Zeiss 135/2 APO available for pre-order at B&H

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TSY87
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p.3 #1 · Zeiss 135/2 APO available for pre-order at B&H

I find wider lenses harder to focus because in the viewfinder, it is harder to tell what is actually in critical focus vs what you see in the viewfinder.

With longer lenses, to me, focus is more apparent when you get it right... It also helps that I have the magnified viewfinder from nikon.

Jan 20, 2013 at 09:09 AM

Toothwalker
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p.3 #2 · Zeiss 135/2 APO available for pre-order at B&H

mMontag wrote:
US pricing for the Zeiss - $2,100 & Canon - $989 usd - used Canons between $650-750 are pretty common.

Though the Contax 35 & 85 may not look strong in the center on paper & charts - view them side by side at 1.4 with others of the same FL - you'll really like what you see!

Yes, subjective - I know :-)

Yes, even sharpness is subjective. Had you mentioned resolution, however ... :-)

That is a price ratio of 2.1; I checked a few vendors in Europe and over here the ratio is between 1.5 and 1.6.

Jan 20, 2013 at 11:53 AM

Toothwalker
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p.3 #3 · Zeiss 135/2 APO available for pre-order at B&H

hiepphotog wrote:
gasrocks wrote:
Again, to me the main reason to get the ZE 135 is APO, not bokeh or sharpness.

Indeed, though having the other two would be a great bonus as well. I don't doubt that the 135 would excel in all of these areas.

Apochromatic color correction is employed to improve resolution and contrast. Many would people would call this increased sharpness. It is funny sounding that someone wants the correction but not necessarily the improvement. A reduction in defocus color fringing is a possible side effect, but since you are excluding bokeh as well I am really curious: What do you guys mean by APO?

Jan 20, 2013 at 12:27 PM

carstenw
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p.3 #4 · Zeiss 135/2 APO available for pre-order at B&H

He is not saying that he wants the lens without the sharpness or boke improvements, just that this isn't the main reason for him to be interested. He is interested in the reduced colour aberrations though.

Jan 20, 2013 at 01:10 PM

Toothwalker
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p.3 #5 · Zeiss 135/2 APO available for pre-order at B&H

carstenw wrote:
He is not saying that he wants the lens without the sharpness or boke improvements, just that this isn't the main reason for him to be interested. He is interested in the reduced colour aberrations though.

The question is why he is interested in the reduced colour aberrations.

Jan 20, 2013 at 01:33 PM

Mescalamba
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p.3 #6 · Zeiss 135/2 APO available for pre-order at B&H

Nobody likes CA?

Jan 20, 2013 at 01:39 PM

gasrocks
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p.3 #7 · Zeiss 135/2 APO available for pre-order at B&H

If I did miss CA, I can get that with a lens costing less than $100.

My true APO set will be: Leica 100/2.8 macro, ZE 135/2, Sigma 150/2.8 OS macro, Leica 180/2. The mm range I use for 80% of my pix lately.

Jan 20, 2013 at 03:50 PM

carstenw
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p.3 #8 · Zeiss 135/2 APO available for pre-order at B&H

Toothwalker wrote:
carstenw wrote:
He is not saying that he wants the lens without the sharpness or boke improvements, just that this isn't the main reason for him to be interested. He is interested in the reduced colour aberrations though.

The question is why he is interested in the reduced colour aberrations.

Have you used the 100MP? It can be quite annoying.

Btw, gasrocks, the Leica 180/2 is not free from colour aberrations. It is relatively free in the plane of focus, however.

Jan 20, 2013 at 03:57 PM

Toothwalker
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p.3 #9 · Zeiss 135/2 APO available for pre-order at B&H

carstenw wrote:
Toothwalker wrote:
carstenw wrote:
He is not saying that he wants the lens without the sharpness or boke improvements, just that this isn't the main reason for him to be interested. He is interested in the reduced colour aberrations though.

The question is why he is interested in the reduced colour aberrations.

Have you used the 100MP?

Yes.

It can be quite annoying.

Still no answer.

