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Archive 2012 · D600 vs 5D Mark II...what's your take?
  
 
dholl
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p.2 #1 · D600 vs 5D Mark II...what's your take?


mco_970 wrote:
I read that it's a bit darker than standard 5D2 screen which makes the D600 a bit easier for MF glass. It's somewhere between the standard 5D2 screen and the EGS (high precision screen for 5D2). The EGS being VERY dark and also very helpful for MF glass. I had EGS installed in my 5D2, so D600 seems brighter...


Hiya mco...can you help me understand how a darker screen can be more beneficial to manual-focussing than a brighter screen?

I remember thinking about the EGS screen for my 5DII a while back, but when I read it made the view darker I decided against it (even tho' at around 30, it's probably worth a try).




Dec 25, 2012 at 09:41 PM
PeaktoPeek
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p.2 #2 · D600 vs 5D Mark II...what's your take?


I had the grid screen on my 5D and I don't see much of a difference in brightness, if there's a difference it's not easily noticeable by me. I do see a difference with the 100% coverage, since I always seemed to get extra stuff in my 5D images that I didn't see through the viewfinder. It's probably more of a landscape thing.


Dec 25, 2012 at 10:12 PM
dholl
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p.2 #3 · D600 vs 5D Mark II...what's your take?


PeaktoPeek wrote:
I had the grid screen on my 5D and I don't see much of a difference in brightness, if there's a difference it's not easily noticeable by me. I do see a difference with the 100% coverage, since I always seemed to get extra stuff in my 5D images that I didn't see through the viewfinder. It's probably more of a landscape thing.


Agreed. I also get annoyed at my view not being the exact composition. I know we can use the LCD monitor instead, and I even use one of those LCD-loupfinder things (which I heartily recommended, by the way)...but there's still no substitute for ye big olde optical finder.

Interesting that there seems to be slightly different consensus regarding how dark the different viewfinders all are.



Dec 25, 2012 at 10:40 PM
akul
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p.2 #4 · D600 vs 5D Mark II...what's your take?


I have no experience either with 5DII or D600. Your post made me think that video is crucial to your 'bread and butter' part of photography. I would definitely test D600 on this area. I won't be surprised Nikon cheated on video. 1080 30P does not mean anything if you don't get the 1080 lines of clean information progressive. Somehow, I have doubts. I shoot D700, and I still don't have DSLR that shoots video, so I don't know first hand, but Nikon is a still camera company. They don't know video. Canon does. ( I shoot Sony EX1r for video work )

My 2 cents.



Dec 25, 2012 at 10:45 PM
dholl
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p.2 #5 · D600 vs 5D Mark II...what's your take?


akul wrote:
I have no experience either with 5DII or D600. Your post made me think that video is crucial to your 'bread and butter' part of photography. I would definitely test D600 on this area. I won't be surprised Nikon cheated on video. 1080 30P does not mean anything if you don't get the 1080 lines of clean information progressive. Somehow, I have doubts. I shoot D700, and I still don't have DSLR that shoots video, so I don't know first hand, but Nikon is a still camera company. They don't know video. Canon does. ( I shoot Sony EX1r for
...Show more

You make a good point. But according to feedback from film forums, the Nikons generally offer a sharper video, more true to its JPG output. The clean downsampling of the 5DIII (and perhaps 6D too) does indeed offer a cleaner output, but softer too. With the Nikons I imagine I could replicate the softer cleaner look by shooting at ISO-1600, use a lens known more for its colour than its sharpness and set NF to high. But the Canon doesn't appear to be able to replicate the sharp output of the Nikons.

EOSHD offered an opinion of the 5DIII's video-output during DPR's review.

My video work relies on full-frame (indeed, it's a 'selling point' of mine). Full-frame video has a certain look, and a certain performance in low-light, that people appreciate. It may well prove to be that I feel the D600's video output doesn't match the 4-year old 5DII's output, but if so it's not a biggie...I would easily be able to swap back with minimum loss.

Looking further down the line, I would consider the NEX VG-900 as a possible main camera (with the D600 as proper back-up...same sensor, I believe).






Dec 25, 2012 at 10:57 PM
akul
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p.2 #6 · D600 vs 5D Mark II...what's your take?


