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Archive 2012 · Zeiss retro for macro?
  
 
AmbientMike
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Zeiss retro for macro?


Use a tc and a 1:1 macro. What size sensor are you on? 2x tc on 1:1 macro on aps gets you the same as 3.2x on ff. M4/3 would be same as 4:1 on ff with this setup. I shoot a lot of macro that is one reason I like smaller sensors. Shooting a gh1 a lot recently.

I used 90 alt + 2x a lot.



Nov 26, 2012 at 02:41 PM
Gunzorro
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Zeiss retro for macro?


AhamB -- Thanks for the diagram. Wow! 4 lenses and accessories to go from infinity to 8X! A crazy, great system from an earlier time, still usable.

This demonstrates why that Canon lens was such a quietly groundbreaking solution, and with modern electronic aperture, etc. One lens with relatively long subject distance, that can provide 1X to 5X and has class leading optics too. I saw one for sale here on B&S used for something like $800, which seemed amazing. I wish I had a need for such macro work, otherwise I'd have more seriously considered buying it.

Getting to 1X and slightly beyond is pretty easy and relatively inexpensive. Beyond that, a one lens solution is pretty difficult except for the above.



Nov 26, 2012 at 02:44 PM
AmbientMike
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Zeiss retro for macro?


These look cool

http://www.novoflex.com/en/products/macro-accessories/reverse-adapter-eos-retro/

28-105 reversed might do it



Nov 26, 2012 at 02:51 PM
Gunzorro
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Zeiss retro for macro?


Mike -- That adapter is kind of funny. A person starts with one of Canon's poorer quality zoom lenses that sell used for about $125, then add a cool reverse adapter that sells for about $400. What do you end up with for $525? Not a critter I'd want to adopt.


Nov 26, 2012 at 03:06 PM
AmbientMike
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Zeiss retro for macro?


You end up with a 2.8x to 1:7 lens. Not many of those out there....

If the 28-105 isnt expensive enough, for you, put a more expensive lens on it. Novoflex is a good company, the 28-105 might perform well reversed.



Nov 26, 2012 at 03:16 PM
Sami Ruusunen
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Zeiss retro for macro?


Gunzorro wrote:
Mike -- That adapter is kind of funny. A person starts with one of Canon's poorer quality zoom lenses that sell used for about $125, then add a cool reverse adapter that sells for about $400. What do you end up with for $525? Not a critter I'd want to adopt.


Novoflex adapters are very high quality. I have many adapter solutions which are more expensive than the lenses they are used on, nothing wrong with that. You must understand that reversing a lens increases its optical qualities. Even a crap lens becomes ok when reversed.



Nov 26, 2012 at 03:31 PM
Gunzorro
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Zeiss retro for macro?


It's not really about price of the lens, other than it's funny to add an adapter that's over 3 times the lens' cost.

Sorry, the 28-105 II USM Macro and I have a bad history. It was one of those lenses I'd heard decent things about and thought it might make a good lightweight all-around lens. Unfortunately, it came close to ruining an aerial assignment I had, which was saved by the 24-70L on a second camera.

It's hard to believe the poor IQ would reverse itself by turning the lens around. Maybe at f/11 or f/16 it wouldn't be so much of an issue using just the center of the image circle?

Sami, obviously I'm coming from the other direction. Hey, if it works, it works. I know Novovflex makes some outstanding products, including rails and other technical pieces of high precision.



Nov 26, 2012 at 03:33 PM
Bifurcator
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Zeiss retro for macro?


For over 2x the Oly being discussed is one of the very best. Significantly superior!

Most non-macro lenses start to lose massive amounts of resolving power at over 2x. Most seem to max out at 2.5 to 3.5x. I find this true with reversal rings too. There are a few 100mm+ macro lenses that can get semi-decent at over 3x but even that is fairly rare. The Oly above poops out at around 6 to 8x which is just amazing! There are a few enlarger lenses that are nice at 2x to 5x too. And enlarger lenses are usually pretty cheap! The Rodagon 105mm F/5.6 is one such - and pretty amazing! I think I paid $130 for mine. I have lots of macro stuff for sale too if you're interested in buying stuff from forum members.

Also to add is that at 2x and over things sure are awfully flat tho! I mean there's like no DOF almost at all. So tripod focus stacks are very useful!




Nov 26, 2012 at 04:09 PM
AmbientMike
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Zeiss retro for macro?


Thats ok zorro i might have come on a bit strong myself.

Samis comments sound familiar. Seems like I have heard lenses can improve if reversed, as well

I believe Bif's comments are accurate as well. Could reverse Zeiss and put on bellows to get closer. At 3x might not be that hot though.

Im getting about 2x with reversed 28'some

Edited on Nov 26, 2012 at 04:37 PM · View previous versions



Nov 26, 2012 at 04:27 PM
AmbientMike
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Zeiss retro for macro?


