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Archive 2012 · Making the decision - X-pro 1 or X-E1?
  
 
douglasf13
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Making the decision - X-pro 1 or X-E1?


If I must stick to your original question , then I'd go X-Pro1, because, as I've mentioned, I think the OVF is a main reason to buy into the X system. I rarely even used the EVF on my Fuji. The only thing that I don't love about the OVF is that you can't really confirm visually if the focus point focused on the right thing every time, which can occasionally cause focus errors.


Dec 04, 2012 at 05:55 PM
Jay968
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Making the decision - X-pro 1 or X-E1?


I owned both the NEX-7 and XPRO-1 for about a month each, sold both and now have an XE-1. My thoughts;
NEX-7 - nice handling, AWFUL menu system, good image quality, less than perfect white balance (poor white balance in low light), not so great high ISO capabilities.
XPRO-1 - Good menu system. good image quality in normal light, awesome in low light, best white balance of any camera I have ever owned, pretty bad EVF, decent OVF.
XE-1 - Great size, same image quality as XPRO-1, same menus as XPRO-1, better EVF than XPRO-1 (not great but useable...about the same as the NEX-7 EVF). Same white balance and low light high ISO as XPRO-1.

I am happy with my final choice (XE-1) as I like its controls, size and image quality (especially color and low light, high ISO capabilities). The final choice was based primarily on 2 things that the XE-1 as over the XPRO-1 --
1 - Its size which is much closer to the X100 than the XPRO-1.
2 - It is capable of using a wireless remote through its mic input. The XPRO-1 does not have this capability.
Otherwise I don't think you can go wrong with either Fuji. If the OVF is important, go with the XPRO-1. If small size is more important, go with the XE-1. Images will look identical. The only thing I don't like about the XE-1 is the EVF. It's slow, it doesn't respond to changes in brightness and dark very quickly, but I suppose that once you get used to it, it is perfectly useable. The camera is wonderful otherwise.



Dec 09, 2012 at 04:23 AM
Jorgen Udvang
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Making the decision - X-pro 1 or X-E1?


The logical choice is the X-E1. Apart from the lack of OVF, it offers more or less the same as the X-PRO1, and it's more compact as well as cheaper. As for image quality, my experience after one day with the camera shooting jpegs in a variety of light: It's the best crop sensor anywhere and it's good enough for me to question the need to buy a full frame DSLR, which has been on my agenda since the release of the D600 and the 6D. Add to that the superb 35mm and hopefully more superb f/1.4 glass in the near future, and this is an excellent system for slow-paced photography.

But it is a bit slow. Not terribly slow, but much slower than my GH2 that I shot in parallell with the X-E1 (X-E1 with the 35mm and the GH2 with the Zuiko 75mm f/1.8). The EVF updates more slowly and the AF is slower.

But if you want the best image quality in town, at least at this size and price, it's the winner. And no, Douglas, I don't buy your arguments about the NEX6 being better at low ISO. It isn't in any photos that I have seen, and if Fuji keeps up the good work with regards to lenses, the X-E1 will sail circles around any NEX camera, at least within the near future.



Dec 09, 2012 at 04:48 AM
justruss
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Making the decision - X-pro 1 or X-E1?


dills84 wrote:
I actually prefer the larger size of the X-Pro 1, just a matter of opinion but I like substantial feeling/balanced cameras.

If you took size/weight out of the factor which camera would you choose without price in mind?


Size/weight aside I think I would have initially gone with the X-Pro, because it was the hybrid viewfinder that first made me seriously consider a Fuji X (or any crop sensor again after 5D/5D2... which I will surely keep). But knowing what I do now about both, and having handled/shot both, I'd go with the XE even if they were the same size/weight.

Does that make sense?

If they had an XE-sized XP, with the XE EVF... then I'd go with the XP. In my opinion, the EVF in these cameras outclasses the OVF in these cameras. I'd choose the EVF. And keep in mind my professional shooting career has me using my 5Dmk2 all the time (and I've done jobs with everything from 1-series bodies to MFD on view cameras) so I know my way around nice OVFs...

