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Archive 2012 · Instagram wants your images...for free!!
  
 
RustyBug
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p.2 #1 · Instagram wants your images...for free!!


Here's another thought ... not just people, but places, i.e. property release.

While John Q. Public (sans model release, etc.) might not have the gumption to do squat up against FB, etc. ... recognizable property owners could have a bit more to say about such things. If I'm reading you correctly, your point is that FB entering into an agreement with a member via TOS doesn't replace the need (as appropriately required) for a model release or property release for commercial (i.e. advertising) purposes ... as they never acquired the rights, therefore they cannot reassign them onto FB, et al.

I can see a whole bunch of people (i.e. FB, etc.) trying to claim "fair use" & "editorial" ... when they are really just striving to "cheap out". I seem to have argued against this thing at the "blogger" level once or twice before when people were saying it was "no biggie" ... interesting how slippery the slope has become.



Dec 20, 2012 at 10:37 PM
TT1000
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p.2 #2 · Instagram wants your images...for free!!


@rusty "FB entering into an agreement with a member via TOS doesn't replace the need (as appropriately required) for a model release or property release for commercial (i.e. advertising) purposes ... as they never acquired the rights, therefore they cannot reassign them onto FB, et al."

Yes, if FB wants to use or license to third party to use the photo for ad purposes (setting aside whether, apart from trademark issues, one ever needs a release for property. I know Getty among others take a conservative tack and want releases for property:

https://contribute.gettyimages.com/producer/help/releases )


"I can see a whole bunch of people (i.e. FB, etc.) trying to claim "fair use" & "editorial" ... when they are really just striving to "cheap out". "

If you can successfully argue it's not advertising you're OK. Either the use is for advertising or not. If it is advertising, "fair use" doesn't come into play; "fair use" is an affirmative defense to a claim of copyright infringement but not relevant when defending a state law claim for exploiting your likeness without your permission.

More to the point. If I'm a potential licensee, I don't want to worry about any of this. What I want is FB to indemnify me against any claims from my use of the photo in accordance with my license from FB. If I'm FB, how can I do this if I don't have releases for the photo subjects ? Do they just do it on your we probably won't get sued theory ? Does that really work if they are going into licensing photos as a business ?





Dec 21, 2012 at 07:27 AM
RustyBug
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p.2 #3 · Instagram wants your images...for free!!


TT1000 wrote:
Do they just do it on your we probably won't get sued theory ?



Just for clarity ... I'm not suggesting any propriety in this ... just that the "catch me if you can" and "it's too much hassle" (et al) approaches have longstanding history in conjunction with strong-arm tactics. Thus, it wouldn't surprise me if that is factored in.

We've seen similar many times in the smaller arenas, where the penalty of "take down" served as no deterrent to perpetuating violations. If FB isn't concerned with the magnitude of the possible deterrent, then it doesn't serve as much of one ... until it is actually executed, and proven that they should be.

Getting caught with your hand in the cookie jar and only having to say "I'm sorry" isn't much of a deterrent.

+1 @ potential licensee not wanting it "looming" over their head, expecting FB to be a provider of indemnification included. But, not all markets are so concerned ... likely some willing to "roll the dice" until they get caught, then they can feign ignorance, claiming it to be FB responsibility , etc.

Time will tell ... we'll see it/how this plays out.

I really wasn't speaking to the propriety of FB trying to do this as to becoming another Getty. Just mostly the fact that the masses (i.e. not us) largely don't ever pay attention to their TOS that FB has ... and it comes as no surprise that FB would now strive for similar with Instagram.

Whether or not FB / Instagram can / will do much with it ... yet to be seen ... but it won't be with my images.



Dec 21, 2012 at 02:55 PM
TT1000
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p.2 #4 · Instagram wants your images...for free!!


Rusty, try this you might like it. Seriously.

https://www.edx.org/courses/HarvardX/HLS1x/2013_Spring/about

I had to pay $$$$$$ to go to law school. You can learn for free. If they accept you -- but I think your story is compelling:

Dear Sirs. I'm a frequent contributor to FM, a photography related website, and I like to discuss IP and other legal issues. Rather than discuss it with random online persons more or less reliable usually less, I would like to discuss it with you and your esteemed and learned colleagues at the school American "Conservatives" love to attack as "elitist" but love to attend, see, e.g., Mitt Romney. I look forward to hearing from you.




Dec 21, 2012 at 11:54 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



RustyBug
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p.2 #5 · Instagram wants your images...for free!!


Thanks for the link ... my application is submitted.

I dropped the Mitt Romney slant ... but I did include the fact that I have had experience with an international organization using a publisher in UK to use my works without authorization in both print and online, and the ensuing legal matters that followed regarding both US and international perspectives.

A few other things as well, but given the notoriety of Harvard ... I expect only a select portion of the applicants to be chosen. We'll see ... I'll be sure and let you know if I get selected.

Thanks again.



Dec 22, 2012 at 04:29 AM
TT1000
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p.2 #6 · Instagram wants your images...for free!!


Yes, dropping my suggested application was a good move. I was kidding obviously but not about applying. They look to want a very diverse class and no legal background required.

Good luck. I hope you get in and, if so, I hope you find it beneficial.



Dec 22, 2012 at 05:38 AM
RustyBug
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p.2 #7 · Instagram wants your images...for free!!


Good to hear that I had a fairly good read at your post ... i.e. a touch snarky in presentation, but sincere in content/intent.

Thanks again. I'm hopeful ... but my family is just "rolling their eyes" thinking it'll only add fuel to the fire.



Dec 22, 2012 at 03:53 PM
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