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Archive 2012 · Slide copier or scanner?
  
 
timballic
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p.2 #1 · Slide copier or scanner?


Oh dear, I'm going silly, I've just bought a Rodagon 80/4 in auction for 21, I couldn't bear to see it going so cheaply when they're normally 100+! (Obviously it isn't mint, but again, at that price I can't really lose.....can I?)
Certainly interesting to compare with the Yashica 100/4

For 1:1 with the Rodagon, would you recommend that I get adapters for normal orientation or reverse?

If I get encouraging results from this set up, this is obviously the lens to search out; (Definitely used, as new its 400.)

"The Rodenstock 75mm f/4 APO-Rodgaon-D 1x is specialized for CCD cameras, macro photography, and the duplication of transparencies at a reproduction scale of around 1:1. Absolute freedom from distortion at a scale of 1:1 make this 6-element lens a professional duplication solution. "



Edited on Dec 05, 2012 at 10:55 AM · View previous versions



Dec 03, 2012 at 11:14 PM
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p.2 #2 · Slide copier or scanner?


I wouldn't reverse it myself. Usually past about 75 or 80mm reversal is meaningless and only problematic. Reversal rules with wide lenses like 24, 28 or maybe 35mm, ermm, sometimes.

I also read that the 75mm f/4 APOwas good. I've not used one myself yet tho.



Dec 05, 2012 at 10:25 AM
timballic
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p.2 #3 · Slide copier or scanner?


Two steps forward.... and one back!

Contax auto bellows, 100mm bellows lens and slide copier arrived today all in lovely condition, once I'd eased a few joints.

I do wish I'd waited to try the camera on it before buying a set of Yashica auto tubes, as all info about these bellows said the 5D wouldn't mount without an extra 13mm tube, well my 5DII does!
So now I have a set of redundant Yashica tubes. Glad I got them cheap in mint condition too, so I can resell hopefully.

However the really annoying thing is that the slide copier attachment was obviously made to work with the 60mm macro and not the 100mm bellows lens. With the 100mm the slide carrier can't be moved far enough out. It won't even work with the 80mm Rodagon I also bought. Doh.

I imagine a 55mm micro Nikkor is the next best option, with adapter or mount change. (The Zeiss 60mm macro is 400+)

I'm not sure if there is much difference between in IQ between the old F3.5 and the newer F2.8 model?

Edited on Dec 06, 2012 at 11:49 PM · View previous versions



Dec 06, 2012 at 07:51 PM
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p.2 #4 · Slide copier or scanner?


The 2.8 is much better than the older one, yes.

If it were me I would find a way to extend that bellows so that it'll work with your 100 or your 80. Remember for that slide holder part of the system to work it doesn't need to be light-tight. In fact it can be completely open! If you're getting reflections off the film use a slightly stronger lamp (flash setting), stop down a click or two, and dim the room lights. It's not the same thing as the bellows which goes between the camera and the lens - which does need to be light-tight in almost all situations.






Dec 06, 2012 at 08:03 PM
timballic
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p.2 #5 · Slide copier or scanner?


I wanted to keep it as one unit! Lies on floor beating fists! Lol

Actually the bar of the slide holder wouldn't be easy to extend, though I'll investigate further.

Seems a 60mm F4 Rodagon may be the best option at ~80, the 55mm F3.5 micro Nikkor is ~ 65, (the F2.8 is about twice as much!)



Dec 06, 2012 at 09:02 PM
rodmcwha
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p.2 #6 · Slide copier or scanner?


The Bowens wont accomodate a pro camera or one with a grip!
Scanner is a little better, but WAY!!! slower. If you are running Ice think about 5-6 minutes a scan.
I have used my nikon D3S with a beseler slide duper using portrait as the profile and gotten pretty acceptable results, (actually very close to the original slide in printing capability).
I am finally done and will be getting rid of both my coolscan v ed and the beseler, and don't imagine i will lose any money on either one, as I bought them both used. You could do the same.



Dec 06, 2012 at 09:10 PM
timballic
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p.2 #7 · Slide copier or scanner?


Just bought a 55mm F2.8 micro Nikkor, found one for 60, going cheap because of very stiff focus ring, but otherwise fine (according to seller). We'll see!

I think Nikon lens to M42 adapter + M42 lens to C/Y adapter, is the only way without a lot of effort.



Dec 06, 2012 at 10:30 PM
timballic
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p.2 #8 · Slide copier or scanner?


Things going from bad to worse!