For me, the main limiting factor is focus speed and hunting in low-light/backlit subjects. This camera is definitely for slow subjects, pre-focus, or MF with an old MF lens (nice focus ring).



Dec 09, 2012 at 02:29 PM
dills84
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Making the decision - X-pro 1 or X-E1?


well after discovering there was a Fuji rebate for $300 towards a lens if you bought a Xpro 1... That made the decision easy. I ended up with the Xpro 1 + 35mm + 18mm + some adapted lenses... and i couldnt be happier. with the new firmware the camera is real fast, and the AF is bearable. I'm glad I got the OVF, I can see this becoming extremely valuable street shooting, or candids.

Thaanks!







Dec 10, 2012 at 05:51 PM
mortyb
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Making the decision - X-pro 1 or X-E1?


Sweet, congrats!


Dec 10, 2012 at 05:52 PM
bimmer_man
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Making the decision - X-pro 1 or X-E1?


I am in the same situation. I am leaning towards the XE-1 with kit lens and 18mm. I have since sold all my DSLR bodies and in the process of selling the remainder of my lenses. I just don't have the time to shoot anymore so I am downsizing. I had an X100 for a week and felt the single FL too restrictive for me anyway.


Dec 14, 2012 at 11:06 AM
ceder
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Making the decision - X-pro 1 or X-E1?


For landscape, the X-E1 is better than the X-Pro1 since the X-E1 has the ability to connect a digital remote-shutter. With the X-Pro1 you have to use a cable release, slightly annoying, but no deal breaker.

The EVF on the X-E1 may be slightly better than the X-Pro1, but nothing you think about when you use it. What cripples the X-E1 is the lack of OVF, it is essential shooting against/(or in that direction) the sun. Deal-breaker for me. That is what appealed compared to NEX etc. Focus peaking? Well, for me it did not work on the NEX (unless you magnify, but then it is not needed anyho), and I think manual focus is easier on the Fuji than the NEX (comparing both native and adapted lenses).

Size, well, only you can decide (pocket/bag/in hands)...



Dec 14, 2012 at 11:25 AM
naturephoto1
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Making the decision - X-pro 1 or X-E1?


For myself I have a black X-E1 on order with a Leica R Novoflex Adapter and Novoflex Rotating Collar. But I want the camera to work with all of my legacy Leica R lenses and I have no Fuji lens on order. I will use the camera for nature, landscape, and wildlife. I will have to see how the camera fares with moving subjects.

Rich



Dec 14, 2012 at 01:26 PM
douglasf13
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Making the decision - X-pro 1 or X-E1?


naturephoto1 wrote:
For myself I have a black X-E1 on order with a Leica R Novoflex Adapter and Novoflex Rotating Collar. But I want the camera to work with all of my legacy Leica R lenses and I have no Fuji lens on order. I will use the camera for nature, landscape, and wildlife. I will have to see how the camera fares with moving subjects.

Rich


I'm a little surprised you didn't go Nex-6 (or Nex-7,) Rich, since it has peaking, a better EVF frame rate, and better low to mid ISO. The fantastic Fuji lenses are one of the main reasons to go Fuji, but I think NEX is still the way to go for alt lenses.



Dec 14, 2012 at 03:36 PM
 

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naturephoto1
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Making the decision - X-pro 1 or X-E1?


douglasf13 wrote:
I'm a little surprised you didn't go Nex-6 (or Nex-7,) Rich, since it has peaking, a better EVF frame rate, and better low to mid ISO. The fantastic Fuji lenses are one of the main reasons to go Fuji, but I think NEX is still the way to go for alt lenses.


Hi Doug,

I didn't like the handling of the NEX cameras nearly as well as the Fuji X-E1. The camera, controls and everything felt much more right to me. It felt much more like a camera especially coming from my Leica R system cameras. When we tested the camera Tuesday of this week with the Leica R Novoflex adapter for the camera, all of the R lenses worked well both in hand and on the tripod. This included working with my f2.8 24mm Elmarit, f2.8 100mm Apo Macro Elmarit, f4 70-210mm Vario Elmar, and my f4 280mm Apo Telyt lenes. As to the low ISO performance, that may or may not be the case. If the NEX performance is better at low ISO this assessment still has to be determined. As soon as we have a good and reliable RAW software program to work with the camera files that may well demonstrate to the contrary. Also, hopefully Fuji will lower the option of ISO of 100 for the camera when working in raw. The lack of the AA aliasing filter really offers tremendous possibility for the camera.

