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Archive 2012 · Need fast, wide angle recommendation

Aaron D
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p.2 #1 · Need fast, wide angle recommendation

Steve Spencer wrote:
For one thing, keep in mind any lenses that is adpated to Canon will mean you are using manual focus. Manual focus, IMO, is much better on a lens designed for manual focus than on one designed for autofocus.

I concur. I remember when I received my Yashinon 28/2.8 DX. The feel and the action of the focusing mechanism made me grin like a child on Christmas morning. So smooth and buttery. It is a joy to focus. I have a love / hate relationship with that lens. I find it quite hard to focus at times and indeed will be getting an AF confirm adapter for it in the near future. My other alt lenses, which aren't as old feel almost as good. My 18-55 kit and 55-250IS just don't compare to these at all when manual focusing.

Steve Spencer wrote:
Also keep in mind that this Nikon lens does not have an aperture ring, so you will need an adapter that allows control of the aperture. I think you will find that these are not cheap. The Nikon lens is a good lens and I think a great deal on a NIkon camera, but, IMO, not the best choice for a Canon camera.

This did not even occur to me. I must quite tired when I thought of this as an alternative. Thanks for pointing this out.

Steve Spencer wrote:
If f/2 is acceptable, then I would pick the Olympus OM 28 f/2, or the 35 f/2, or the Pentax K mount (first K Mount, M series or A series) 28 f/2, or 35 f/2, or the Minolta 35 f/1.8 that I mentioned earlier. The Kiron/Vivitar is obviously your best low cost option and is also a good lens. I would go with any of these over the Nikon and the high priced adapter it would require.

Again, thank you. I will be keeping my eyes open for one of these. I know it would be more than I'd like to spend, and would probably be into the price territory of a modern, fast, AF lens...but I'm surprised to not see any offerings in this focal range and speed in the form of Takumars.

Do any exist that you, or anybody else, are aware of?

Steve Spencer wrote:
The newer lens with have two advantages: better coatings to resist flare and a more circular aperture which makes more pleasant out of focus highlights when the lens is stopped down. The older lenses, however, are more rugged made for manual focus, and have unique looks. So there is lots of choice. My advice and take some time and do a bit more investigation.

I don't fully agree on all modern lenses having more circular apertures. Take the Pentacon 135/2.8 preset, the Meyer-Optik G�rlitz Orestor 135/2.8, or the Wollensak Raptar 51/1.5 in Leica M (Drool! Ebay - http://tinyurl.com/b87bd89) lenses with 15 blades for example. However I do agree that the older alt lenses do have certain quality's and personalities about them that differs from each and every lens. Which is what makes them so desirable to us.

You have given me a lot of valuable info as far as some "budget friendly" alt lenses in respect to my topic. Thank you very much. Still curious about a Tak or Super Tak though in this focal range that's f/2 or faster.

RustyBug wrote:
Shoot them at the shutter speed (1 stop faster) you need (slightly underexposed) ... then process from the RAW in PP. You're only talking about a maximum of one stop gain using a 2.0 lens. But, at 2.0 WA you'll likely be losing some resolution/contrast that may not be a significant gain over what you can do from a good 2.8 and good PP from the RAW ... at least worth exploring. Otherwise ... plan on some $$$ for a 2.0 WA wider than 28mm.

Thanks Rusty. I forgot that every RAW shot actually contains eight EV�s worth of exposure latitude. Will give it a go next time. Need an AF adapter first though, as the 28/2.8 can be a PITA to MF, even with a focusing screen.

Jman13 wrote:
The samyang is cheap for what it is, but it's not 'cheap' in this context, when the OP's budget is $100.

Yes, $750 is cheap for a 24/1.4, but its not cheap in absolute terms.

Unfortunately, Jman is correct. Price is a subjective subject.But thank you for the suggestion.

Dec 30, 2012 at 04:22 PM

Aaron D
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p.2 #2 · Need fast, wide angle recommendation

carstenw wrote:
Yep. If someone finds an answer to the OP, then I would also like to buy a 400/4 or similar with great IQ for less than 300 Euro

Hahaha! Grab one for me as well!

Dec 30, 2012 at 04:23 PM

wfrank
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p.2 #3 · Need fast, wide angle recommendation

A used Samyang 14/2.8 could be worth looking into? It may even be close to budget. That lens is an unlikely combination of good properties. Quite large though. But personally I couldnt go much higher than 14mm for a "true" WA on a cropped camera.

