RX1 bokeh vs other cams/lens at F/2.0

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philip_pj
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p.4 #1 · RX1 bokeh vs other cams/lens at F/2.0

'Bokeh seems very nice to me.' +1. And more aesthetic as well, no contest really.
Helena, I see nothing in your RX1 work be at all remorseful about. Quite the contrary.

Jan 20, 2013 at 03:26 AM

HelenaN
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p.4 #2 · RX1 bokeh vs other cams/lens at F/2.0

philip_pj wrote:
'Bokeh seems very nice to me.' +1. And more aesthetic as well, no contest really.
Helena, I see nothing in your RX1 work be at all remorseful about. Quite the contrary.

Thank you Philip! I meant that I had some remorse about selling ZE 35/1.4 (as with other good lenses, but it usually passes) - no remorse at all about buying the RX1.

Jan 20, 2013 at 09:00 AM

philip_pj
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p.4 #3 · RX1 bokeh vs other cams/lens at F/2.0

good good, many of us really enjoy your work.

On topic, here is a look at the bokeh of the little marvel (RX1) and that from the Nikon 35/1.4G. I don't know Nikon stuff these days, maybe this is a cheaper lens.

http://neilvn.com/tangents/bokeh-sony-rx1-vs-nikon-35mmm-f1-4g/

Jan 21, 2013 at 09:19 PM

Mescalamba
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p.4 #4 · RX1 bokeh vs other cams/lens at F/2.0

philip_pj wrote:
good good, many of us really enjoy your work.

On topic, here is a look at the bokeh of the little marvel (RX1) and that from the Nikon 35/1.4G. I don't know Nikon stuff these days, maybe this is a cheaper lens.

http://neilvn.com/tangents/bokeh-sony-rx1-vs-nikon-35mmm-f1-4g/

Good joke heh. 2000 USD for Nikkor 35mm f1.4G here (1600 USD in US).

Lack of good color transfer is quite obvious in Nikon case. Especially in red part of spectrum.

Jan 21, 2013 at 10:54 PM

philip_pj
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p.4 #5 · RX1 bokeh vs other cams/lens at F/2.0

That really springs out even on casual viewing - the colour deficit, it looks seriously lifeless.

2000 USD for Nikkor 35mm f1.4G here (1600 USD in US). Oh.

Jan 21, 2013 at 11:59 PM

carstenw
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p.4 #6 · RX1 bokeh vs other cams/lens at F/2.0

I don't see a big difference in the colours. In fact, they are surprisingly similar. Could you point to an area where you see a big difference?

Jan 22, 2013 at 09:53 AM

Makten
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p.4 #7 · RX1 bokeh vs other cams/lens at F/2.0

What surprises me is that the Nikkor gives what looks like at least one f-stop larger blur discs.

Jan 22, 2013 at 09:59 AM

carstenw
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p.4 #8 · RX1 bokeh vs other cams/lens at F/2.0

Yes, I noticed that in some of the shots. I didn't check all of them to see if it was consistent. I wonder if he forgot to stop down sometimes?

Jan 22, 2013 at 10:06 AM

h00ligan
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p.4 #9 · RX1 bokeh vs other cams/lens at F/2.0

I can posta comparison with 35L @2 if it is desired

Jan 22, 2013 at 11:52 AM

asabet
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p.4 #10 · RX1 bokeh vs other cams/lens at F/2.0

carstenw wrote:
Yes, I noticed that in some of the shots. I didn't check all of them to see if it was consistent. I wonder if he forgot to stop down sometimes?

No, he commented on it:

"Flo … I noticed it as well. I was in Manhattan on Saturday, and photographed some architecture in the city with both cameras, and saw that. At first I thought I had made some mistake.

But the same thing was noticeable with the photo session with Aleona on Sunday.

And as I commented in the article:
'For some reason which I can’t explain – while the Sony RX1 and Zeiss lens showed very smooth and pleasant bokeh, it somehow looked like the depth-of-field was slightly more than with the Nikon 35mm f/1.4 used at f/2 '

So it is there, but I don’t have an explanation for it.

