should learn to trust my intuition. Once again I let go a million-dallar idea.

Jan 24, 2013 at 06:29 AM

alundeb
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p.13 #14 · Metabones Speed Booster

thrice wrote:
Since I enjoy being the turd in the punchbowl I must point out my issue with all these people saying "omg it's like shooting with a 35/0.9 lens" when shooting a 50/1.2 on APS-C with the speedbooster.

Sure, it's like shooting with a 35/0.9 lens ON APS-C but it's exactly like shooting with a 50/1.2 on full frame in terms of rendering.
And since full frame sensors of the same tech generally offer at least one stop better noise performance... you get my point.

Don't get me wrong, it's a great technology but it's not giving us an optical result never-before-seen.
I can shoot my 135/3.5 on 4x5 and it's like shooting 35/0.9 on full frame in terms of rendering, which IMO looks much more interesting.

No turd worries, I don't think many of us drink that "magic" punch anyway

I would love a digital 4x5 camera with a size suitable for street photo or mountain hiking, and with tiltable LCD and focus peaking

None of these properties are avaliable in any FF camera that takes EF mount lenses anyway.

Jan 24, 2013 at 08:12 AM

Makten
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p.13 #15 · Metabones Speed Booster

thrice wrote:
And since full frame sensors of the same tech generally offer at least one stop better noise performance... you get my point.

The only reason the Speedbooster exists is that the manufacturers refuse to make small FF bodies.

Jan 24, 2013 at 10:19 AM

ken.vs.ryu
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p.13 #16 · Metabones Speed Booster

They do at a cost, the unknown leica m240.

Jan 24, 2013 at 10:28 AM

dolina
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p.13 #17 · Metabones Speed Booster

Anyone have an idea how the t-number will be affected by this? F-number will increase thus a thinner DoF but what about the transmitted light to the sensor?

How about vignetting?

Jan 24, 2013 at 11:08 AM

alundeb
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p.13 #18 · Metabones Speed Booster

dolina wrote:
Anyone have an idea how the t-number will be affected by this? F-number will increase thus a thinner DoF but what about the transmitted light to the sensor?

Both the F-number and the T-number will be modified with the same factor 0,71. The T-number will get a small, probably negligible, loss through the added glass.

Jan 24, 2013 at 11:24 AM

mawz
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p.13 #19 · Metabones Speed Booster

Makten wrote:
thrice wrote:
And since full frame sensors of the same tech generally offer at least one stop better noise performance... you get my point.

The only reason the Speedbooster exists is that the manufacturers refuse to make small FF bodies.

Not the only reason, since there are at least 2 small FF bodies (RX1 and M9/M monochrome), but a large one. The other reason is that the price of a Speed Booster is significantly smaller than the price premium of going FF over APS-C.

Jan 24, 2013 at 02:25 PM

aleksanderpolo
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p.13 #20 · Metabones Speed Booster

Since one cannot use RF lens, we are basically comparing NEX+SB with 6D:

NEX6+SB: $848+$599 = $1447
6D: $2099

16MP vs 20MP not a lot of difference

Size:
Same thickness from mount to sensor

Weight:
NEX6+SB: 286g+~200g =~500g
6D: 770g

There is actually not a lot of size saving once you take into account the dominating size of the SLR lens needed. For the money saved you are giving up native AF, better grip and balance, and some loss in image quality, in exchange for better video (?)... it is not compelling enough for me... so I will keep waiting for the elusive FF non M.

Jan 24, 2013 at 05:45 PM

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