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Archive 2012 · How do you print?
  
 
Makten
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · How do you print?


15Bit wrote:
Why be confined to paper?


Exactly! Only because of historical reasons of course. I'd love to see an exhibition with images presented on large screens instead of paper.

mortyb wrote:
Personally, I mostly print shots that mean something to me...


So do I, but none of my shots "mean" anything to me. They are just images that, when they are successfully accomplished, are nice to look at. Nothing more really.
For the same reason there are no (or very few) documentary shots on my hard drive, so nothing that I can't stand losing.

Printing for the future? I wish I was that good.



Dec 04, 2012 at 03:30 PM
Jochenb
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · How do you print?


I understand your view on it Makten, but it seems to be a bitter one.
I don't want to offend you, but you sound like a depressed person.

My view on photography is the total opposite. I cherish my favorite shots and I really like prints. Always photo labs.
To me there's just something special about prints.
Having something physical makes it more special to me than having a file on a computer. I also still buy vinyl records BTW



Dec 04, 2012 at 04:10 PM
chez
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · How do you print?


I print large, 20x30 and up. When I bring my photos out to display to friends and or clients, they get that sudden impact from the large photo infront of them that just viewing the image on a screen just would not. Going to a gallery and viewing the large photos on display versus looking online at the website is a total different experience.

Not printing photos just leaves so much on the table. Prints completes my vision and the process of producing the prints is just as challenging or rewarding...not doing so would leave me wanting.



Dec 04, 2012 at 04:10 PM
mortyb
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · How do you print?


Makten wrote:
So do I, but none of my shots "mean" anything to me. They are just images that, when they are successfully accomplished, are nice to look at. Nothing more really.


I don't know if you have any other hobbies besides photography, but if you ski, hike, climb, kayak, sail, kite, travel, go on roadtrips etc. - then you'd probably make some photos that makes you feel good. Those are the ones I'm talking about, those I print.



Dec 04, 2012 at 04:49 PM
runamuck
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · How do you print?


Makten reminds me of a guy I worked with in the steel mills. He worked every hour he could, going months at a time working7 days a week, 12, 14 or 16 hours a day. His only hobbies were watching a little portable TV and his bankbooks. He died, and had no family, no friends, no church. Nothing.

The state inherited several hundred thousand dollars and he got a grave. At least Makten has a hobby that gives him some relief.

I print mostly for competition in a camera club and family stuff. I have an Epson R800 and just got an R3000 to try printing large.



Dec 04, 2012 at 06:12 PM
cogitech
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · How do you print?


Other: Walmart or Costco.

Cheap, fast, consistent, they don't "optimize" anything if I ask them nicely (I get a print that matches the JPEG I give them and, most importantly, none of my clients have ever complained.



Dec 04, 2012 at 07:49 PM
sebboh
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · How do you print?


cogitech wrote:
Cheap, fast, consistent, they don't "optimize" anything if I ask them nicely


this is always my problem with cheap prints from chain stores, they "optimize" them as if they were unprocessed ooc jpegs from a 2003 era p&s even when i tell them not to. or they do a terrible job downsizing them for smaller print sizes.



Dec 04, 2012 at 09:09 PM
cogitech
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · How do you print?


sebboh wrote:
this is always my problem with cheap prints from chain stores, they "optimize" them as if they were unprocessed ooc jpegs from a 2003 era p&s even when i tell them not to. or they do a terrible job downsizing them for smaller print sizes.


That only happened to me once, at a Walmart in Toronto. I complained (nicely) and asked them to do it again, but "just print them this time".

I showed them the results side-by-side and everyone working there agreed which ones looked better.

After that I never had a problem but I made sure to give a wink and say "just print them".

Costco have been really good so far. If they get them wrong I tell them exactly what is wrong and ask them to re-do them. It has only happened twice (once on a large order) and they made it right, free of charge (and fixed their colour profiles so everyone got better prints after that).



Dec 04, 2012 at 09:17 PM
aman74
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · How do you print?


