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Archive 2012 · Tell me what’s wrong with this
  
 
AuntiPode
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p.2 #1 · Tell me what’s wrong with this


The way to do that is to live out of an RV and plan to stay at a site for as many months as it takes to get the shot. Of course, one won't get many different images that way and the cost in time and money is quite high per keeper. Personally, I have a household, people and critters to care for. If I were footloose and carefree, I could spend a few years that way. Most folks can't. We have to rely on luck or resort to PS to make our own luck.


Dec 07, 2012 at 08:12 PM
ben egbert
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p.2 #2 · Tell me what’s wrong with this


Camper Jim sort of does it that way. I would like to. I am retired, but lack the RV or a place to park it.

I have really given it some thought however.

I suppose the alternative is to get interested in non landscape stuff. But I have cycled through all the candidates.



Dec 07, 2012 at 08:18 PM
Camperjim
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p.2 #3 · Tell me what’s wrong with this


Yes, I have spent most of the past 2 years traveling in an RV. Unfortunately I do not have the patience to wait for days, weeks or months at a single location.

Even spending close to fulltime with photography, results can be disappointing. I rarely can force myself to get up for sunrise especially in the summer when the days are long and I go to bed late. I do try to find a decent location for the end of the day but even that is generally disappointing. If the skies are clear in the desert southwest then sunsets are not very dramatic. Since I do lots of travel, hiking and sightseeing, the bulk of my photography seems to be during the day. I try my hardest to tell a story about my location, to shoot different comps and angles, to shoot macro or landscape telephotos or ultra wides. I try to bring something different to what would otherwise be a routine travel snap. Sometimes those efforts work well, but usually I just end up with a decent travel "record" image certainly not fine art quality. I do try some photoshop techniques to improve images. Once in a while I will add a bird to a seashore image or I will move a Yellowstone buffalo to a better location or change the sky.

If we depended on OOC processing, we would have little except dull, uninteresting images. Simple processing techniques seem to be essential and have a huge impact. I would include WB, colors and saturation, contrast, exposure, and dodge and burning. I don't find any of these easy. It seems like even small changes can have a big impact.



Dec 07, 2012 at 09:12 PM
finnianp
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p.2 #4 · Tell me what’s wrong with this


There is nothing wrong with it at all, but what is your intended response to the image?

As you wrote on your site: "A great picture grabs your attention. It has some element that just reaches out to you and forces you to look and keep looking... It has to have something else besides just its everyday physical charateristics. A pretty scene is just a pretty scene until some special thing happens."



Dec 07, 2012 at 09:22 PM
ben egbert
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p.2 #5 · Tell me what’s wrong with this


Its an existential type question. The obvious answer is not a satisfying one. I posted this shot as a failed shot more as a conversation starter than anything. I really don't have anything worth posting here. But I am not ready to quit the forum.

To all, check out this image posted on landscape today. A few clouds, but they don't make the shot, the light makes it.

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1172093/0#11173184



Dec 07, 2012 at 09:27 PM
AuntiPode
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p.2 #6 · Tell me what’s wrong with this


Oh, I never suggested waiting months for the right light and weather was practical or sane, just that it was the only sure way to be sure to get something good.


Dec 07, 2012 at 09:54 PM
Camperjim
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p.2 #7 · Tell me what’s wrong with this


There is a saying that the best way to get beautiful pictures is to go and shoot at some place that is beautiful.

At many if not most places you can wait "months for the right light and weather.." and still not end up with anything worthwhile. I have been lucky enough to go to many places where it is all but impossible to take bad pictures. The Bryce amphitheater is one such place. It is really easy to take good pictures almost without waiting for special light and weather. Unfortunately we have all seen those images and it is easy to be bored with them.



Dec 07, 2012 at 11:33 PM
Camperjim
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p.2 #8 · Tell me what’s wrong with this


ben egbert wrote:
Its an existential type question. The obvious answer is not a satisfying one. I posted this shot as a failed shot more as a conversation starter than anything. I really don't have anything worth posting here. But I am not ready to quit the forum.

To all, check out this image posted on landscape today. A few clouds, but they don't make the shot, the light makes it.

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1172093/0#11173184


I just looked at your link. As far as I am concerned this proves my point getting good pictures from good locations. Deadhorse Point does not require unusual lighting or unusual weather. Practically any sunrise or sunset will give you great images. I have piles of good images from this location from almost every day that I have visited. Not far away is Needles Overlook. The vista is spectacular but it is all but impossible to photograph well. I have tried numerous times and only have red sunset skies and some telephoto images, not a single wide landscape worth much except for the memories.



Dec 07, 2012 at 11:44 PM
ben egbert
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p.2 #9 · Tell me what’s wrong with this


I was at Dead horse once, not much light, too cloudy. Never got back but i will for sure. This is a place that you ought to be camp because its so far from Moab. Mesa Arch is another place, all it takes is a clear sky to get the glow. But in 4 trips I have one glow, the rest are cloudy. In fact both places were ruined by clouds not for lack of clouds.

The Watchman is gorgeous even with a clear sky but would be terrific with a colorful sunset.






Dec 08, 2012 at 12:52 AM
Camperjim
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p.2 #10 · Tell me what’s wrong with this


ben egbert wrote:
I was at Dead horse once, not much light, too cloudy. Never got back but i will for sure. This is a place that you ought to be camp because its so far from Moab. Mesa Arch is another place, all it takes is a clear sky to get the glow. But in 4 trips I have one glow, the rest are cloudy. In fact both places were ruined by clouds not for lack of clouds.

The Watchman is gorgeous even with a clear sky but would be terrific with a colorful sunset.


