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Archive 2012 · Einstein's color temp seems to be off
  
 
jzucker
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p.2 #1 · Einstein's color temp seems to be off


Seriously though, I love the einstein (as I've said a bunch of times).

Doesn't mean it can't be improved though. I'm still hoping Buff will come out with a button-only commander that will work better in a sunlit environment ala the elinchrom skyport.

If not, i'll make do with the existing functionality (which I love for studio) and when it's too bright outside for the CC, it's not hard to adjust the flash power manually.

Again, it's actually ok to discuss pros and cons of the tools. It's a good thing...



Dec 02, 2012 at 02:38 PM
Peter Figen
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p.2 #2 · Einstein's color temp seems to be off


"Now granted, my photography is nowhere near my guitar playing but again, this whole notion of trying to put down someone who wants to honestly discuss the pros and cons of gear is really tired."

It funny that my guitar playing is nowhere near my photography, but yet, I still plink away every night and enjoy it. I just watched your little demo video on the Sadowsky site and you're really a great guitar player. Your tone is fantastic. The weird thing is that having spent the last thirty years photography a ton of music and musicians, is that I've never come across you. Could easily be a west coast thing and that most of the people of shot were in California or Texas.



Dec 02, 2012 at 09:26 PM
jzucker
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p.2 #3 · Einstein's color temp seems to be off


Peter Figen wrote:
"Now granted, my photography is nowhere near my guitar playing but again, this whole notion of trying to put down someone who wants to honestly discuss the pros and cons of gear is really tired."

It funny that my guitar playing is nowhere near my photography, but yet, I still plink away every night and enjoy it. I just watched your little demo video on the Sadowsky site and you're really a great guitar player. Your tone is fantastic. The weird thing is that having spent the last thirty years photography a ton of music and musicians, is that I've
...Show more

Thanks. I wish I had that sadowsky back. It was an amazing instrument. I've actually owned two and the first one had an archtop set-in neck which I thought sounded better (Roger Sadowsky will hate me for saying that). The newer ones have the low profile necks like a Les Paul. I thought the original had a more archtop style string decay than the newer ones.





Dec 02, 2012 at 09:31 PM
RustyBug
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p.2 #4 · Einstein's color temp seems to be off


Is there any chance you are using it with one of the domes on it ... which could explain either 300K or 600K of the delta depending on which dome is in use. I'd imagine (i.e. assumption) that the 5600 spec would be without any dome installed.

From the Buff site:

A frosted pyrex dome protects the lamp and tube from damage and serves to reduce UV emission from the flashtube. It equalizes the effective size and shape of the modeling lamp and flashtube as the modeling lamp filament is in exactly the same focal point as the UV-coated flashtube, resulting in an extremely close relationship between the flash and modeling light. The dome lowers the color temperature by approx. 300K. An optional UV-coated dome (sold separately) further lowers the color temperature by approximately 600K.



Dec 03, 2012 at 03:20 AM
jzucker
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p.2 #5 · Einstein's color temp seems to be off


Actually, I just re-read this and now I'm really confused because my unit seems warmer than 5600, not cooler. It'd be interesting to rent a color meter....


Dec 03, 2012 at 02:21 PM
Peter Figen
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p.2 #6 · Einstein's color temp seems to be off


"Actually, I just re-read this and now I'm really confused because my unit seems warmer than 5600, not cooler. It'd be interesting to rent a color meter.... "

Not sure what's confusing. 5000K *IS* warmer than 5600K. Remember that you're really referring to the color temperature of the light.



Dec 03, 2012 at 03:30 PM
kenyee
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p.2 #7 · Einstein's color temp seems to be off


Good catch Rusty: the dome is probably the root cause...I had forgotten about that too
The rest of the temp difference is probably variance in room colors from light bouncing around.

Best lesson for the thread is if you want color accuracy, use a whibal (individually tested before leaving the factory which is why I prefer it) or some other color reference to calibrate afterwards...and take another reference every time you adjust your lights or modifiers...




Dec 03, 2012 at 04:45 PM
jzucker
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p.2 #8 · Einstein's color temp seems to be off


do you think whibal is better than expodisc?


Dec 03, 2012 at 05:39 PM
RustyBug
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p.2 #9 · Einstein's color temp seems to be off


+1 @ room colors.

Looking at the different mods that were being used in RavisRajan' post ... I was wondering if there seemed to be a corollary to those that were tossing light into the room more so than those that projected the light more locally. Of course, the mods themselves have impact, but "loose light" can kick off the walls, particularly if your ambient / flash ratio allows some to creep in.



Dec 03, 2012 at 05:48 PM
 

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kenyee
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p.2 #10 · Einstein's color temp seems to be off


jzucker wrote:
do you think whibal is better than expodisc?