Jman13 wrote:
Which makes the fact that he never prints all the more odd. It's one thing to require the absolute highest level of detail and cleanest noise, or the best glass when you print big prints that use all that resolution and smooth tones. It's another when the only thing you do with the images are view them on your monitor for a few minutes or downsize to the web.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the 'shoot for the moment' type philosophy, but it is odd to also be exacting on gear quality when that is your philosophy.


Why not just chalk it up to different preferences? I don't see the point of criticizing someone's preferences and going so far as to read into how this plays into someone's personality...gheez.

Anyhow, good thread.



Dec 04, 2012 at 10:05 PM
carstenw
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · How do you print?


Well, what if my preference is to say those kinds of things, then you have just criticised my preferences!!!



Martin is one of my favourite FMers and I follow his blog, and he knows that. I don't mind telling him stuff from time to time.



Dec 04, 2012 at 10:17 PM
 

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sebboh
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · How do you print?


cogitech wrote:
That only happened to me once, at a Walmart in Toronto. I complained (nicely) and asked them to do it again, but "just print them this time".

I showed them the results side-by-side and everyone working there agreed which ones looked better.

After that I never had a problem but I made sure to give a wink and say "just print them".

Costco have been really good so far. If they get them wrong I tell them exactly what is wrong and ask them to re-do them. It has only happened twice (once on a large order) and they made it right, free
...Show more

i haven't tried cosco yet. i think the problem was that some of the "technicians" didn't know that they were tweaking the photos while others did.



Dec 04, 2012 at 11:05 PM
freaklikeme
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · How do you print?


And then you run into the techs who think you'll be happier with their tweaks.


Dec 05, 2012 at 01:08 AM
douglasf13
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · How do you print?


Makten wrote:
Exactly! Only because of historical reasons of course. I'd love to see an exhibition with images presented on large screens instead of paper.


There is a whole world of contemporary art out there with photographic media displayed on LCD screens, printed on metal, projected, etc. The artist that I used to assist for would display her photography by printing onto huge transparencies a few meters wide on top of huge light boxes. I'd imagine that you'd think they look great. Granted, this type of thing is prohibitively expensive, so you need clients willing to spend a lot of money on your work before it is practical. If I remember correctly, it cost her several thousands of dollars just to get one of them made, and she'd have huge gallery shows with scores of them displayed.

Cost is a major reason why I currently stick to printing on baryta paper. If I ever got involved in the gallery world, I'd likely experiment with more output mediums. It would be pretty cool to display several LCDs at a gallery, each with a single image, but that wouldn't exactly be cheap, and I don't personally prefer the look of photographs on LCDs.



Dec 05, 2012 at 01:35 AM
Jacob D
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · How do you print?


I'm sort of a wannabe when it comes to printing.

A few years ago when my wife decided she wanted a camera Canon had a deal, with which there was an Amazon screw up involved that equated to "buy a rebel and a lens, get a free printer"... so she got her camera and I got a Pixma 9500 II.

Very decent printer, not cheap to run of course, but I don't make enough prints for that to matter to me. It's fun just learning as I go, and being in control of the whole process. Reminds me of when I used to shoot film and take it into the darkroom... but a little less fun

THEN, a friend gave me a Bienfang commercial 18x24 dry mount press. Someone gave it to him and he wasn't using it, so I own it now. Seemed like a terrible thing to waste so I have slowly been figuring that process out. One interesting aspect of unframed prints is the ability to see readily see the texture of the paper.

I was getting all set to show a few photos in a local gallery... which then closed its doors. I don't exactly live in a place known for sensibility or culture; I guess it was to be expected.

So I now mostly make prints and give them to friends. I've sold a few. People balk at paying $50 for a mounted print when the local gallery had (IMHO) some not-so-strong work hanging with much bigger price tags on it (from unknown artists).

Photo books are a fun way to use prints also. I want to make a couple coffee table books this year as gifts. I think this might be a more practical use of prints and a great way to share and enjoy them too.



Dec 07, 2012 at 03:53 PM
cogitech
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · How do you print?


freaklikeme wrote:
And then you run into the techs who think you'll be happier with their tweaks.