Your post about D600 HDMI not filling the frame sounds extremely odd. That in itself sounds like a bad sign that Nikon does not get it though. Canon in early days with 5Dii, fixed and added video features I recall, with Nikon, I am not so sure they listen to customers like Canon did. I did a little web search and base image quality of D600 seems well received. As long as you don't use HDMI, it may be ok, but seems safer to test it if you could.


Dec 26, 2012 at 05:03 AM
dholl
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p.2 #7 · D600 vs 5D Mark II...what's your take?


akul wrote:
Your post about D600 HDMI not filling the frame sounds extremely odd. That in itself sounds like a bad sign that Nikon does not get it though. Canon in early days with 5Dii, fixed and added video features I recall, with Nikon, I am not so sure they listen to customers like Canon did. I did a little web search and base image quality of D600 seems well received. As long as you don't use HDMI, it may be ok, but seems safer to test it if you could.


Again, I'm getting this information from DPR's reviews, which in my experience are generally very reliable.

As the D800 doesn't have this problem, I can only assume Nikon deliberately crippled the D600. Magic Lantern are known to offer well-received firmware hacks for the 5DII, we may well see something similar for the D600 (Panasonic GH1/2 is another camera which was eminently hackable).

Something else about the D600's movie options I haven't figured out yet are the two quality options it offers ("high" or "normal"). I'm thinking this might be something like the JPG qualities ("normal" or "fine"). According to EOSHD, the 5DIII's video output, even with the higher-quality All-I compression, doesn't match standard equivalent JPG's (when resolution is at 2mp). He goes so far to say that the 5DIII's video output looks more like 720p. My 5DII's output I'm generally very happy with, it looks like 1080p to me anyway.



Dec 26, 2012 at 04:55 PM
mco_970
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p.2 #8 · D600 vs 5D Mark II...what's your take?


PeaktoPeek wrote:
I had the grid screen on my 5D and I don't see much of a difference in brightness, if there's a difference it's not easily noticeable by me. I do see a difference with the 100% coverage, since I always seemed to get extra stuff in my 5D images that I didn't see through the viewfinder. It's probably more of a landscape thing.


EGD - the grid screen - is same brightness as the stock 5D2 screen
EGS - high precision matte - is darker than the stock 5D2 screen but you can see to focus fast lenses (for ex. my OM 50/1.2)

EGD or stock 5D2 screen is brighter than D600 screen
EGS is darker than D600 screen

Stock 5D2 screen is good for about f/2.8 lenses, if they are faster they may be hard to focus
Stock D600 screen is good for about f/2.2 lenses
EGS is good for very fast lenses




Dec 26, 2012 at 07:28 PM
dholl
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p.2 #9 · D600 vs 5D Mark II...what's your take?


mco_970 wrote:
EGD - the grid screen - is same brightness as the stock 5D2 screen
EGS - high precision matte - is darker than the stock 5D2 screen but you can see to focus fast lenses (for ex. my OM 50/1.2)

EGD or stock 5D2 screen is brighter than D600 screen
EGS is darker than D600 screen

Stock 5D2 screen is good for about f/2.8 lenses, if they are faster they may be hard to focus
Stock D600 screen is good for about f/2.2 lenses
EGS is good for very fast lenses


This might explain why I feel less comfortable manual-focussing my f1.4's on my 5DII than do on the 1D's. I'm gonna assume the 1D finder is also more suited to fast lenses?


oooopsdate: I think I've just sold my 5DII Met someone who really wants it, so will gather all my accessories and a couple of lenses and the money it raises will be enough to buy the D600 from MediaMarkt tomorrow. Of course, if I hate the viewfinder I won't buy...especially as there appears to be no alternative focus screens available. In that case I'll likely stick an extra few hundred Euros in the pot and get the 6D after all.

Will ooopdate the thread as and when...



Dec 27, 2012 at 02:15 AM
PeaktoPeek
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p.2 #10 · D600 vs 5D Mark II...what's your take?


