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Archive 2012 · Negative Critique's
  
 
alohadave
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p.2 #1 · Negative Critique's


friscoron wrote:
But hey, this guy is a newbie and he really should be getting a feel for how we work before he gets up on the pulpit and preaches to us.


The best comment yet. Rule number 1 for online posting.



Dec 22, 2012 at 04:42 PM
Michaelparris
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p.2 #2 · Negative Critique's


friscoron wrote:
That's exactly what this is about. I looked at the thread and I think the people in there were definitely trying to be helpful. Personally, I chose not to add my comments to that thread and now I'm glad I didn't.

Michael, some of our best members of this forum rarely post photos, including the first person that this guy stated appreciation for in the original thread. You don't have to post pictures here to be a valuable member of our community. The forum is about having an engaged conversation and discussion about our photos, and most of us like
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I will say it again, armchair QB's are a dime a dozen......There is a difference between being in the business for 50 years and owning a camera for 50 years. Some people around here need to put there money where there mouth is. Your last quote smells of what I mentioned earlier....I have a bunch of posts so therefor let me tell you how we do things around here......Good ol' boy's club.



Dec 22, 2012 at 05:30 PM
markperez
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p.2 #3 · Negative Critique's


normsmith wrote:
I find it interesting that someone with 15 posts on FM is spouting off like this.


+1



Dec 22, 2012 at 07:31 PM
Ed Peters
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p.2 #4 · Negative Critique's


As with many photo posts, don't really have anything to add (especially about the OP), so I'll pass..


Dec 22, 2012 at 08:35 PM
deinfaces
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p.2 #5 · Negative Critique's


Over the past 6 months or so I have found the comments on this forum to be very helpful. Only once have I gotten a negative comment without a suggestion on how to improve.


Dec 22, 2012 at 10:29 PM
rbritt1
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p.2 #6 · Negative Critique's


elliotkramer wrote:
The lighting is set up in an unusual manner which does not look natural to me. The light is harsh. The background looks "greenscreened" - especially in the first. I don't like the processing - too contrasty and perhaps overly sharpened.


This was an example of a negative critique', and when I asked for his sugestions and example, , none was provided.



Dec 22, 2012 at 10:39 PM
campyone
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p.2 #7 · Negative Critique's


For anyone seriously interested in learning how to critique a photograph I'd suggest reading the book "Criticizing Photographs: An Introduction To Understanding Images" by Terry Barrett. It was a huge help to me when I was more or less suddenly called on to critique about 15-20 photographs six times a semester for a year. It's not a long book, about 140 pages. Barring that, the OP makes some good points I think.


Dec 22, 2012 at 10:57 PM
Mitchell Carter
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p.2 #8 · Negative Critique's


rbritt1 wrote:

This was an example of a negative critique', and when I asked for his sugestions and example, , none was provided.


Because he took the trouble to critique your pictures -- for free -- he is not now obligated to elaborate, or validate himself by posting his own images. If he had told you that your lighting was fabulous, would you have asked him to prove it?

Praise feels good, Rdritt1, but it rarely helps us make better pictures the way negative criticism can. And unearned praise is less than worthless.

You're not alone in your attitude. Many people shy away from offering their opinion about an image they don't like. Ever notice that beautiful pictures get pages of comments, while mediocre ones don't? My biggest fear when posting an image is that no one will say anything!



Dec 23, 2012 at 12:28 AM
jojomon11
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p.2 #9 · Negative Critique's


rbritt1 wrote:

This was an example of a negative critique', and when I asked for his sugestions and example, , none was provided.


That is not negative critique IMO, I have had way worse. Honestly if you can't take the heat do not ask for critique. You can post pics and just say "just sharing no critique please" and people will honor that, I have done it in the past.

I would love someone to say that to me, and yes my people shots suck, go to my website, oh well



Dec 23, 2012 at 12:59 AM
 



Andre Labonte
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p.2 #10 · Negative Critique's


Michaelparris wrote:
Trench, the guy makes a somewhat valid point in that post. One thing I am not a big fan of is armchair quarterbacks's....God know's there are plenty of those around here.



Oh that's a consistent perspective Michael. To sum up the gist of what you have said between the two threads:

You don't need more than 15 post to jump on a soap box and admonish the whole forum, but by golly, you had better post pictures regularly or you are an armchair quaterback and that is bad!

Contradiction!!!!

(yes, I know, sarcasm in a thread about being polite ... bad Andre, bad )


Personally I think people should be polite, but then again, there are those like the OP who quite frankly seem to be way over-racting and perhaps coming off as a bit out of place given the short history on the forum. It seems the negative critique by elliotkramer was spot on and by its nature implied to the OP what he had to fix.

If an image deserves a negative critique, it deserves a negative critique, but that critque could at least be delivered politely. I don't see that elliotkramer was rude in any way. He just straight up told the OP the way it is ... as trenchmonkey said: looks like SOMEBODY got their feelings hurt here and now is acting like a BIG BABY!



Dec 23, 2012 at 01:07 AM
Andre Labonte
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p.2 #11 · Negative Critique's


rbritt1 wrote:

This was an example of a negative critique', and when I asked for his sugestions and example, , none was provided.



Seems to me that elliotkramer was telling you what you could improve. Maybe not explaning how to improve it in full detail, but he's clearly identifying where you need to start. And quite frankly, I think he hit the nail on the head. Get over your ego or over-sensativity and move on.



Dec 23, 2012 at 01:11 AM
tdurnan
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p.2 #12 · Negative Critique's


So here are my thoughts on this.

