Wedding Photographer? Ya' okay! WTF?

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Wedding Photographer? Ya' okay! WTF?

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p.3 #1 · Wedding Photographer? Ya' okay! WTF?

cwebster wrote:
Worry less about what other people are doing, and more about what you are doing. You will have much better results and be happier.
<Chas>

This.

Life ain't fair, and it was never made to be that way. You have to know when to let things go and move on. Spending too much time on something like this is letting it control you.

And the wedding forum here is good, the only thing I have against it is that people start a thread by posting way too many images.

Jan 07, 2013 at 11:26 PM

friscoron
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p.3 #2 · Wedding Photographer? Ya' okay! WTF?

honorerdieu wrote:
Just reading through this thread... having expensive equipment or possessing the technical knowledge does not make one a competent photographer. It takes creative vision and style to be competitive in the photography industry.

It helps to have that. But savvy marketing is king.

Jan 07, 2013 at 11:31 PM

snegron
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p.3 #3 · Wedding Photographer? Ya' okay! WTF?

qburke:

"Some of you guys sound like old farts - talking about the good 'ole days, and how kids these days don't listen or give a darn."

My point is further proven by your childish remarks.

Jan 07, 2013 at 11:44 PM

qburke
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p.3 #4 · Wedding Photographer? Ya' okay! WTF?

Jan 07, 2013 at 11:50 PM

ChiShutter
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p.3 #5 · Wedding Photographer? Ya' okay! WTF?

snegron wrote:
Wedding photography business is hurting due to two basic factors:

1. Current generation of clients have little or no appreciation for art. Most couples have grown up in a world where cheap, unimaginative Facebook-type pictures are the norm. They are incapable of appreciating a good image.

2. For the few who do appreciate art, the economy has limited their budget. When it comes down to choosing between catering or photography, they prefer to forgo photography in favor of a fancier menu. After all, most guests will have their expensive smartphones and ipads at the wedding, so the couple will get to see instant results on whatever social media they waste their time on.

Before you start hurling insults toward me let me make a quick disclaimer. Am I bitter? Yes. Do I have any experience in the wedding photography business? Yes. I have been shooting weddings since the mid 1980's; back when medium format film was king. I transitioned to digital when the fad first started. I have seen first hand how the wedding photography business has gone down hill.
I vehemently disagree with your take, especially #1. Ten or fifteen years ago, hiring a wedding photographer was largely about documenting the day. Over the last several years, and I'll submit that due to both the digital camera era AND the internet, it has become FAR MORE about having something that not only documents the day, but does so in a memorable, unique, and artistic way. I think people care about the artistry of it far more now than they ever did before.

Jan 08, 2013 at 01:30 AM

dhp_sf
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p.3 #6 · Wedding Photographer? Ya' okay! WTF?

^^^ Totally agree. I wouldn't be interested in wedding photography at all if my eyes weren't more recently opened to the creativity and artistry potential of the genre.

Jan 08, 2013 at 01:52 AM

Josh Evilsizor
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p.3 #7 · Wedding Photographer? Ya' okay! WTF?

how did I know you were a "strobist" before you even mentioned going to a "strobist shoot"... Guys with attitudes like yours was the reason I went from organizing the Ohio strobist meets to no longer participating in the group...

Jan 08, 2013 at 03:10 AM

joelconner
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p.3 #8 · Wedding Photographer? Ya' okay! WTF?

snegron wrote:this generation has no clue. These same type of images are now tossed to the side in favor of posed, unimaginative shots I took as requested by the bride or groom.

I could not disagree more. We have found that the people getting married these days are MORE in tune with artistry, creativity, and excellence than ever before. Some of the comments that these girls to me are making about the various photographers and comparing them surprises me. There is much more of a range and variety these days, and people have the opportunity to see so much that is different and compare them.

It is still about capturing those great moments. But, there is a lot more to it...as there always was before, actually. There is just so much out there that it takes a heck of a lot more work to stand out from the crowd. We are pushing, pushing, pushing ourselves every time we shoot and working on how we communicate our message to the people who see us. We are fully booked in advance year to year in a saturated market...and it is that way because of how hard we work.

Yes, the clients have changed...but not always in the way you think.

Edited on Jan 08, 2013 at 11:27 PM · View previous versions

Jan 08, 2013 at 06:45 PM

sozypozy
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p.3 #9 · Wedding Photographer? Ya' okay! WTF?