I think the expodisc is mostly for JPEG shooters (i.e., something that's done before post) whereas the whibal is for RAW shooters (to be used as part of a RAW workflow). The whibal is the only one I know of that is individually checked w/ a color meter before leaving the factory, so yes...



Dec 03, 2012 at 07:02 PM
RDKirk
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p.2 #11 · Einstein's color temp seems to be off


kenyee wrote:
I think the expodisc is mostly for JPEG shooters (i.e., something that's done before post) whereas the whibal is for RAW shooters (to be used as part of a RAW workflow). The whibal is the only one I know of that is individually checked w/ a color meter before leaving the factory, so yes...


Whibal can be used as a constant auto-white balance target. But it's better used as a target in the image for subsequent white balancing in post processing.



Dec 03, 2012 at 07:14 PM
jzucker
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p.2 #12 · Einstein's color temp seems to be off


kenyee wrote:
I think the expodisc is mostly for JPEG shooters (i.e., something that's done before post) whereas the whibal is for RAW shooters (to be used as part of a RAW workflow). The whibal is the only one I know of that is individually checked w/ a color meter before leaving the factory, so yes...


Thanks for the info. I know lots of raw shooters who use it too. Basically, they just use the eyedropper in LR or PS in the same way as you would as part of the raw workflow you're thinking of with whibal...But...I have no idea of the accuracy with the expodisc. One thing I like about expodisc is that it's teeny so it's very easy to keep in the camera bag. How small is the whibal?

I have one of these which fold up really small but it's obviously not checked with a color meter so who knows how far off it is?

http://www.amazon.com/CowboyStudio-Triangular-Collapsible-Balanced-Reflector/dp/B001TC4UIG/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1354563694&sr=8-7&keywords=grey+card



Dec 03, 2012 at 07:42 PM
hondageek
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p.2 #13 · Einstein's color temp seems to be off


I don't think you'll find many professional studio photographers, if any, that use an expodisc. The majority use a Colorchecker type target.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/465286-REG/X_Rite_MSCCC_Original_ColorChecker_Card.html



Dec 03, 2012 at 07:51 PM
jzucker
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p.2 #14 · Einstein's color temp seems to be off


hondageek wrote:
I don't think you'll find many professional studio photographers, if any, that use an expodisc. The majority use a Colorchecker type target.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/465286-REG/X_Rite_MSCCC_Original_ColorChecker_Card.html


I started using expodisc when I saw my uncle Monte Zucker using one. Also Clay Blackmore and several other prominent studio photogs use them but I think the calibrated/tested color checkers are more widely used.



Dec 03, 2012 at 08:00 PM
John Skinner
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p.2 #15 · Einstein's color temp seems to be off


hondageek wrote:
I don't think you'll find many professional studio photographers, if any, that use an expodisc. The majority use a Colorchecker type target.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/465286-REG/X_Rite_MSCCC_Original_ColorChecker_Card.html


The Color Checker Passport into your workflow and this is a non-issue.

Irregardless of the heads being used, indoors or out, your color is only as good as the weakest part of your workflow. Be it monitor, camera settings, large pieces of ONE color taking up the frame when shooting... All of that.

With producing the DNG file and applying that in your RAW conversions, Bob's yer Uncle my friend. But haggling over 100 degrees +/- and using a white disk to obtain reliable color (under any condition's) is really kinda crazy... IMHO



Dec 03, 2012 at 09:14 PM
kenyee
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p.2 #16 · Einstein's color temp seems to be off


jzucker wrote:
How small is the whibal?


I have the credit card sized one. Depends on whether you want to do white balancing at capture time...IIRC, Canon requires something big enough to cover most of the screen so you might need a bigger one. My camera only requires something big enough to put an AF cross on (but I usually do it in post anyways).

The colorchecker is also a good option...just be aware that you have to replace the cardboard target every 5 yrs or so IIRC. Not sure if I like the software it comes with though..seems to oversaturate some colors in my eyes when I compared results w/ the whibal but YMMV...

The whibal is solid colored all the way through as well..no wear issues.



Dec 03, 2012 at 09:25 PM
jzucker
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p.2 #17 · Einstein's color temp seems to be off


credit card size would be fine for me since I would just balance in in post also. thx


Dec 03, 2012 at 09:32 PM
ravisrajan
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p.2 #18 · Einstein's color temp seems to be off


RustyBug wrote:
Is there any chance you are using it with one of the domes on it ... which could explain either 300K or 600K of the delta depending on which dome is in use. I'd imagine (i.e. assumption) that the 5600 spec would be without any dome installed.

From the Buff site:



Thanks, In my testing I did use with Frosted pyrex dome, Now I can see why the color shit for bare bulb. Thanks for this info.



Dec 04, 2012 at 01:57 AM
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