Dec 30, 2012 at 06:01 PM

helimat
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p.2 #4 · Need fast, wide angle recommendation

Steve Spencer wrote:
Just because the Nikon is newer does not mean that it is better optical quality. For one thing, keep in mind any lenses that is adpated to Canon will mean you are using manual focus. Manual focus, IMO, is much better on a lens designed for manual focus than on one designed for autofocus. Also keep in mind that this Nikon lens does not have an aperture ring, so you will need an adapter that allows control of the aperture. I think you will find that these are not cheap. The Nikon lens is a good lens and I...Show more →

The lens I recommended is the 28/2 AI, which is a manual focus lens complete with aperture ring.

For example: eBay auction (Not affiliated)

Dec 30, 2012 at 07:36 PM

Aaron D
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p.2 #5 · Need fast, wide angle recommendation

wfrank wrote:
A used Samyang 14/2.8 could be worth looking into? It may even be close to budget. That lens is an unlikely combination of good properties. Quite large though. But personally I couldnt go much higher than 14mm for a "true" WA on a cropped camera.

Thanks Frank. Really looking for f/2 or faster, but will check it out.

helimat wrote:
The lens I recommended is the 28/2 AI, which is a manual focus lens complete with aperture ring.

For example: eBay auction (Not affiliated)

Thanks for giving me a Nikon example. There's so many different Nikons and Nikkors, sometimes I don't know where to start looking.

Dec 31, 2012 at 03:50 AM

Hawkan
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p.2 #6 · Need fast, wide angle recommendation

I like the Vivitar Kiron (serial number 28*) 28mm f/2, but I admit it's not anywhere razor sharp wide open and has quite a dreamy quality to it.

Dec 31, 2012 at 05:08 AM

justruss
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p.2 #7 · Need fast, wide angle recommendation

Answer: Not going to happen.

You need to get at least down to 24mm on a crop camera to even be under 40mm equivalent-- which is barely wide angle at all. I don't think you're into proper wide angle until 20mm (32mm equiv) on a cropper.

An OM 24mm f/2.8 (too slow by your admission), multicoated, mint glass, is going to run you $150 or better unless you're lucky. Great lens.

F/2 goes up by multiples of that.

Faster?

The best thing I can recommend is the kinda awkward, seemingly very erratic model to model sharpness/QA, funky AF, big, Sigma 20 f/1.8. There were copies floating around about 8 years ago that were quite sharp, at least in the middle. But still a couple hundred bucks if I remember correctly.

A 28mm lens is ~45mm equiv on FF... basically not wide at all. A 35mm lens is ~56mm... a little longer than normal.

Dec 31, 2012 at 06:00 AM

RustyBug
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p.2 #8 · Need fast, wide angle recommendation

+1 @ justruss ... hence my rec raw PP with your f2.8

I've got the Oly 18/3.5 Nikon 20/2.8 AIS, Oly 21/3.5, Oly 24/2.8, C/Y 28/2.8, Nikon 28/2.8 AIS and Oly28/3.5. You'll notice that there is nothing faster than 2.8 and only the Oly 28/3.5 was in the sub-$100 range followed in price by the Oly 24/2.8, Nikon 28/2.8 AIS, C/Y 28/2.8, Nikon 20/2.8 AIS, Oly 21/3.5, Oly 18/3.5.

The options for WA/UWA f/2 are simply far and few between and not cheap ... optics are always a series of compromises. IMO, there is nowhere that this is more apparent that when you start going into the WA/UWA realm, the wider you go, the tougher it gets.

BTW ... Tamron makes a decent little 17-35/2.8-4.0. I realize that this is still an f/2.8 @ 17mm ... but if shutter speed for motion is part of your issue, shooting @ 17mm will allow you to shoot at your current shutter speeds with your current 28/2.8 FL and incur less motion blur (for same shooting distance). Also, 17mm on your crop will yield an effective 25.5mm (FF equivalent). It does go for a bit more than your proposed $100 and corners are softer wide open, but it is my "backup" glass to my wide primes for when I want AF or zoom convenience. 17/2.8 is about the fastest UWA you'll find for around $200 (used)

Again, +1 @ justruss regarding the Sigma ... I have rented it for special occasions when I really needed the faster glass. Rental (Sigma or others) might be an option to look in to for when it is a MUST have.

Dec 31, 2012 at 08:36 AM

ZoneV
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p.2 #9 · Need fast, wide angle recommendation

Hawkan wrote:
I like the Vivitar Kiron (serial number 28*) 28mm f/2, but I admit it's not anywhere razor sharp wide open and has quite a dreamy quality to it.

I have such a lens too, and I have the same impression. Full open it was very soft and not very sharp.
I own a Minolta RokkorMinolta Rokkor 35mm f/1.8 (German page, pictures mae with that lens at the bottom of the page). I don�t love it much.