Jan 20, 2013 at 04:50 PM

carstenw
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p.3 #10 · Zeiss 135/2 APO available for pre-order at B&H

Are you being facetious? Presumably the APO treatment will rid the lens of a bunch of unwanted colour in the plane of focus.

Jan 20, 2013 at 06:01 PM

Toothwalker
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p.3 #11 · Zeiss 135/2 APO available for pre-order at B&H

carstenw wrote:
Are you being facetious? Presumably the APO treatment will rid the lens of a bunch of unwanted colour in the plane of focus.

I am being a bit facetious, but mostly serious. It is not at all clear to me what people here mean by APO.

Apochromatism is a design strategy that can be used to improve the MTF. If we assume that Zeiss adopts the strict definition of APO, we are talking higher resolution, higher contrast, more sharpness. Less colour fringing in the plane of best focus is implied, less colour fringing in the blurred parts of the image is not implied but can be expected.

Your unwanted colour in the plane of focus is just one aspect of APO. I translate a sentence like "To me, the main reason to get the ZE 135 is APO, not bokeh or sharpness" as "To me, the main reason to get the ZE 135 is APO, not APO or APO".

Jan 20, 2013 at 08:17 PM

carstenw
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p.3 #12 · Zeiss 135/2 APO available for pre-order at B&H

I think that is just you

Too much analysis of a relatively straight-forward sentence. It could also read: "getting rid of colour aberrations is more important to me than sharpness or boke improvements". I don't think anyone was saying that they didn't want sharpness or boke improvements, just that they were of secondary importance. Yeah, the phrasing is not perfect, since APO probably implies all three, but not everyone knows that.

Jan 20, 2013 at 08:51 PM

Mescalamba
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p.3 #13 · Zeiss 135/2 APO available for pre-order at B&H

If Im correct CA is sorta tied together both in focus areas and out of focus. At least when in focus area is perfectly clean of CA, usually out of focus has quite low CA too.

My definition of APO would be probably 35-70mm for C/Y.

Im using simple logic that if you want to have super high resolution/contrast then you need to have those rays ending in same place not only in plane of focus but outside aswell.

I will just guess here, but I think with 135/2 most people expect bokeh somewhere around 135/1.8 or 135/2.8 STF. Cause with bad bokeh, Zeiss dont need to even make it.. for those two people which would buy it.

Jan 20, 2013 at 09:53 PM

philip_pj
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p.3 #14 · Zeiss 135/2 APO available for pre-order at B&H

People might come to like the focal length again, it was quite popular in the last century. I often wish for a little more when using a 100mm, but a prime is a big purchase for that odd occasion.

Leica's very good 80-200/4 (with a similar weight to this new one) is sensibly optimised for the mid point of around this FL. The new 135 APO would also make a fine APS-C telephoto for a solid DSLR rather than a NEX style camera.

Jan 20, 2013 at 10:25 PM

Blackout
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p.3 #15 · Zeiss 135/2 APO available for pre-order at B&H

magiclight wrote:
Yes, I will probably be a non starter due to no AF.

For this focal length, no AF certainly limits your photographic opportunities especially shooting wide open and this is where you are paying for performance.

I totally agree with people who say that (moderately) long focal length lenses are easier to focus manually due to the zone of sharp focus being much more apparent in the viewfinder, the rest being blurry. The APO correction should also help seeing the limits of said zone with precision compared to lenses with aberrations.

Overall I find 28/35/50mm lenses to require the most effort to focus manually. The 35/1.4 is particularly painful to focus accurately wide open unless the subject is very close. I've never tried to focus a 24/1.4 lens manually but it shouldn't be easy either.

Regarding the Zeiss 135 vs Canon 135 debate, first not everyone shoots Canon so it's not the obvious choice, then the Zeiss is likely to perform quite better than the Canon on future high-MP bodies in particular.
Also, the Canon is not APO, it's not nearly as well built, its manual focus operation is not nearly as smooth...
No doubt it will be a terrific tool for photographers who enjoy/need such qualities.

Jan 21, 2013 at 03:06 PM

kosmoskatten
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p.3 #16 · Zeiss 135/2 APO available for pre-order at B&H

My all time favorite focal lengths have always been 24/28, 60 and 135mm.