Interesting -- this might be why I find it easier to tell when the D600 is in focus. I had a hard time telling if my 5D had really locked in on a focus point, even though it said it was. I can definitely see that the D600 has locked on, especially since I am using 1.8 lenses.
Looking forward to your impressions dholl, hopefully you as taken with it as we are.
Paul



Dec 27, 2012 at 06:32 AM
 

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ausemmao
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p.2 #11 · D600 vs 5D Mark II...what's your take?


dholl wrote:
Funnily enough, I find (subjectively again, haven't measured it) the viewfinder in my 1DII brighter and bigger than my full-frame 5DII. I find it easier to manual focus as a result. If the D600 is significantly darker and smaller than the 5DII then I'll have to re-think everything (again, haha).

Maybe I should accept the inevitable and realise my perfect camera is actually the 1DX or D4...time to start saving those pennies...



The 1D2 viewfinder is a lot smaller than the 5D's in actual size - it's actually slightly smaller than the 7D and D7000/300 viewfinders, so it's interesting you find it bigger.

The D600 finder is essentially identical to the D800 and D4 (minus some extra indicators), so it's a smidge smaller than the 5D2's. On the upside, f/1.8 lenses can be manual focused accurately, and f/1.4s if they're not too wide.



Dec 27, 2012 at 11:09 AM
dholl
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p.2 #12 · D600 vs 5D Mark II...what's your take?


PeaktoPeek wrote:
Looking forward to your impressions dholl, hopefully you as taken with it as we are.
Paul


Thanks! The 5DII is confirmed as sold now...it's going to a good home Gonna get the D600 either tomorrow or on Monday. Already have some nice lenses due to my old Nikon collection...my favourite's probably the AF 2.8/80-200 (plus the manual TC-200 is sometimes interesting).

Also have a Tokina AF 24-200 in Nikon mount plus couple of nice Nikkor Ai lenses (3.5/16, 2/24 & 1.4/50). And for really tele will use my Yashinon-DX 500mm (with M42 glass-adaptor...pics will hopefully be soft of the dreamy kind, bit like that weird Dreamagon lens). Have a 500mm Danubia too in T2 mount, this is surprisingly good...will get hold of a T2-Nikon adaptor and see how it does on the D600.

Future lenses: Sigma 12-24, 105 VR Micro, Sigma 600mm mirror with native Nikon mount. If the Tokina 24-200 isn't much cop on the D600 then there's plenty of other interesting options for good-value standard zooms. One of Nikon 28-105/28-200/24-120, or Tamron 24-135/28-200, or a fast variant from Tamron/Sigma with f2.8 (24-60, 24-70, 28-70, 28-75). Loads of options!

Future future lens if/when I have more funds: Nikon 1.4/85

Future future lens if/when I win the lottery (a.k.a. luxury lenses) Nikon 14-24, 200 VR Micro, 200-400 VR, Reflex-Nikkor 1000mm


I've heard from some online commenters that moving from Canon to Nikon suddenly meant a significant drop in lens choice (legacy & AF). This is certainly true, but there are still plenty of options out there, and fortunately Nikkor manual glass is among the best legacy glass out there (along with FD-mount L lenses, OM Zuikos and of course the many German classics).


ausemmao wrote:
The 1D2 viewfinder is a lot smaller than the 5D's in actual size - it's actually slightly smaller than the 7D and D7000/300 viewfinders, so it's interesting you find it bigger.

The D600 finder is essentially identical to the D800 and D4 (minus some extra indicators), so it's a smidge smaller than the 5D2's. On the upside, f/1.8 lenses can be manual focused accurately, and f/1.4s if they're not too wide.



Yeah, what you, Paul, MCO and the rest are saying is very interesting. I'll soon have my own input as to how the D600 viewfinder is when compared to Canon equivalents. The D600 will be my first Nikon full-frame (Nikon F analogue SLR's excepted, which generally all had nice big bright viewfinders).


I know it looks like I've babbled tons of words on this thread (and it sort of helps my thought processes) but the input from yourselves has been very useful...especially regarding the all-important viewfinder. Let's see what the next days bring...otherwise any further opinions, or any lens recommendations, will be appreciated I photo/video allsorts, so always need a decent varied selection of lenses. Big fan of thin depth-of-field & creamy bokeh but sometimes ultimate sharpness and that special 3D-look is called for. Already had a couple of high-quality Zeiss Planars...so may get one of them again (the macro, perhaps).