Sounds like you had really bad luck. Typically almost any morning or afternoon at DHP will give good light. I think I actually prefer the late afternoon light and it seems to last much longer.

BTW, I was processing some of my travel photos and found a big butte with a much more dramatic sky. I think this adds to my point about being at a great place to get great images. Even with a good sky this remains just a good travel photo.





Butte from Potash Road




Dec 08, 2012 at 01:29 AM
 

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Mister Bean
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p.2 #11 · Tell me what’s wrong with this


Here's a black and white conversion. It doesn't really work either. Black and white is a beast of its own. Sometimes it works to convert to black and white to salvage a photo, but generally it's going to work best when intentionally shot with that purpose in mind. I do find that it can be somewhat kinder to mid-day photos than color, so I'll sometimes use it then. But I'm still looking for the right kind of thing for it.








Dec 08, 2012 at 04:32 AM
RustyBug
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p.2 #12 · Tell me what’s wrong with this


Took a stab at B&W ...







Dec 08, 2012 at 05:23 AM
AuntiPode
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p.2 #13 · Tell me what’s wrong with this


I like the Butte, Jim. Maybe rotate it a bit?







Dec 08, 2012 at 05:47 AM
Camperjim
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p.2 #14 · Tell me what’s wrong with this


Karen, thanks for your version.

I do think you overdid the rotation, but as usual it comes down to a matter of taste. I try to level with the strongest horizontal line. Sometimes especially for southern Utah that means the image level will be more than 30 degrees from true level. Here I did not identify a single strong horizontal. I left the level as shot. That level matches the striations in the front of the butte and also had the effect of bringing attention to the front of the butte. At one time I had thought about heavily darkening most of the image and leaving only the front of the butte well illuminated.

To me your orientation seems to slant down on the left side. I think the tilt of the dark shadow above the bank causes that feeling. I do see your orientation matches the river bank. I am not trying to argue this issue but rather just trying to explain my logic.

I have been told that each of us has a tendency to shoot out of level on a consistent basis. I believe it is supposed to be related to handedness. If it helps the explanation I am left handed. I also tend to shoot with the horizon slanting downwards on the right side. In addition a slight slant in that direction seems natural to me. I suppose I should do an internet search and see if I can find more information on this topic.

Ben, I know you like to stimulation discussion so I hope my image and additional discussion has not disrupted your thread.



Dec 08, 2012 at 11:48 AM
ben egbert
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p.2 #15 · Tell me what’s wrong with this


Jim, I do like to stimulate discussion, like I said it's the off season so what else to do? Like your Butte a lot, but prefer Karen's rotation.

I wonder, do landscapes need more than other work? Very ordinary boring subjects with artificial light, or flat light or odd ball settings get a pass, but a landscape must be over the top.

On the B&W conversions. Thanks for doing them, it shows another approach.



Dec 08, 2012 at 02:53 PM
sbeme
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p.2 #16 · Tell me what’s wrong with this


Jim,
I think the Butte shot is more than documentary. The sky, color make it work beyond a technical nice travelogue entry.
Ben,
I agree. Fine to post so-so images for exactly this kind of interesting discussion.
We have all been there.
Sometimes, when I look over at the Landscape forum I despair. Not only is the quality of posted images very high, even if the saturation tend to be over the top, but its that same reaction: Got to be at a wonderful place at the right time.
And there is only so much time, so many places I can be at.
One reason why I have tried to continue to develop my skill at taking a wide range of subjects and try to see when I can find something of interest, or I can make of interest in the everyday scenes around me. Usually I fail, but it aids my development as a photographer, enhances my awareness and appreciation of what is right there in front of me, and sometimes leads to engaging images! I also will go out of my way to shoot different subject. Rusted cars, then architectural, then an occ street shot, then a flower or two, shift to some birds, think about landscape opportunities. Its good to mix it up. I get less stale.
There is, of course, a place for travelogue photography as well.

Scott



Dec 08, 2012 at 03:00 PM
AuntiPode
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p.2 #17 · Tell me what’s wrong with this


Water seeks level. Generally, if you have water you can often use it to properly level an image. Sometimes the boundary of water/land isn't level, but there is often other indications from the water. I'm pretty sure the horizontal bands of reflection on the water in this image can be used to determine what's level or at least what the brain expects for level. I did a quick and dirty rotation by eye and over-rotated it by 0.56 degrees. If you rotate it CW by 0.56 degrees the water should be level.


Dec 08, 2012 at 06:12 PM
Camperjim
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p.2 #18 · Tell me what’s wrong with this


So if I understand true level is probably halfway between what I had and what your version. And I thought you were the artist type. You appear to be more precision oriented than some of our engineering types. I guess I need to find the bubble level.


Dec 09, 2012 at 12:32 AM
ben egbert
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p.2 #19 · Tell me what’s wrong with this


interesting thing. I see out of level much faster than a color cast. But I am fine with true level as opposed to perceived level. That is, if there is a natural slope and I know the shot was level, I am happy with it.

Like Karen, I look for water clues, but other clues could be a snow line or shadows.



Dec 09, 2012 at 12:50 AM
AuntiPode
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p.2 #20 · Tell me what’s wrong with this


Actually I mostly work by eye and only get precision when I need to explain, Jim. Using the water bands to level it, your original needed 5 degrees of CCW rotation to level and, working Q & D by eye I gave it 5.5 degrees, over-correcting by half a degree - 10%.

If it's any consolation, when I set my horizons by eye and post, folks are happy to correct me for even half a degree of error. Fussy critiques. It's what we do.



Dec 09, 2012 at 01:08 AM
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