I have always preferred a nice 135 over a 180 so it will be interesting to see what the new Zeiss can deliver.

My top four:
Nikkor F 135/2 : great for portraits, a bit stiff to focus.
Contax 135/2: ok for portraits, great for longer range
Canon EF135/2L: awesome and versatile lens
Sony/Zeiss 135/1.8: the best of the bunch. THE 135 lens for me. I thought the Canon EF135/2 was great, but the Sony takes it one step further in every department except AF speed.

Contax Sonnar 135/2.8: failed to impress me
Nikkor 135/2.8 nice handling, less than stellar results
Tokina 135/2.8 my first 135 lens, not that great, but it was my first

Jan 23, 2013 at 07:51 AM

gasrocks
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p.3 #17 · Zeiss 135/2 APO available for pre-order at B&H

Sold my ZE 100/2 when I got my Leica 100/2.8 macro APO. And after having it for years, I finally sold my EF 135/2 as well. Guess it wasn't that special to me.

Jan 23, 2013 at 03:32 PM

theSuede
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p.3 #18 · Zeiss 135/2 APO available for pre-order at B&H

Mescalamba wrote:
If Im correct CA is sorta tied together both in focus areas and out of focus. At least when in focus area is perfectly clean of CA, usually out of focus has quite low CA too.

My definition of APO would be probably 35-70mm for C/Y.

Im using simple logic that if you want to have super high resolution/contrast then you need to have those rays ending in same place not only in plane of focus but outside aswell.

I will just guess here, but I think with 135/2 most people expect bokeh somewhere around 135/1.8 or 135/2.8 STF. Cause with bad bokeh, Zeiss dont need to even make it.. for those two people which would buy it.

Since light propagates mostly in straight paths as long as the medium in the path does not change (as long as we don't go into deep physics), of course CA in- and out-of focus is tied together...

-the DEFINITION of CA and APO however does not in any way take anything outside the plane of best focus into account. Bokeh fringe LoCA is not absolutely tied to in-focus LoCA, as exit pupil distance can vary with wavelength. As owners of lenses like the Leica APO 100/2.8 will know.

To minimize OOF CA you have to make sure that both the part of the lens that's in front of the physical aperture AND the part of the lens behind the physical aperture are APO corrected as individuals. A lens that inverts a front error in the rear section to get "APO" correction will have bokeh fringes even if the in-focus LoCA is close to perfectly corrected.

Jan 23, 2013 at 04:44 PM

Mescalamba
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p.3 #19 · Zeiss 135/2 APO available for pre-order at B&H

theSuede wrote:
Mescalamba wrote:
If Im correct CA is sorta tied together both in focus areas and out of focus. At least when in focus area is perfectly clean of CA, usually out of focus has quite low CA too.

My definition of APO would be probably 35-70mm for C/Y.

Im using simple logic that if you want to have super high resolution/contrast then you need to have those rays ending in same place not only in plane of focus but outside aswell.

I will just guess here, but I think with 135/2 most people expect bokeh somewhere around 135/1.8 or 135/2.8 STF. Cause with bad bokeh, Zeiss dont need to even make it.. for those two people which would buy it.

Since light propagates mostly in straight paths as long as the medium in the path does not change (as long as we don't go into deep physics), of course CA in- and out-of focus is tied together...

Jan 23, 2013 at 05:35 PM

philip_pj
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p.3 #20 · Zeiss 135/2 APO available for pre-order at B&H

Looking through kosmoskatten's list above and thinking of 100mm lenses these same makers produce(d), the manufacturers kind of killed off the high end 135mm FL themselves as virtually all of them make(made) a superior 100mm, even in the case of Contax, two of them.

Canon appears to be the exception, as the 135/2 is the last one many part with. I bet a lot of folks do not even know Leica made a 135mm R lens. The best 135mm lens Leica made was embedded in a couple of big zoom lenses, probably.

So Zeiss have an historic opportunity here to put that matter to rest..for non-Sony ZA users anyway who are already benefiting from CZ. They don't even have a 100mm in the range.

Jan 23, 2013 at 07:36 PM

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