Dec 27, 2012 at 01:05 PM
mco_970
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p.2 #13 · D600 vs 5D Mark II...what's your take?


dholl wrote:
This might explain why I feel less comfortable manual-focussing my f1.4's on my 5DII than do on the 1D's. I'm gonna assume the 1D finder is also more suited to fast lenses?



You can also get the Canon high precision matte screens for 1D series... I am not sure what f-stop the stock screen is recommended for, but I don't think it's much different than 5D stock screen. I loved having a high precision screen in my 1D3 for manual focus.

I am also planning to add some ZF.2 lenses for my D600 at some point, once my Canon gear is cleared out. Probably just f/2 lenses, so the stock screen in D600 should not be an issue at all.



Dec 27, 2012 at 03:37 PM
mco_970
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p.2 #14 · D600 vs 5D Mark II...what's your take?


ps. I checked my 5D2 which is still here and definitely the stock 5D2 screen is quite a bit brighter than Nikon.

Doesn't bother me so much as I mostly used EGS, which makes the Nikon seem brighter.

I perceive them as the same size when I use the same focal length.



Dec 27, 2012 at 03:41 PM
dholl
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p.2 #15 · D600 vs 5D Mark II...what's your take?


mco_970 wrote:
ps. I checked my 5D2 which is still here and definitely the stock 5D2 screen is quite a bit brighter than Nikon.


mmmm.....well, the consensus really does seem to agree that the Nikon's viewfinders are darker. There's always something that gives one that niggling question mark, isn't there?

Looking at your profile, I see some stuffs of interest:


"NEX: 5N" - I also have this cam...and the GH2 too, they're meant as video-backups but mainly I use them as tester cameras for the hordes of lenses I tend to collect. Hardly use the NEX, I find myself using the GH2 a lot more. I think it's a handling thing (grip + more controls + viewfinder + proper flexiscreen). How you like yours? Ideal as a second-cam to a full-frame DSLR, I guess...partnered with the SEL 2.6/16 it probably even fits in a normal pocket.

"Getting ready to peel off some gear: OM 50/1.2, ZE50/2" - as my 1DII is a keeper, I'm mildly interested in these lenses. They'd also mount on my mirrorless cams. I still have my OM-1 too for the Zuiko, which is my favourite film SLR. The ZE I presume is the EOS-mount and not the Contax-mount? If you fancy selling or even swap we can maybe figure something out. Tho' my Hexanon 57mm f1.2 sadly doesn't stop down anymore.

"Trippin' on the dark side" - check



Dec 27, 2012 at 03:56 PM
DTOB
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p.2 #16 · D600 vs 5D Mark II...what's your take?


Regarding screens, Nikon doesn't make precision screens themselves, but I had an old inoperable Miranda Sensomat sitting around, I took the screen from it, filed the top and bottom slightly (the screen is plastic) and it was a perfect fit for my D700.

Now I can accurately focus with the entire screen down to 1.2, and the center has a microprism for added accuracy.

I looked into it for a few people in the MF Nikkor thread, it seems as though the D600 screen is replaceable just as the D7000 screen is. If you don't want to pay a company like katzeye $100+ for a new screen, see what you can find in the junk drawer. It only took me around 30mins to modify and install my screen. I love it, works great.



Dec 27, 2012 at 05:21 PM
dholl
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p.2 #17 · D600 vs 5D Mark II...what's your take?


DTOB wrote:
Regarding screens, Nikon doesn't make precision screens themselves, but I had an old inoperable Miranda Sensomat sitting around, I took the screen from it, filed the top and bottom slightly (the screen is plastic) and it was a perfect fit for my D700.

Now I can accurately focus with the entire screen down to 1.2, and the center has a microprism for added accuracy.

I looked into it for a few people in the MF Nikkor thread, it seems as though the D600 screen is replaceable just as the D7000 screen is. If you don't want to pay a company like
...Show more

Wow! Great job, mate. Excellent tip for those seeking to change modern focus screens.

