Home · Register · Search · View Winners · Software · Hosting · Software · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username   Password

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Pro Digital Corner | Join Upload & Sell

  

Archive 2012 · Camera Advice
  
 
GeorgeBay
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Camera Advice


Hello this is my first time on this forum, I am a former pro from the film days, I am now interested in establishing a small studio once again, Portraits/Events. My question, ...is it absolutely necessary to spend 3 to 4 thousand dollars on one of these top of the line Full Frame Canons or Nikons to get good quality images? or are some of these mid priced cameras suitable? ..if that is so, some recommendations would be appreciated. I constantly read camera reviews and it seems like whenever they review a lesser priced camera there is always that BUT in the conclusion, usually relating to noise in low light ..or some other image degrading flaw!

Thanks George



Dec 06, 2012 at 03:33 PM
Hammy
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Camera Advice


WTF!

Welcome to FredMiranda!

I moved from film to digital about 11 years ago. My emphasis was sports, so my first digital body was the 1D. 8fps and RGB snowfield at 1600ISO - but that didn't stop me from using it! We're now roughly 5 generations ahead of where I started with the 1Dx (in the 1D series) not to mention the other D?? and ?D series.

As a general rule: Each new generation of body will have better high ISO capability. Meaning that the lower ISO ranges improve also.
Also, generally, each new series improves in AF capability and/or options/features to help you achieve more 'programmable' results for your shooting style.
Finally, with each new model, AF resolution usually goes up - which is usually the marketing point - and where many photographers feel they NEED GigaPixel sensors.


As you probably know from the film days, a camera is just a tool. How you understand how it works and use it in the manner that fits your need is paramount to the technical specifications of the tool.
For whatever camera you choose to get, there WILL be limitations. It's knowing how to get around or live with those limitations (i.e.: read the manual a few times) that will make you love or hate your investment.
That being said, it is also generally assumed that with each new generation of body, the tool is designed better and it will help/allow/assist you in getting more keepers if you are demanding of it: whether it be in the range of high ISO or more tuneable AF performance.

As I always tell new startups (though you're not one of them): get good glass first. That's going to make your photos better than any body will. And with good glass, it will last you through several generations of bodies.

Personally, my common shooting gear select is a Canon 1D MarkII-N with 200/1.8 lens. And I shoot it at medium (4Mpix) resolution. For my nichè, I shoot youth sporting events, where we take up to 200,000 images per day. We fill our frame with glass, the glass gives me enough light for decent ISO and I already have 22TB of storage filled up... just two years worth of images.
I'll be moving to the 1D4 and/or 1DX soon, mostly for serviceability, and eventually to newer 200/2 lens, but for our needs, I don't find myself needed to spend $6000 every 18 months on a new body. (multiply that times 3-4 as my wife and daughter shoot also and I commonly shoot a remote)

Recommendations? Again, for me, start with glass. If Nikon has better glass for your situation, get a Nikon body or vice versa.
I've read on these forums that generally, Canon is better suited for longer range stuff: mid to super telephotos and such, Nikon is better for wide to normal. Canon has it's emphasis on speed (fps), Nikon seems to have chosen the quality route (colors/low noise).
If you look back over the years, it's easy to see how they generally leap frog each other with each new release - but lately it seems to be more what you're looking for: speed vs quality. This is on the high end bodies. For all the mid range stuff - I think its a crap shoot and one would need to compare spex to find what each is capable of.

So depending on your needs, there are plenty of solutions out there - maybe some more specific to your nichè.



Dec 06, 2012 at 04:15 PM
myam203
Online
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Camera Advice


Hi George. Welcome to the forum!

Hammy is right--glass is most important. As far as cameras go, I think it all depends on what your needs and expectations are. The mid-range cameras are excellent right now (i.e. Nikon D7000 or Canon 60D), but the full frame ones are often still just a little bit better in areas like ruggedness, AF speed, FPS, and noise. You have to decide if that extra bit of performance matters to you and your work.

I'm mostly familiar with Nikon, and I can tell you that the D7000 is great to at least ISO 1600 (some will say 3200), has great AF performance, and shoots at 6 FPS, but someone like a pro sports shooter might want the edge that a D3S or D4 gives them. We're talking about extremes here though, because the mid-range cameras leave little to be desired for most users.

If it were me, I'd actually be looking for a used full frame Nikon D700 (not D7000) on the Buy & Sell forum here... it's an incredible camera and they're going for around $1500 right now.



Dec 06, 2012 at 04:34 PM
GeorgeBay
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Camera Advice


Thanks for your response Hammy & Mike! When you fellows say (Get Good Glass) are you saying that that Nikon & Canon offer different grades of lens's? or are you referring to aftermarket lens manufacturers?

Edited on Dec 06, 2012 at 06:13 PM · View previous versions



Dec 06, 2012 at 05:41 PM
garydavidjones
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Camera Advice


What events? For studio use, best buy now in my opinion is the Canon 5D2. full-frame,
discounted considerably from its introduction in 2009. excellent IQ. I use it for
my macrophotography (mainly flowers). For action I use the 5D3.



Dec 06, 2012 at 05:46 PM
martines34
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Camera Advice


If you are new to FM then take advantage of "Reviews" which are submitted by members of this board. THey rate lenses and bodies. There are enough submissions to help you make a decision.

If most of the digital imaging will be new to you then you will also have to learn post processing which I am sure that you already know.

If you have a good local club to join I would start there and see what fellow members can help you with.

There is a learning curve on all of this so proceed slowly and invest in good glass.