Probably a Vivitar 28mm f/1.9 or 35mm f/1.9 could be an option?
The 28mm has a very special bokeh sometimes, because of this it is probably to expensive. I have not tested my 35mm copy up to now, probably it has this Bokeh too.

Dec 31, 2012 at 12:38 PM

Aaron D
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p.2 #10 · Need fast, wide angle recommendation

justruss wrote:
Answer: Not going to happen.

You need to get at least down to 24mm on a crop camera to even be under 40mm equivalent-- which is barely wide angle at all. I don't think you're into proper wide angle until 20mm (32mm equiv) on a cropper.

Faster?

The best thing I can recommend is the kinda awkward, seemingly very erratic model to model sharpness/QA, funky AF, big, Sigma 20 f/1.8. There were copies floating around about 8 years ago that were quite sharp, at least in the middle. But still a couple hundred bucks if I remember correctly.

Thanks Russ. I'm beginning to see that. Guess I was hoping to get lucky and find an older WA faster than 2.8 that was one of those lenses that wasn't excellent, but not horrible either. Somewhere near the cheap end of middle-of-the-road if you get what I mean. 24 is exactly where I'd like to be on this. I just threw the 35mm FL in there, as it would probably work for what I want, even if it isn't technically a WA.

Out of curiosity, that Sigma you mention, did it have any special naming designation so I know what to keep my eyes open for / search for should I decide to hunt one down? And thanks for throwing another one on this list. Always appreciated.

RustyBug wrote:
BTW ... Tamron makes a decent little 17-35/2.8-4.0. I realize that this is still an f/2.8 @ 17mm ... but if shutter speed for motion is part of your issue, shooting @ 17mm will allow you to shoot at your current shutter speeds with your current 28/2.8 FL and incur less motion blur (for same shooting distance).

Funny you mention the Tammy 17-35/2.8-4. Was thinking about saving up for the Sigma 17-70/2.8-4 this year. Time to move up from my kit lens. I'll check out the Tammy. Thanks Rusty,

ZoneV wrote:
Probably a Vivitar 28mm f/1.9 or 35mm f/1.9 could be an option?
The 28mm has a very special bokeh sometimes, because of this it is probably to expensive. I have not tested my 35mm copy up to now, probably it has this Bokeh too.

Thanks Zone. I know the older Series 1's were considered fairly good lenses for the most part. Looks like the 35 runs about $225 and the 28 about $100 more. Looks like if I want a lens that's wider than my 50, I'm going to have to open the wallet up a little bit more and get into the $200 range for something that's halfway decent. Wouldn't mind considering a 35, since I already have a 28. Would make a good addition me thinks.

But if I go for one of these $200-or less 1.8/1.9's, after this, I forbid myself from going after anymore alt glass until I get one of those 15-bladed 135's and the matching 135 to my Yashy 28 DX! Guy I bought my 28 from had the matching 135 and he was gonna sell it to me for $25 (same mint condition). I turned him down and I hate myself for it. I blame you alt folks for getting me hooked after I was able to get my 28 for less than a meal for two at a cheap restaurant. I really need to get some AF confirm adapters too. The split prism focusing screen I put in a few months back helps tremendously, but in darker scenario's, the confirmation would be welcomed greatly.

I'll try and get you guys some pics of, and with, my uber cheap Chinon 50/1.9 and Soligor 70-222/3.5 macro in the coming week or two once this holiday stuff settles down and my Spyder 4 comes. This Soligor is a monster and focuses down to 1 inch...no exaggeration.

Thanks again for all the help. I'll try the trick mentioned earlier using my 28 before I consider any of the mentioned here. Should anyone think of any other lenses that are "low budget", feel free to chime in. In the meantime, Happy New Years!

Dec 31, 2012 at 08:39 PM

RustyBug
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p.2 #11 · Need fast, wide angle recommendation

Aaron D wrote:
Funny you mention the Tammy 17-35/2.8-4. Was thinking about saving up for the Sigma 17-70/2.8-4 this year. Time to move up from my kit lens. I'll check out the Tammy. Thanks Rusty,

I had the 17-50/2.8 Tammy on my D70s ... which preceded my switch to FF and the subsequent 17-35. The Sigma 17-50/2.8 was a strong contender as well ... but I didn't mention them before because of your indicated budget. Either 17-50/2.8 (Sigma or Tamron) would be my recommendation.

Dec 31, 2012 at 08:55 PM

Aaron D
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p.2 #12 · Need fast, wide angle recommendation

RustyBug wrote:
I had the 17-50/2.8 Tammy on my D70s ... which preceded my switch to FF and the subsequent 17-35. The Sigma 17-50/2.8 was a strong contender as well ... but I didn't mention them before because of your indicated budget. Either 17-50/2.8 (Sigma or Tamron) would be my recommendation.