But in some other great news:

Today I managed to get to a MediaMarkt: I asked the guy for the D600 + 1.8/50G. I wanted to see how the viewfinder looked with a f1.8 50mm lens, rather than a slow kit zoom. And it was bright! And seemed big! I don't have my 5DII anymore, that sale happened very quickly yesterday...but I did bring my 1DII with me, and planted my Takumar 1.8/55 on it. The viewfinder of my 1DII was significantly duller, and a touch smaller.

I tried some manual focussing on wide-open with the D600 and it seemed absolutely fine. Granted, the store was very bright...that typical white-brightness they all have. I couldn't find a warmer, darker corner anywhere. But still, I was pleasantly surprised by how much I liked the finder. Most of my manual-focussing through the optical-method is going to be with fast lenses, so this was very encouraging. I'm gonna assume a 5.6/400 or 8/500 lens will be a lot darker and more difficult, requiring bright daylight to focus accurately. I'm happy with that. A f2.8 Micro should be light enough to manual focus competently, based on that experience with the f1.8.


And more encouraging news for everyone looking to buy this camera. This all came from the sales assistant's mouth:

Nikon have been asking the major retail outlets which serial numbers have been affected by the dust problem (effectively which cameras have been returned because of it). This turned out to be serial numbers up to 3xxxxxx. Short of ordering a recall, or admitting the problem officially, Nikon shipped an entire new batch of D600's all with serial numbers 6xxxxxxx. Since then, the retail outlets have received next to no returns because of dust/oil spot issues.

According to the assistant: not just the D600, but a certain Nikon battery had some QC-issues too, and was also very close to being officially recalled, before being bulk-replaced by a new serial-number batch. And it's not just Nikon: apparently the Canon 650D had a very similar (i.e. self-causing) dust/oil spot problem as the early D600's - also solved by pushing new stock to the stores. It's not clear if the old stock is still on some retail shelves...


It was enlightening to have a conversation with a sales assistant who was up on the main themes. The store also had a D800 & 5DIII (no 6D), but I was pushed for time so didn't check them out. I like the shape of the D800, tho'...looks nice and bulky.

Incredibly, the 5DIII costs twice as much as the D600...the assistant told me everyone is buying the Nikons...even old Canonheads are not moved by the 5DIII.


All very interesting...good news for me as two main issues have been put to bed. As one or two of you have said here, there's no substitute for handling the thing yourself, and as it turns out, there's still room in this hectic world for a good old-fashioned informed natter with the shopkeep.


Reckon tomorrow or Saturday gonna splash the cash







Dec 28, 2012 at 01:24 AM
sonofjesse2010
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p.2 #18 · D600 vs 5D Mark II...what's your take?


I have owned both of these.

For me I like the newer tech of the D600, thats just me though. The 5D Mark II is a fine tool and I"m sure it will be taking fine pictures for years and years to come.

Since this is just a hobby, it was hard for me to justify keeping the 5D Mark III compared to what you get with the D600. Now I personaly still think the mark III is better, but the D600 is so close for my needs for 1/2 the price it was a no brainer for me personally to try the D600.



Dec 28, 2012 at 01:50 AM
dholl
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p.2 #19 · D600 vs 5D Mark II...what's your take?


sonofjesse2010 wrote:
I have owned both of these.

For me I like the newer tech of the D600, thats just me though. The 5D Mark II is a fine tool and I"m sure it will be taking fine pictures for years and years to come.

Since this is just a hobby, it was hard for me to justify keeping the 5D Mark III compared to what you get with the D600. Now I personaly still think the mark III is better, but the D600 is so close for my needs for 1/2 the price it was a no brainer for me personally
...Show more

I must admit, the new-tech part (in particular the extra features) has seduced me. But I agree the 5DII is still a near-perfect tool, and the best-priced full-frame full-HD tool out there.

I'm curious, why do you personally think the Mark III is a better camera than the D600? I would guess its superior controls plus clean ultra-high-ISO out-of-cam output. But what else does it have on the D600?



Dec 28, 2012 at 04:28 AM
dholl
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p.2 #20 · D600 vs 5D Mark II...what's your take?


dholl wrote:
a certain Nikon battery had some QC-issues too, and was also very close to being officially recalled, before being bulk-replaced by a new serial-number batch.



Oh, it has been officially recalled, with serial-number quote too:

in German



Dec 28, 2012 at 02:09 PM
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