The people are naive and they'll believe anything. It is sad to see how actual professionals don't get work because newbies have fancier gadgets

Edited on Jan 09, 2013 at 01:22 AM · View previous versions

Jan 08, 2013 at 08:20 PM

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p.3 #10 · Wedding Photographer? Ya' okay! WTF?

Well if you have ever planned a wedding it can be very time consuming and stressful. So often times shortcuts are taken and good judgement is not always used/practiced. It is just the free market in action.

Jan 09, 2013 at 01:01 AM

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p.3 #11 · Wedding Photographer? Ya' okay! WTF?

CW100 wrote:
alohadave wrote:
forreal wrote:
Russ, you basically summed up my issues with "photographers" since digital became so available. You have every Tom, Dick and Harry coming out of the wood works accepting the title as a "professional photographer" by accepting payment for jobs when they don't know squat about photography. They have some OK to nice equipment, can set it to "P" or auto and fire away. Then happily stand there with their hand out expecting compensation for their "professionalism". It urks me to no end. You also see it on any one of the photog forums out there, this one included. Someone posts their latest paid gig, gets a little hard C&C from the community, explains client was happy with them.. yahda, yahda, yahda.

Do the public an honest service folks, learn to walk before you run.

Keeping it real.

Bleh!

You seem to think that there weren't hacks before digital made it easier to become a photographer. There were plenty of bad to middling photographers that people used because there were far fewer choices.

I say that the explosion of people offering their services is a fabulously good thing for the industry. If people are happy paying less and getting what they want, then the market has expanded, and ultimately provided more work for photographers in general. You'll see in a few years that the industry is going to transform itself into something that you can barely recognize. It's going to hurt some people, but it'll help a lot more.

Photography has never been about selling f/stops or shutter speeds. It's about marketing and salesmanship, the technical details don't matter to anyone but photographers. Customers care about pictures that capture them in a good likeness, or capturing an emotion

you see this in all the time in photography business threads and forums. Photographers who complain about other "photographers" and the business they are getting. I wonder if it's like that on carpenter forums. Or those plumbers complaining about amateur plumbers stealing their business

In fact it is. My son works in the construction field and they always bitch about the non union illegal workers working for pennies, doing shoddy work and taking away business. Plumbers, framers, cement, drywall.......even electricians in some cases and that is scary.

Jan 09, 2013 at 02:17 PM

ESC in KC
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p.3 #12 · Wedding Photographer? Ya' okay! WTF?

I read through a lot of this and then wondered why I did so.

My only question is this, "why in the world would you ever pay that first stovepipe repairman?" I would have told him to hit the streets and stuff his invoice in his own stove.

Jan 09, 2013 at 02:39 PM

forreal
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p.3 #13 · Wedding Photographer? Ya' okay! WTF?

ESC in KC wrote:
I read through a lot of this and then wondered why I did so.

My only question is this, "why in the world would you ever pay that first stovepipe repairman?" I would have told him to hit the streets and stuff his invoice in his own stove.

Because they get you on the phone to commit prior to arrival. A service call is a service call. If they show up, you owe them, period. Sure, I could have been difficult, but it would have only caused a lot more trouble for me in the end, and we all know they are banking on that. It's a pretty sad way of doing business, but they do it and get away with it.

Jan 09, 2013 at 02:46 PM

CW100
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p.3 #14 · Wedding Photographer? Ya' okay! WTF?

sozypozy wrote:
It is sad to see how actual professionals don't get work because newbies have fancier gadgets ]

sad indeed.
Similar to the situation that dentists and engineers now face with the influx of newbies and their fancy gear which enables them to steal clients left and right.
a crying shame I tell ya'

Jan 09, 2013 at 03:28 PM

canerino
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p.3 #15 · Wedding Photographer? Ya' okay! WTF?

great post by my buddy sam on the wedding forum about this very topic: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1180294

Jan 09, 2013 at 05:19 PM

M Lucca
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p.3 #16 · Wedding Photographer? Ya' okay! WTF?

^ The Other Guy didn't know presets. Today's noobs are all about presets and filters. High Key B&W no problem. Cine-effect? No problem. Bokeh everything, vignette to the max and apply yellowy vintage look.... no problem.
VSCO style with grain? No problem.

I like your style Chuck. It got substance and it is authentic. There are just too many standing by the wall photos holding hand staring at the camera poses these days. Or the classic shoot into the sun by the grass look. there's always the classic jumping shot. Nothing new. So fake. But as long as they are peddled on the various wedding sites/mags clueless brides will want them.