Dec 06, 2012 at 05:58 PM
GeorgeBay
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Camera Advice


Thank You Martines34! as I mentioned above "When you fellows say (Get Good Glass) are you saying that that Nikon & Canon offer different grades of lens's? or are you referring to aftermarket lens manufacturers?"

In other words the lens a camera comes with right from Canon or Nikon, is that considered their best glass?



Dec 06, 2012 at 06:11 PM
Hammy
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Camera Advice


George,

For glass manufacturers, Canon and Nikon have different 'grades' of lenses. The "L" series for Canon and I'm sure Nikon has a designation also - are considered their premium lenses: fast, clear, sharp, IS/VR, etc...
Then they have more 'general' lenses that work great, but don't necessarily open up a few more f-stops for lower light/bokeh performance.
Finally, there is a consumer/kit class of lenses that come with low end bodies.

For the most part, all the lenses will transmit light and get an image, but when it comes to edge to edge sharpness, contrast, AF performance, IS/VR performance, build quality, etc... the more you pay, the better it will be.

But there are also plenty of third party lenses that can be had. Some of these fill a void where Nikon/Canon are missing - others are simply less expensive version that will perform mostly like a name brand.
Sigma, Tamron and Tokina are probably the ones that equate to the 'mid-range' lenses of the name brands. There are others that are cheaper and some (Zeiss) that are more expensive.

Again, it all comes down to what you need/want. My favorite lenses are again the Canon 200/1.8 (which has no equal) and the Tokina 12-14/4. I own two of each!

Parts of your equation of lens/body choice are:
- low light? (f/stop capable: primes or fast zoom)
- IS/VR (low light or panning)
- AF performance (or studio work)
- bokeh (love it or leave it with fast lenses)
- crop factor of camera body (this varies your lens reach from what it says on the barrel to up to 60% extension)

Oh, and we haven't even talked about the exciting realm of video which most bodies are capable of... where a single cine lens can exceed the cost of a really nice car!



Dec 06, 2012 at 06:40 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



jerbear00
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Camera Advice


GeorgeBay wrote:
Hello this is my first time on this forum, I am a former pro from the film days, I am now interested in establishing a small studio once again, Portraits/Events. My question, ...is it absolutely necessary to spend 3 to 4 thousand dollars on one of these top of the line Full Frame Canons or Nikons to get good quality images? or are some of these mid priced cameras suitable? ..if that is so, some recommendations would be appreciated. I constantly read camera reviews and it seems like whenever they review a lesser priced camera there is always that BUT
...Show more

Nope. If you shoot studio only why not grab a used 5d with a 85 1.8 for about 800 bucks then invest in some good light. Stop it down and your results will be marvelous



Dec 06, 2012 at 06:44 PM
jefferies1
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Camera Advice


For portraits it is more your lens than the camera body. Shooting in low ISO and limiting enlargements to a normal size, under 16x20 most will do a good job. Maybe even purchase softwear to enlarge past what would be quality out of camera. I shoot 50% of my portraits with a 5DII at 1/2 full size unless I expect to need a large print.
For events you will want all the high ISO quality you can get. This is one area that keeps improving. The 5D was good compared to the 30D but the 5DII will make the same image look 2 times better using high ISO. Same for the 5DIII. This will allow you to improve your quality in low light which is where most events happen, at least for me. The high ISO and good lens makes a combo that I never worry what lighting will be like at a event as I did a few years ago.

Video is another option for event shooters. You can book a trade show then offer a add on for video interviews or video the main speaker. They all want web site and facebook content. Countless options after you master the system.

Start lower end then save money and expand. You will need a back-up body, lens and flash for event work anyway. Don't even think of booking a 'one time' shoot without back-up in hand. At least with most portraits you have time to re-start if a error happens in camera. Any slight delay and missing the main photos at a event and you will be reading your insurance policy.



Dec 06, 2012 at 09:08 PM
GeorgeBay
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Camera Advice


Thanks all! Just curious jefferies1 you mentioned "softwear to enlarge past what would be quality out of camera" What software is this?


Dec 07, 2012 at 02:10 AM
nolaguy
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Camera Advice


Hi George, welcome.

Have a look at this thread regarding larger prints than the camera sensor will naturally support.

Also, the search function here can speed things up for you. You'll find a wealth of information (and sometimes misinformation) within Fred's site. Spend too much time here as many of us do and you'll soon discover the members who really know their craft and can be relied upon for sound guidance and critique.

I'm not one of them so you may want to ignore this reply.


Good luck and have fun as you get back into it.

Chuck



Dec 07, 2012 at 09:51 AM
GeorgeBay
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Camera Advice


Thanks to all of you for your input, at least I'm pointed in the right direction now! I Appreciate the detailed advice!


Dec 08, 2012 at 05:05 AM
GeorgeBay
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Camera Advice


As one final question to this post, are the Tamron len's considered to be as good as the CANON NIKON OME lenses?


Dec 08, 2012 at 03:30 PM
myam203
Online
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Camera Advice


Generally, Tamron and other third party lenses are considered to be not quite as good as Canon or Nikon, but there are more than a few exceptions to that and they're almost always the cheaper option. The main issue with Tamron that I've seen has been slow(er) AF speed, but I've owned their 17-50, 28-75, and 70-300 and they're all great for the money. Lately, Sigma is putting out some killer stuff as well, like their 50 1.4, 85 1.4, and new 35 1.4 lenses.


Dec 08, 2012 at 05:40 PM





FM Forums | Pro Digital Corner | Join Upload & Sell

    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username   Password    Reset password