1. I agree that some comments and critiques are harsh when first interpreted, but....after being on here for a while one learns that in most cases there is something to be heard or seen, but we haven't learned that there is truth in what is being said.

2. Most people who complain about critiques haven't learned how to separate themselves from their work enough to be able to look at it from the outside in thus allowing them to grow from what is being said. i.e. looking at their work from the outside in like others do. This was a stumbling point for myself for many years on this forum, but having said that now I look and try to see what other people have been seeing all along and my work is stronger for it.

3. Group hugs don't exist in the outside world. Most people offer critique or feedback in a negative light. The reality is that most is still valid just not comfortable to receive. Separate personal feelings from your work and grow with both positive and negative feedback. Both are equally valid.



Dec 23, 2012 at 04:40 AM
Michaelparris
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p.2 #13 · Negative Critique's


Andre Labonte wrote:
Oh that's a consistent perspective Michael. To sum up the gist of what you have said between the two threads:

You don't need more than 15 post to jump on a soap box and admonish the whole forum, but by golly, you had better post pictures regularly or you are an armchair quaterback and that is bad!

Contradiction!!!!

(yes, I know, sarcasm in a thread about being polite ... bad Andre, bad )

Personally I think people should be polite, but then again, there are those like the OP who quite frankly seem to be way over-racting and perhaps
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I don't see any contradiction but if you say so.....
speaking about yourself in the third person......O.K.



Dec 23, 2012 at 05:31 AM
Michaelparris
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p.2 #14 · Negative Critique's


tdurnan wrote:
So here are my thoughts on this.

1. I agree that some comments and critiques are harsh when first interpreted, but....after being on here for a while one learns that in most cases there is something to be heard or seen, but we haven't learned that there is truth in what is being said.

2. Most people who complain about critiques haven't learned how to separate themselves from their work enough to be able to look at it from the outside in thus allowing them to grow from what is being said. i.e. looking at their work from the outside in
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I will add a fourth and fifth: Some people love to show how much knowledge they have in regards to photography but will never post a picture because they can't put there money where there mouth is and Some people have no clue what the word "tact" means.



Dec 23, 2012 at 05:37 AM
markperez
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p.2 #15 · Negative Critique's


Michaelparris wrote:
I will add a fourth and fifth: Some people love to show how much knowledge they have in regards to photography but will never post a picture because they can't put there money where there mouth is and Some people have no clue what the word "tact" means.


you must be talking about yourself



Dec 23, 2012 at 08:42 AM
ct8282
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p.2 #16 · Negative Critique's


Every now and then we have a case of people overreacting to negative comments or critique. We have even lost some of the best and most talented photo contributors as a result as I'm sure some of you will remember.

I'm not necessarily directing this statement at anyone in this thread, but really we all need to understand that we're on a public forum where each member has the privilege of free speech in what he/she writes. We ALL have different opinions and will at times exercise our right to free speech when providing feedback on people's images, especially when specifically asked to provide feedback. If someone provides details about what they don't like in an image then its up to the OP of the images to either take those comments on board as a different point of view and maybe consider making changes the next time around, or completely disregard the comments altogether. Just as each member has the ability to comment freely anyone posting images has the ability to pass right over those comments. It certainly makes no sense getting upset or reacting emotionally when someone says something other than 'oh wow your shots are perfect'.

Perhaps it would be slightly different if someone said something like 'your pics are sh*t and you have zero talent. You should quit photography right now'. (Extreme example) but maybe in this case then we could reasonably expect them to provide some form of qualifying statement to justify such feedback but even then it's still up to the poster to provide one, or not as the case may be.

Either way, if we're not happy with the feedback provided we can ignore it or ask for further information about the feedback. But really don't let it ruin your day. Overall the feedback and critique provided by this forums members is fantastic and I personally have learned more from the C&C process on FM than anywhere else during my photographic days. I've had negative critique, as I'm sure we all have, but have used those comments to my advantage. By throwing your toys out the pram you might invariably make people shy away from providing honest constructive feedback in future so the only person losing out will be yourself.




Dec 23, 2012 at 09:39 AM
ESC in KC
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p.2 #17 · Negative Critique's


elliotkramer wrote:
The lighting is set up in an unusual manner which does not look natural to me. The light is harsh. The background looks "greenscreened" - especially in the first. I don't like the processing - too contrasty and perhaps overly sharpened.


rbritt1 wrote:

This was an example of a negative critique', and when I asked for his sugestions and example, , none was provided.


I see numerous suggestions for improvement within his critique - not sure what else you need? Here are the suggestions I saw him give you:

* Use a more conventional and natural lighting setup.
* Use less harsh lighting.
* Try to avoid making it look like it is green-screened when you do your post processing.
* Reduce the contrast and sharpening.

It's up to you to do your own work - if you don't know what "usual lighting" is and need examples, try googling for photo studio lighting and will find plenty of examples of 'usual' lighting. Same for every other point of critique he offered you.

It's not the responsibility of the person offering critique to do your work for you.



Dec 23, 2012 at 12:30 PM
Andre Labonte
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p.2 #18 · Negative Critique's


ESC in KC wrote:
I see numerous suggestions for improvement within his critique - not sure what else you need? Here are the suggestions I saw him give you:

* Use a more conventional and natural lighting setup.
* Use less harsh lighting.
* Try to avoid making it look like it is green-screened when you do your post processing.
* Reduce the contrast and sharpening.

It's up to you to do your own work - if you don't know what "usual lighting" is and need examples, try googling for photo studio lighting and will find plenty of examples of 'usual' lighting. Same for every other point
...Show more


Well Put KC



Dec 23, 2012 at 01:27 PM
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