I've now researched the 55mm micro Nikkors (should have done before buying one!) and:

It seems the one I should have got, best for close work (1:2 - 1:1) is the very early version 55mm F3.5, metal focus ring, (not sure if just the silver nose or the black nose version as well)
The later rubber focus grip (diamond then ribbed) was re-corrected for better distance focus and works best reversed for close range.

The 55mm F2.8 has floating elements so that it is best corrected for 1:2 only when it is close to fully extended, with about 35mm extension added, this means the bellows will be far too long even fully closed, (about 45mm before I add lens adapters!)
(see http://photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/006UKj)

I seem to be digging myself deeper with every move, and regretting more and more ever selling my PB-4 bellows and copier.
The design was different, so that you could move the slide holder much further away from the lens than with the Contax bellows where the slide holder unit fits to the front lens carrier instead of the rails, and has a much more limited travel.

I'm beginning to wonder if any lens but the one it was designed for, will work with the Contax copier!



Dec 07, 2012 at 05:13 AM
BFTphoto
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p.2 #9 · Slide copier or scanner?


I just bought a nikkor pc 55/3.5 to digitalize my B&W negatives, I did a bit of research before buying and from what I read they're all good, but I dont know much more, I also wanted it as a general purpose lens so it was win win. I am curious though, I have hardly any macro experience, can anyone tell me if with this lens it will fill a full frame sensor with the 35mm negative? do I need extension tubes or the likes to achieve 1:1 for that?


Dec 07, 2012 at 06:07 AM
timballic
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p.2 #10 · Slide copier or scanner?


Ben Totman wrote:
I just bought a nikkor pc 55/3.5 to digitalize my B&W negatives, I did a bit of research before buying and from what I read they're all good, but I dont know much more, I also wanted it as a general purpose lens so it was win win. I am curious though, I have hardly any macro experience, can anyone tell me if with this lens it will fill a full frame sensor with the 35mm negative? do I need extension tubes or the likes to achieve 1:1 for that?


Hi Ben, you need to get Nikon Extension ring PK-13 (27.5mm) to get you from 1:2 - 1:1, the 55mm micro nikkor's used to sell with these rings as standard.



Dec 07, 2012 at 06:37 AM
 

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timballic
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p.2 #11 · Slide copier or scanner?


Ah, these things are sent to try us! (Well me at least.)

After spending literally hours trying every lens close to 60mm that I possess, and looking up min distances/extensions for 1:1 with 55mm micro Nikkors, It looks more and more like I've bought myself a white Elephant!

The min bellows length plus adapters always comes out about 10mm too long.

I think the Bellows and Copier must have been very carefully matched to work only with the 60mm makro planars.

The Nikon PB4/PS4 arrangement allows 43-185mm movement of both bellows and copier, the Contax copier movement is very restricted in comparison.

I thought I'd cracked it by reversing the lens carrier , (a useful feature that, not on the PB4), and reverse mounting the lens, (I tried a 50mm Nikkor as the 55 is only just on it's way to me.) Doing this certainly brought the lens mount to camera mount close to the magic 37mm, but in this position the slide carrier now won't move anywhere near close enough!

I've put all this to the seller, after all, his ad did show the setup with the 100mm Yashica as if it would work like that. I'm hoping he will be reasonable and take it back. Did wonder about trying to stop the 55mm Micro Nikkor too, but such a good deal I think I'll look at it before deciding.

All in all an expensive exercise!



Dec 07, 2012 at 10:23 AM
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p.2 #12 · Slide copier or scanner?


"The min bellows length plus adapters always comes out about 10mm too long."

Instead of adapting the bellows try changing the mount so that it mounts directly onto your 5DII. Get a super cheap adapter that's uber flat, remove the C/Y mount from the bellows and use a grinder & drill to fit the EF adapter one into place. Assuming the C/Y mount isn't potted or welded onto the bellows frame it should be completely reversible and not damage either the bellows or the camera. (Just the cheap-o thin adapter will suffer.






Dec 07, 2012 at 01:40 PM
timballic
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p.2 #13 · Slide copier or scanner?


I thought of adapting mounts too, but as the rear mount adapter is only ~ 1.5mm it doesn't gain a lot for the effort.

Where the adapters stack up (ie Nikon to M42, M42 to C/Y) is on the lens mount side and here the C/Y mount throat is too small to change over without a lot of grinding out, ( I already had a look )




Dec 07, 2012 at 02:51 PM
Jacob D
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p.2 #14 · Slide copier or scanner?


Tim, sorry to hear about your exercise in frustration. I think most of us have 'been there' with one thing, or another... but if most people are like me then they'd be too frustrated to post their experience. So - thank you for posting as it will probably (hopefully!) save someone else from going down a similar path.