Neil vN"

I think there are just some lenses which do this (render less OOF looking backgrounds for a given setting), and the Sony Zeiss appears to be one of them.

The Zeiss clearly rendered smoother bokeh in that comparison, but I preferred the Nikon bokeh in each case. Smoother isn't always better to me.

Jan 22, 2013 at 12:21 PM

carstenw
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p.4 #11 · RX1 bokeh vs other cams/lens at F/2.0

Yes, these shots don't really show off the Sony/Zeiss very well. The colours are very close, the boke is a toss-up. It ought to be possible to do better than that.

Jan 22, 2013 at 01:33 PM

Mescalamba
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p.4 #12 · RX1 bokeh vs other cams/lens at F/2.0

carstenw wrote:
I don't see a big difference in the colours. In fact, they are surprisingly similar. Could you point to an area where you see a big difference?

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Even tho WB probably isnt same, its still bit visible. Zeiss blue on left, Nikon attempt on "bluey-green".

Zeiss version has quite natural skin tone, Nikon is pinkysh/yellowy.

I guess whole WB is bit towards magenta in case of Zeiss and bit towards green on Nikon (considering that black on her on both cases isnt exactly black).

Tones on her sweater are deeper and more saturated.

Some of this is result of lens, cause if you have WB towards warmer and green and still pinky skin, it wont look better if you turn it cooler and magenta. Rather opposite.

Considering its still Zeiss, probably some parts as black not being black are most likely not possible to fix either. Tho I care bit less about black.

I saw something similar when comparing 85mm from Samyang and Nikon. Blue and red part of spectrum is quite weak in case of Nikon (more visible in red part tho). Samyang is near perfect in every part of spectrum. Which ofc causes being bit boringly neutral. I guess its same here. Tho I wonder why, cause old Nikkors (AiS etc.) produce actually very nice colors. New look or cheaper coatings/glass?

Jan 22, 2013 at 05:29 PM

aleksanderpolo
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p.4 #13 · RX1 bokeh vs other cams/lens at F/2.0

hot linking is not cool...

Jan 22, 2013 at 05:32 PM

Mescalamba
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p.4 #14 · RX1 bokeh vs other cams/lens at F/2.0

Seems Zeissy enough for me. My PP on review RAW sample from somewhere..

(its on f2, which I think is quite impressive performance.. EXIF is there still)

Jan 22, 2013 at 05:35 PM

zhangyue
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p.4 #15 · RX1 bokeh vs other cams/lens at F/2.0

After see the comparison. I agree there are more similarity than difference. But I don't agree RX did anything poorer, or change my view about it.

Color, I slightly prefer RX, for it has more saturation and slightly orange hint. Nikon has yellow/warmer hint, which I find latest G always have. I don't like that personally. But here the censors are also different, so I don't think we can draw any conclusion on color.

Bokeh, I also slightly prefer RX. I don't feel this comparison change my view about this little camera on Bokeh: beautiful. Here is the reason, For WA lens, I am not seeking blur, or more DOF in Bokeh, but mainly how the bokeh can keep relative shape of background without jittery and harsh representation. Here, the difference is again small but RX1 did better. Usually, fast glass will perform very good once stop down 1 stop on this department, but RX1 seems still smoother which really surprise me. For Bokeh highlight, RX has cat eye, I believe that is come from smaller physical size, mechanic vignette. But Nikon didn't do better, actually, worse to my eye, wired highlight shape close to corner suggesting its poor coma performance. My 35cron R has the same problem. I feel it is ugly.

As for blur, I find fast glass always has more blur at the same aperture compare to f2 lens. from personal experience: 35lux R vs 35cron R. Zeiss 35f2 vs 35f1.4, Zeiss P50 vs MP50, Leica 50lux MASPH vs 50cron rigid. So, I am not surprised to see that, though I don't really know the reason for this.