Also, even though I do and have shot wildlife for years my Leicas were the smallest cameras that I used. I would frequently work slowly and carefully working with Large Format 4" X 5" cameras as well as medium Format Mamiya 7 II rangefinder for landscape and nature work.

Rich



Dec 14, 2012 at 03:50 PM
douglasf13
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Making the decision - X-pro 1 or X-E1?


naturephoto1 wrote:
Hi Doug,

I didn't like the handling of the NEX cameras nearly as well as the Fuji X-E1. The camera, controls and everything felt much more right to me. It felt much more like a camera especially coming from my Leica R system cameras. When we tested the camera Tuesday of this week with the Leica R Novoflex adapter for the camera, all of the R lenses worked well both in hand and on the tripod. This included working with my f2.8 24mm Elmarit, f2.8 100mm Apo Macro Elmarit, f4 70-210mm Vario Elmar, and my f4 280mm Apo Telyt lenes. As
...Show more

Hi Rich,

Handling is certainly important, although I'd say that my Fuji and Sony cameras both had pluses and minuses in that regard.

The low ISO performance is inherent to the X-trans design. Joakim "TheSuede" has gone into this several times, but, essentially, the X-trans color filter layout creates chroma smoothing, which is great for high ISO, but not so much for low ISO. Even with ideal raw conversion, which we're not even close to, yet, X-trans can only attain 50% of the chroma resolution of a bayer sensor at low ISO, despite having no AA filter. It's a trade off that is great for lowlight shooters, but a questionable decision for lower ISO work. Sigma's Foveon is apparently at the opposite end of the spectrum, with Bayer somewhere in the middle.

FWIW, I have no horse in this race. I sold all of my Fuji and Sony cameras, and I'm currently only shooting Leica M. I'm just trying to help.

p.s. Fuji can't lower the base ISO of the sensor. If they did allow an ISO 100 option, it would basically just expose +1 EV and shift the histogram to the right, and it would only be useful for jpeg.


Edited on Dec 14, 2012 at 04:56 PM · View previous versions



Dec 14, 2012 at 04:54 PM
dills84
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Making the decision - X-pro 1 or X-E1?


Doug... do you work for sony? ;-)

I'll second that ergonomics and "cool factor" is why I got my xpro 1... its retro styling is inspirational and makes me want to go out and shoot. the NEX family is too futuristic for me.



Dec 14, 2012 at 04:56 PM
douglasf13
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Making the decision - X-pro 1 or X-E1?


dills84 wrote:
Doug... do you work for sony? ;-)

I'll second that ergonomics and "cool factor" is why I got my xpro 1... its retro styling is inspirational and makes me want to go out and shoot. the NEX family is too futuristic for me.


Nope, this is the Alt. forum, where users of several makes and models get together to express their opinion without getting fanboy-ish. If Rich said that he was using native lenses and loves low light work, I wouldn't have chimed in. The Fuji 35/1.4 is probably worth the price of admission itself.

I had been involved in a few threads where Rich mentioned adapting his fantastic R lenses, so I was a little surprised to see his choice.

p.s. I, too, liked the retro styling of my Fuji compared to NEX.



Dec 14, 2012 at 04:58 PM
naturephoto1
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Making the decision - X-pro 1 or X-E1?


douglasf13 wrote:
Nope, this is the Alt. forum, where users of several makes and models get together to express their opinion without getting fanboy-ish. If Rich said that he was using native lenses and loves low light work, I wouldn't have chimed in. The Fuji 35/1.4 is probably worth the price of admission itself.

I had been involved in a few threads where Rich mentioned adapting his fantastic R lenses, so I was a little surprised to see his choice.

p.s. I, too, liked the retro styling of my Fuji compared to NEX.