I decided on the Sig 17-70/2.8 to replace my kit lens a few months ago. Any reason why you say the 17-50 instead? I know it wouldn't be a big gap, but if I went that route, I'd have one if I went with the Tammy 70-300 VC like I have been planning. Big or small gap, I'm horribly OCD when it comes to things like this and it would drive me crazy knowing I had one. Sure I could go with the new Bigma to cover 50mm on up, but I was hoping for a "better-than-beginner, 2 lens upgrade, for traveling around, at under $1k.

Jan 01, 2013 at 03:20 AM

ZoneV
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p.2 #13 · Need fast, wide angle recommendation

Aaron D wrote:
... I know the older Series 1's were considered fairly good lenses for the most part. Looks like the 35 runs about $225 and the 28 about $100 more...

Oh, here in Germany the Vivitar 35mm/1.9 could be bought on Ebay for 65 and 78 Euros last months, thats roughly USD 100. I think these are not Series 1. But mechanical qulity is good. And at first look IQ looks OK.

Jan 01, 2013 at 06:50 AM

Aaron D
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p.2 #14 · Need fast, wide angle recommendation

When I looked yesterday, I only saw one lens for around $100USD.

The other two listed are around $225USD. Looks like you are correct, I did not notice they were not Series 1. You have one of the 35/1.9 Zone?

Aside from the differences in coatings, bokeh, construction and the uniqueness it may have on the photo, I'm curious as to how this lens compares to the Canon 35/2, in terms of IQ, since the Canon can be bought used for around $225 as well.

Jan 01, 2013 at 01:26 PM

crazeazn
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p.2 #15 · Need fast, wide angle recommendation

Kit lens with flash ?

Jan 02, 2013 at 12:56 AM

pingflood
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p.2 #16 · Need fast, wide angle recommendation

Steve Spencer wrote:
If f/2 is acceptable, then I would pick the Olympus OM 28 f/2, or the 35 f/2

I would caution against the 35/2 if you actually want to use it at f/2. It is pretty "mushy" wide open to say the least.

Jan 02, 2013 at 03:37 AM

Aaron D
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p.2 #17 · Need fast, wide angle recommendation

crazeazn wrote:
Kit lens with flash ?

Not an option for those times when a flash can't be used.

pingflood wrote:
I would caution against the 35/2 if you actually want to use it at f/2. It is pretty "mushy" wide open to say the least.

Thanks for advice!

Jan 02, 2013 at 04:37 AM

RustyBug
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p.2 #18 · Need fast, wide angle recommendation

pingflood wrote:
It is pretty "mushy" wide open to say the least.

Isn't "wide" + "fast" + "wide open" the universal recipe for "mush"

Jan 02, 2013 at 07:39 AM

crazeazn
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p.2 #19 · Need fast, wide angle recommendation

what exactly are you shooting anyway?

Jan 02, 2013 at 10:31 AM

Aaron D
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p.2 #20 · Need fast, wide angle recommendation

RustyBug wrote:
Isn't "wide" + "fast" + "wide open" the universal recipe for "mush"

... with things becoming "mushier" the wider and faster you go.

Budget aside ... either of the Nikon/Canon 24/1.4 lenses stopped down to f/2.0 (Samyang still looks mushy @ f/2, imo) or the Zeiss 25/2 @ f2 (noting usability @ wide open) show how difficult it is to really achieve the combination of WA @ f/2 with excellence.

Cruising through some of the older Photodo scores and MTF's ... the Tamron 24/2.5 offering caught my attention for potential consideration @ the OP's criteria for some bargain legacy WA faster...Show more →

Excellent. Thanks again Rusty! I forgot all about photodo and KEH. Was cruising around KEH yesterday. Also made a list of all the lenses mentioned in this thread.

crazeazn wrote:
what exactly are you shooting anyway?

People indoors, in houses. This would be for shooting my own family (HA!) and friends at get-togethers rather inconspicuously. Take this past Christmas for example of people opening gifts. In which case, a little softness may very well be welcome. But, giving some thought to pet photography as well to make some extra $, as I love shooting pets and can always get great shots. But, they move around quite a bit, so a faster lens could be advantageous. Normally don't want anything too soft here though, as we want to see the fur resolved well.

Another option - if I can live with some vignetting, ther'es a few c-mount cine lenses too. Just came across a Cosmicar 25 f/1.4 in ex condition for $80 and Computar 16 f/1.4 for $15! Might see about jumping on that Computar.

Jan 02, 2013 at 02:01 PM

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