Thanks op got my reversing rings out!


Nov 26, 2012 at 04:29 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



Gunzorro
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Zeiss retro for macro?


Thanks Mike! Yeah, me too.

Bif -- Focus stacking sounds terrific for building a better looking image.



Nov 26, 2012 at 04:57 PM
Bifurcator
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Zeiss retro for macro?


Sure, there are hundreds or thousands of examples of it here at http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/ home of the best focus stacker currently available; Zerene Stacker.

The technique is also fantastically suited to photography through a microscope.



Nov 26, 2012 at 05:59 PM
dadgummit
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Zeiss retro for macro?


You can pick up a Canon FL or FD 50mm f3.5 Macro lens and Bellows and easilly reach 3X mag. The IQ is great and you can ebay the lens and bellows for less than $200. Add a glassless FL/FD to EOS adapter for another $25 and you have an excellent Macro setup for your modern camera.

Here is a shot of the setup. The back row is the Canon FL 50mm f3.5 with bellows and optional slide/ film adapter. The built-in bellows frame is rock solid and will let you skip buying a separate macro focus rail.








Nov 26, 2012 at 08:57 PM
Dergiman
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Zeiss retro for macro?


I did a little test today with the gear that i already have. The working distance with anything shorter than 50mm is too short to light the subject. The ZE50MP is really good optically but the working distance with 68mm of extension tubes (about 1,5x magnification) is also on the short side:



The ZE100MP and Canon 90 TS-E gave more working distance but also less magnification
The ZE100MP gave a tad higher magnification with 68mm of extension tubes but the TS-E 90 was a lot better outside the center. I guess the 90 TS-E would be the lens to put on a bellows.



Dec 08, 2012 at 12:01 PM
timballic
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Zeiss retro for macro?


dadgummit wrote:
You can pick up a Canon FL or FD 50mm f3.5 Macro lens and Bellows and easilly reach 3X mag. The IQ is great and you can ebay the lens and bellows for less than $200. Add a glassless FL/FD to EOS adapter for another $25 and you have an excellent Macro setup for your modern camera.

Here is a shot of the setup. The back row is the Canon FL 50mm f3.5 with bellows and optional slide/ film adapter. The built-in bellows frame is rock solid and will let you skip buying a separate macro focus rail.

http://dadgummit.smugmug.com/Stuff/Misc/i-vPfCHBT/0/XL/JON_2990-XL.jpg



Doesn't look to me like you could mount a 5D on those FL Bellows without adding long tubes to bridge the lower sticking out bits?

Still need an EOS - FD macro spacer (about 12mm) for the FD Bellows, but they are more pricey than that, $200 for bellows alone. (ebay prices)



Dec 08, 2012 at 04:50 PM
AhamB
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Zeiss retro for macro?


timballic wrote:
Doesn't look to me like you could mount a 5D on those FL Bellows without adding long tubes to bridge the lower sticking out bits?

Still need an EOS - FD macro spacer (about 12mm) for the FD Bellows, but they are more pricey than that, $200 for bellows alone. (ebay prices)


I got the FL bellows for 90-100 euros on ebay (incl. shipping and import duties), IIRC. It mounts on a 5D with just a simple EF-FD adapter. The adapter is thick enough to provide enough clearance.
I also had someone (reversibly) replace the front with an EF mount, so that I can put any adapted lens on it.

I see the FL bellows for 79 euros + shipping BIN on ebay. International shipping is a bit expensive at 19.90 euros though.

I've read that the FD bellows are a bit sturdier, but they are a bit more expensive too, starting at 115 euros.



Dec 08, 2012 at 07:27 PM
timballic
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Zeiss retro for macro?


Seems like I should have looked at completed listings not asking buy-it-now prices.

Could have got FD Bellows + 50/3.5FD for 120 (150)!




Dec 10, 2012 at 09:46 AM
AhamB
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Zeiss retro for macro?


The price I mentioned for the FL bellows (79 euros) is a current offer -- just FYI.


Dec 10, 2012 at 11:33 AM
Bifurcator
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Zeiss retro for macro?


Yes, that's very appropriate for bellows. 80 euros ($105) or so is about right IMO for used bellows. Really anything around $150 or so for the good ones! Some makes are much cheaper tho. Pentax bellows for example go for under $50 regularly. C/Y bellows /should be/ down around there too. FD, C/Y, M42, are all antiquated mounts and there's no good reason they should be going for much more than minimum.




Dec 10, 2012 at 02:25 PM
timballic
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Zeiss retro for macro?


I should have researched prices before leaping in and paying too much! I only looked at Contax and Nikon PB4s, not Canon's.


Dec 10, 2012 at 03:07 PM
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