The Fuji X-E1 may be a stop point for me and become a second body for me, I am waiting for the FF Mirrorless cameras to be released whether it be Sony or Fuji or someone else . I will have to decide at that point to either buy the new and very expensive Leica M when it becomes available or the alternative. The better low light performance of the fuji X-E1 may prove valuable since the new Leica M I believe will only offer ISO of 6400 and we will have to see how the Leica M camera performs at all ISOs.

By the way I believe that the X-E1 offers ISO of 100 for JPEG files.

Rich



Dec 14, 2012 at 05:38 PM
douglasf13
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Making the decision - X-pro 1 or X-E1?


naturephoto1 wrote:
By the way I believe that the X-E1 offers ISO of 100 for JPEG files.

Rich


Oh yeah, you're right. It does offer extended ISO 100 for jpeg already. I forgot, because I never shot my camera in jpeg. Like with any camera with extended ISOs, it simply overexposes a stop for jpeg, but it wouldn't be useful for raw. It's just a metering trick.



Dec 14, 2012 at 05:44 PM
dills84
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Making the decision - X-pro 1 or X-E1?


buy a ND filter!


Dec 14, 2012 at 05:46 PM
flashinm
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Making the decision - X-pro 1 or X-E1?


Just to counter some points here about Fuji vs NEX:

- I have a Nex 5n and XPro
- I don't have a good way to test, but I'm pretty sure the fuji has noticeably more dynamic range at low ISO so it depends on what you mean by "better IQ at low ISO"
- Focus peaking is often not accurate enough to rely on. Especially with long telephotos or wide apertures. It's almost useless for low contrast scenes.
- Fuji 35mm is somewhat over rated. It's very good wide open at short to mid distances. Very mediocre at infinity.
- Fuji's menu system is WAY better than Sony IMO
- Sony cams feel like they're built by an electronics company. Fuji feels like they're built by photographers.

Douglas, I don't mean to be argumentative, but you keep bringing up the Chroma resolution thing. It's yet to be proven that the 50% chroma resolution advantage of the bayer array is even something that the human eye can detect, yet you keep making it out to be this huge deal.

Raw support is a big deal though. Adobe software does a poor job with fuji files, especially with fine details. Their default color profiles are not very good either. In camera RAW processing is probably the best option at the moment. Thankfully, this is implemented very well with lots of options, but you still end up with a compressed jpeg file. Capture One will add support for Fuji in the next update. I'm waiting on that to decide whether or not to keep the Xpro1.

As for the original question, I think the optical viewfinder is pretty cool, but I rarely ever use it. The frame lines are not very accurate, which somewhat limits the usefulness. Even still, I think the size of the Xpro1 is perfect and with the thumbs up it's an ergonomic dream. I might still choose it over the XE1 if I was deciding today.



Dec 14, 2012 at 07:04 PM
aleksanderpolo
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Making the decision - X-pro 1 or X-E1?


flashinm wrote:
Douglas, I don't mean to be argumentative, but you keep bringing up the Chroma resolution thing. It's yet to be proven that the 50% chroma resolution advantage of the bayer array is even something that the human eye can detect, yet you keep making it out to be this huge deal.


You can check out the samples from imaging resources to see if the difference matters to you or not, particularly telling region is the cloth swatches:

NEX6
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/sony-nex-6/FULLRES/NEX6hSLI00100NR2D.HTM

XE1
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/fuji-x-e1/FULLRES/XE1hSLI00100NR3D.HTM



Dec 14, 2012 at 07:20 PM
flashinm
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Making the decision - X-pro 1 or X-E1?


aleksanderpolo wrote:
You can check out the samples from imaging resources to see if the difference matters to you or not, particularly telling region is the cloth swatches:

NEX6
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/sony-nex-6/FULLRES/NEX6hSLI00100NR2D.HTM

XE1
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/fuji-x-e1/FULLRES/XE1hSLI00100NR3D.HTM



Nex image has more resolution across the entire frame. It has nothing to do with chroma resolution. They either did a poor job of setting up the test, or used Adobe to convert a Raw file.



Dec 14, 2012 at 07:26 PM
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