Jan 22, 2013 at 06:08 PM

sebboh
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p.4 #16 · RX1 bokeh vs other cams/lens at F/2.0

zhangyue wrote:
As for blur, I find fast glass always has more blur at the same aperture compare to f2 lens. from personal experience: 35lux R vs 35cron R. Zeiss 35f2 vs 35f1.4, Zeiss P50 vs MP50, Leica 50lux MASPH vs 50cron rigid. So, I am not surprised to see that, though I don't really know the reason for this.

i've always noticed this as well. i suspect physical vignetting may play a role.

Jan 22, 2013 at 07:01 PM

philip_pj
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p.4 #17 · RX1 bokeh vs other cams/lens at F/2.0

thanks zhangyue, very insightful.

I am of the opinion that colour cannot be taught, as we see several comments re this comparison that there is little difference. I see a huge difference in all these images (and crops), and would reject the Nikon out of hand for its flat lifeless rendering and insipid neutrals.

I see similar treatment in later ZE lenses, like the 25/2. Exposure differences have not helped in the above set, admittedly.

Jan 22, 2013 at 09:18 PM

carstenw
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p.4 #18 · RX1 bokeh vs other cams/lens at F/2.0

Mescalamba wrote:
carstenw wrote:
I don't see a big difference in the colours. In fact, they are surprisingly similar. Could you point to an area where you see a big difference?

Even tho WB probably isnt same, its still bit visible. Zeiss blue on left, Nikon attempt on "bluey-green".

Zeiss version has quite natural skin tone, Nikon is pinkysh/yellowy.

I guess whole WB is bit towards magenta in case of Zeiss and bit towards green on Nikon (considering that black on her on both cases isnt exactly black).

Tones on her sweater are deeper and more saturated.

The differences on this shot may be larger than on most of the shots, yet they are still quite small. I would say that the largest difference is a lower contrast/saturation in the Nikon shot, possibly caused by larger dynamic range, and the slight colour differences may be largely counteracted by a slightly different white balance. Overall, there is a difference, but it is so small that it really is of no consequence at all, and may be equalised with only slight PP. In fact, maybe they were even caused by slight differences in PP, in the raw developer or by the person.

Jan 22, 2013 at 10:25 PM

carstenw
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p.4 #19 · RX1 bokeh vs other cams/lens at F/2.0

In fact, flipping back and forth between the two, I find myself preferring the skin colour (not the shading though) of the Nikon shot. I find the colour slightly more relaxed and believable, whereas the Sony colour is a little cooler/greener and more tense-looking somehow. The shading looks better in the Sony colour, but this may be caused by lower contrast due to the Nikkor lens design, or higher dynamic range or different tone curves of the D4 sensor, or any number of other small factors.

In general I prefer Zeiss lenses and rendering over Nikkors, but in this series, I just don't see anything worth getting excited about.

Jan 22, 2013 at 10:32 PM

zhangyue
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p.4 #20 · RX1 bokeh vs other cams/lens at F/2.0

carstenw wrote:
Mescalamba wrote:
carstenw wrote:
I don't see a big difference in the colours. In fact, they are surprisingly similar. Could you point to an area where you see a big difference?

Even tho WB probably isnt same, its still bit visible. Zeiss blue on left, Nikon attempt on "bluey-green".

Zeiss version has quite natural skin tone, Nikon is pinkysh/yellowy.

I guess whole WB is bit towards magenta in case of Zeiss and bit towards green on Nikon (considering that black on her on both cases isnt exactly black).

Tones on her sweater are deeper and more saturated.

The differences on this shot may be larger than on most of the shots, yet they are still quite small. I would say that the largest difference is a lower contrast/saturation in the Nikon shot, possibly caused by larger dynamic range, and the slight colour differences may be largely counteracted by a slightly different white balance. Overall, there is a difference, but it is so small that it really is of no consequence at all, and may be equalised with only slight PP. In fact, maybe they were even caused by slight differences in PP, in the raw developer or by the person.

Could be WB, PP or profile. I doubt it is from DR. I believe 24M RX1 might be better than 16M D4 in this department.

Jan 22, 2013 at 11:04 PM

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