There will always be newbies entering into the photography business. The price to enter is so low. Just as many will enter, there will be just as many that will close shop after a year or two. It's ok. Stop focusing on competition and focus on what the customer wants instead.

Jan 09, 2013 at 06:17 PM

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p.3 #17 · Wedding Photographer? Ya' okay! WTF?

CW100 wrote:
sad indeed.
Similar to the situation that dentists and engineers now face with the influx of newbies and their fancy gear which enables them to steal clients left and right.
a crying shame I tell ya'

We live in a consumer society and people are often judged based on appearances, not results. Tools have evolved from functional and utilitarian to being 'image enhancers', whether it's a flashy new car, a diamond ring, or the latest DSLR with all the bells and whistles.

Jan 09, 2013 at 06:58 PM

scottam10
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p.3 #18 · Wedding Photographer? Ya' okay! WTF?

Chris Tylko wrote:
It's not worth getting upset about it. But I know exactly how you feel; I put a lot of effort into an image before I show it but have no interest in wedding photography and only occasionally do people work. The way I see it, "Weddings" are a wide market with quality ranging from bargain basement to ultra high professional with price points to match. Theoretically, ya get what ya pay for.

Case in point, I attended our niece's small back yard, "low-cost" wedding this summer. They hired a lady photog who fits the OP's description to a "T". She was equipped with a Rebel, a 50mm 1.8 and a 35mm f 2.0; she paid little attention to lighting (i.e. scattered cloudy day with glaring early afternoon sun)...and had no flash or reflectors. She told me she does minimal post work and drops a CD with about 100-200 shots for about $600. As you can see below, she also dressed for the occasion.

And you know what? The newlyweds were perfectly happy with what they got.

(By the way, I shot candids from behind the scenes with my 70-200 and gave my niece all of my shots for free in case the official photog's work turned out to be a disaster).

As you say, you get what you pay for - the no-shoes bit is funny, but $600 is not exactly stealing work from the big boys.

A Rebel with a 50mm and 35mm is quite capable of producing good results in the right hands, just as others can spend thousands on gear and still take crappy shots - you're paying for artistic vision

It disappoints me that she does minimal post-processing, I think $600 should pay for some time editing to make the shots look their best.

Did you see her images - were they cringe-worthy?

Jan 10, 2013 at 03:33 AM

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p.3 #19 · Wedding Photographer? Ya' okay! WTF?

It comes down to this guys. One thing that can’t be disputed is that for the right reasons or the wrong, one will not have to search long and hard to find people who just feel that many photographers charge an arm and a leg for their work. They’ll argue that $100, $200, $300 an hour or more is just insane. And while in every business, you will see some price competition, in an industry where many consumers feel this way about price, it’s not going to be hard for someone to step in and undercut.

Part of the bitterness though I think stems from this. It’s not true what is often insinuated where if the price is low, the pictures are crap and the client was ripped off. Fact is, this is a business with a learning curve that’s inviting to new photographers. It’s a learning curve that allows anyone who really wants to to produce at least solid pictures that will hold up.

That being said, it is a fact that some photographers can do magic. It’s a kind of magic you can’t get even if you aquire the greatest education that can be found in photography because it’s a magic you can’t teach. It’s also a magic that some high priced photographers aren’t guaranteed to have. It’s also a magic that if you have, you need not worry, there are clients who will pay for it. The market will see to that, it always does.

The only thing really changing is the ease of getting into photography. This is a good thing on many fronts. It provides checks and balances on the status quo of photography as it were. It allows people who would otherwise have little more than a few Kodak shots get someone in there to do the work for them that they otherwise could not afford. And yes, it offers a challenge to the price. If the going rates are too high, they will certainly drop and there’s no changing that. The market will decide.

Being consumed or upset with the fact that it’s a changing market will do little more than that, get one consumed and upset. The best thing to do is to ride the market shaping it here and there as you get opportunities.

Jan 10, 2013 at 08:34 AM

scottam10
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p.3 #20 · Wedding Photographer? Ya' okay! WTF?

Well said Enigmatl

The only part I would argue with is the $300/hour bit. It may seem like $300/hour to the customer based on the time spent shooting, but the actual rate is much lower after you allow for the many hours spent post-processing, designing albums and also the time required to run the business and court/win the client's custom in the first place.

This is why the cheap craigslist shooters mostly survive by working a day job for real income, and shooting the odd wedding at the weekend.

Jan 10, 2013 at 08:49 AM

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