Yes, but if you go back and get that same tech to do a second run with no tweaks, and the results speak for themselves, the tech questions his/her training and starts to think for him/herself. That's what happened in the Walmart case for me. I was lucky. They were open-minded enough and honest enough to admit that my JPEGs were damned good enough "as is".

At Costco, it was a matter of too much red/magenta in the mix, and they readily admitted that there was something wrong.

I think too many people find it easy to dismiss the "bargain" shops due to one mistake, but my experience is that they want to make it right, and they will if you show them what is wrong.



Dec 07, 2012 at 04:05 PM
joe88
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · How do you print?


I still live on the old adage, a photo is not complete until its printed

I print mostly 13x19 on Ilford Gold Fiber Silk for both color and B&W. For lesser work and distributing family pics, I use Ilford Smooth Pearl for 8x10 or smaller. Previously I send out to the pro labs for printing (MPix and others) but unless its a large canvas print, I prefer doing it on my own now as the results are so much more satisfying, although it did take me months to obtain a suitable workflow and results.

Printing is an art form, not easy nor cheap but can be really satisfying if done correctly.



Dec 07, 2012 at 04:29 PM
freaklikeme
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · How do you print?


cogitech wrote:
Yes, but if you go back and get that same tech to do a second run with no tweaks, and the results speak for themselves, the tech questions his/her training and starts to think for him/herself. That's what happened in the Walmart case for me. I was lucky. They were open-minded enough and honest enough to admit that my JPEGs were damned good enough "as is".

At Costco, it was a matter of too much red/magenta in the mix, and they readily admitted that there was something wrong.

I think too many people find it easy to dismiss the "bargain" shops due
...Show more

Agreed, but my comment wasn't meant to be limited to just Costco and Walmart. Even the big printing houses get techs who think they know best.



Dec 07, 2012 at 04:40 PM
mh2000
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · How do you print?


You print to present your image to other people who are not glued to a computer.

When you go to a gallery/museum, prints are "real." I guess you would rather have a large LCD hung on the walls, but typically, people prefer prints.

If you only care about sharing your images on the web, then you have no need to print. If you are only going to show people images on a computer then prints don't matter, BUT if this is your final product, you can shoot with some pretty crappy gear, because, aside from pixel peeping, no one will ever see the quality of your images.

OT: After printing by different dedicated B&W systems and inkjets, I have gone to prolabs only. Home printing is a pain... it seems like it will be more convenient, but in the end, I've found that a reliable prolab was far easier than juggling inks, papers etc. When I printed Epson pigment, the clogs from hell took all joy out of printing. Yeah, I've given up "fineart" papers, but my photos look like photos and I'm happy with that.

Makten wrote:
Yeah, hit me! Of course I wrote in a harsh manner to get a discussion going. I'm sick and tired of this constant talk of that "what matters is prints". Really? How come photography matters more than most things to me, even though I don't print?




Dec 07, 2012 at 05:05 PM
mh2000
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · How do you print?


This almost begs the question, "why even bother shooting the photo?"

If you can previsualize it, why not just appreciate the photo that you could have taken or printed if you had chosen to?

Is it a camera fetish?

ricardovaste wrote:
I think your sentiments on the subject are some of the saddest (emotionally) I've read on the subjects of photography on here :-(. You almost make it sound like you hate yourself! It sounds like you get something from photography, to "please your eyes" for a given moment... But to not do anything with them after seems a little odd to meat least. I've always thought about end product, and that's never been nothing. I guess better (marginally) that you use a lens and camera, than a whole in someone's fence to satisfy something




Dec 07, 2012 at 05:11 PM
cogitech
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · How do you print?


freaklikeme wrote:
Agreed, but my comment wasn't meant to be limited to just Costco and Walmart. Even the big printing houses get techs who think they know best.


Absolutely. In fact, they are the worst because they have this chip on their shoulder like they really do know better.

This is precisely why I go to Walmart or Costco. The minimum wage worker's ego doesn't get bruised when you say "just print them" or "please do not optimize them", or "there's too much green". They just smile and say "OK". Then later they say, "Oh, ya, I like them this way." or "How do you process your photos?"

Good luck getting that response from a booteek printer!



Dec 07, 2012 at 07:57 PM
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