Let us know what you end up doing.



Dec 07, 2012 at 03:19 PM
BFTphoto
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p.2 #15 · Slide copier or scanner?


Thanks Tim, would any cheap extension tubes do the job as well? I'm trying to keep this as low cost as possible. Is the pk13 the same thing as the Nikon m2 adapter? I believe I read that that would get you to 1:1 as well.


Dec 07, 2012 at 03:24 PM
timballic
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p.2 #16 · Slide copier or scanner?


Ben Totman wrote:
Thanks Tim, would any cheap extension tubes do the job as well? I'm trying to keep this as low cost as possible. Is the pk13 the same thing as the Nikon m2 adapter? I believe I read that that would get you to 1:1 as well.


Any automatic extension ring of about 27-30mm will do, there are probably lots from HK and China on ebay, (some plastic, some metal bodied) but I wouldn't expect the PK13 to be a lot?. Obviously by "automatic", I don't mean autofocus, you can get cheap ones that keep the auto diaphragm and nothing else, that's the one you want, probably a copy of the PK13.

The M2 provides an extension of 27.5mm but does not preserve the auto stop down. This is the tube that was matched with the very first 55mm Micro-Nikkor f/3.5

Edit, Some contradictory information on the same site about the M2 ring, here it says it does allow auto aperture, so I really don't know, you'll have to Google further.
http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/nikon/nikkoresources/6070nikkor/micro/index.htm



Dec 07, 2012 at 03:33 PM
timballic
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p.2 #17 · Slide copier or scanner?


UPDATE:
The Contax Bellows are going back tomorrow for full refund. I got the 55mm F2.8 micro Nikkor but the adapter thickness with the bellows extension is just too great to allow 1:1 on the Contax Auto Bellows. (The Yashica 55mm F2.8 is also rated extremely highly and may have worked at 1:1 with the Contax bellows, but they are rare and the cheapest I located was 108, over twice what I paid for the Nikkor.)

Now I have the Micro Nikkor I will look out for the Nikon PB4/PS4 or PB5/PS5 Bellows/Copier combination at the right price.

My research in the interim has shown me that probably the cheapest and best (?) option at the outset would have been the Canon FL or FD bellows + copier with the FD 50mm F3.5 Micro. (Very hard to find a lot about this lens, but the litle I did find was that it was a winner, especially the later FD and FDn versions, (with a green "A" for AE)

Another option I looked at was the Olympus OM Auto Bellows/copier with Zuiko 80mm F4 bellows lens. Excellent reports, but more pricey than either the Nikon or Canon alternatives.

I also looked at the Novoflex Auto Bellows/copier with Noflexar 60mm F4, which is common on ebay.de for reasonable prices. However, very little info and what I could ascertain was that the lens wasn't all that brilliant and the bellows were rather short, 130mm as against Nikon's 185mm. Also the rear standard of the bellows is fixed and doesn't allow the camera to rotate.

Minolta systems are also available, but I didn't look.

At this rate, by the time I get the Nikon Bellows/copier I'll have forgotten what I wanted them for!

EDIT: I have since discovered that the Contax Auto Bellows were manufactured by Unitor and made for several makes, either rebranded or as Unitor. I've come across them in Konica, Nikon and Pentax mounts and generally cheaper than the Contax branded ones.



Dec 12, 2012 at 05:54 PM
timballic
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p.2 #18 · Slide copier or scanner?


Well, the Olympus Auto Bellows plus copier and focus rail came up, mint, for the price I expected to pay for the Nikon PB5/PS5 so I jumped on it. Like the PB5 it doesn't have the shift and tilt of the PB4 or the Contax/Unitor.

One of the reasons I like the Olympus is it's min length is only 36mm, the smallest I've found. 10mm more than this is the norm (max is also about the longest at 198mm) However, perhaps related to this, I've also read that the Olympus castings aren't as robust as the Nikon ones, so I need to be careful.

Now I need to look out for the Zuiko 80mm f4 bellows lens, specially made for 1:1 with this set up. (2 versions, the later is multi coated, so probably the one to look for with less fringing.)
One went BiN on ebay for 80 mint just last week, they usually get 200+ well used. Doh!

Lots about the Olympus OM macro system here: http://www.alanwood.net/photography/olympus/auto-bellows.html

Edited on Dec 22, 2012 at 01:47 PM · View previous versions



Dec 22, 2012 at 01:02 PM
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p.2 #19 · Slide copier or scanner?


Cool info! Thanks for updating us!



Dec 22, 2012 at 01:30 PM
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