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Archive 2012 · Sigma 35mm f/1.4 DG HSM first impressions
  
 
Snopchenko
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p.13 #1 · Sigma 35mm f/1.4 DG HSM first impressions


The S 85 is one of my dream lenses as I find myself shooting at 85mm a lot. But so far, the S 14 has to suffice.


Nov 27, 2012 at 10:39 AM
Pixel Perfect
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p.13 #2 · Sigma 35mm f/1.4 DG HSM first impressions


curious80 wrote:
Canon and NIkon don't publish their AF protocol and third party lens makers like Sigma and Tamron reverse engineer it and thats most likely where the trouble comes in. I suspect that in the reverse engineering process some parameters have been set empirically by trial and error and they don't always work consistently enough with all the bodies when large aperture primes with shallow DOF are involved. Note that none of these problems have been reported in sigma zooms or f2.8 primes - the issues have always been with lenses like 50 1.4, 85 1.4 and 30 1.4. Sigma is
...Show more

The patent on the EF mount and it electrical communications, has now expired and I wonder if this will allow third party lens makers to improve their AF reliability they don't have to reverse engineer. This is now why Metabones can offer a adapter for Sony E mount to use newer Canon lenses with AF.



Nov 27, 2012 at 09:37 PM
asabet
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p.13 #3 · Sigma 35mm f/1.4 DG HSM first impressions


Legion5 wrote:
Wow. The bokeh look really terrible. When will these third party manufacturers learn to stop making lenses with MTF being the only consideration. I've spoken to some of Canon's reps and questioned them about their image quality standards for L glass and Canon would throw this lens design straight into the trash in 3 seconds flat.

Besides the onion bokeh, the bokeh blur is also really non gausian and harsh, almost having a sqaure falloff. No other major lens has such terrible bokeh falloff, it reminds me the old errors you saw with square bokeh falloff in older versions of Adobe
...Show more


I really dislike when people do these bokeh assasination posts. Always happens to off-brand lenses like Cosina Voigtlander and Sigma too.

The only valid ways to judge bokeh are to either A) look at tons of pictures from a lens or B) compare side by side images from two lenses shooting the same subject with the same settings. I've seen "onion skin" as bad as you've shown here from plenty of Canon lenses.

There are some more bokeh samples from the new Sigma lens at these links:

http://magazine.kakaku.com/mag/camera/id=996/

http://lcap.tistory.com/archive/20121117

http://www.petapixel.com/2012/11/15/first-batch-of-sigma-35mm-f1-4-sample-photos-released-shows-impressive-iq/

Looks to me like the bokeh is relatively neutral and pleasing. The same is shown in some of the samples in this thread.


norbelthomas wrote:
I can see the onion like bokeh on the 35L. People didn't complain about this for the past 10 years and now they criticized the same thing on S35 ?

Some initial comparison between S35 and 35L
http://www.dchome.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=1161962&extra=&page=1
( scroll down to floor 17 to see onion sample from 35L)

Nothing wrong from S35.
Better color, sharpness, IQ and CA control.
Slightly better bokeh from my point of view.


Thank you. I agree with all your conclusions from that comparison and would add less light falloff to the list.



Nov 29, 2012 at 04:00 PM
badlydrawnboy
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p.13 #4 · Sigma 35mm f/1.4 DG HSM first impressions


Has anyone done a side-by-side comparison between the 35L and the Sigma 35/1.4 yet? Any in-depth reviews of the Sigma available?


Nov 29, 2012 at 04:17 PM
Legion5
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p.13 #5 · Sigma 35mm f/1.4 DG HSM first impressions


Regarding the Sigma 85mm, they initially released a version with a deffective autofocus chip. They then released a new version with a new chip. The new version is flawless in all respects. Sigma has gotten much much better than they used to be with their focusing and I have heard no reports of the Sigma 35mm 1.4 having focusing issues.

asabet wrote:
I really dislike when people do these bokeh assasination posts. Always happens to off-brand lenses like Cosina Voigtlander and Sigma too.

The only valid ways to judge bokeh are to either A) look at tons of pictures from a lens or B) compare side by side images from two lenses shooting the same subject with the same settings. I've seen "onion skin" as bad as you've shown here from plenty of Canon lenses.

There are some more bokeh samples from the new Sigma lens at these links:

http://magazine.kakaku.com/mag/camera/id=996/

http://lcap.tistory.com/archive/20121117

http://www.petapixel.com/2012/11/15/first-batch-of-sigma-35mm-f1-4-sample-photos-released-shows-impressive-iq/

Looks to me like the bokeh is relatively neutral and pleasing. The same is shown in
...Show more

The onion Bokeh in the 35mm 1.4L is substantially less defined than the Sigma 35mm 1.4, the only 35mm lens that has anywhere around the definition on their onion bokeh the Sigma has is the Samyang, and it still has much much less overall Onion bokeh impact.

Sigma 35mm 1.4 Samples:





Canon 35mm 1.4 Samples:





Thankfully onion bokeh doesn't show up very consistently with the Sigma 35mm 1.4 because it seems to have a lower total intensity than say the Tamron 24-70mm f/2.8 IS, but it is a significant eyesore when you see it.


Regarding the square bokeh, i've been continuing to find this issue:



In general it appears that the Sigma 35mm 1.4 will only show it's faults with bokeh in intense situations, especially where there is a lot of contrast in the background or big OOF highlights, in less contrasting situations with smaller OOF highlights like the comparison posted here the Sigma does not show it's issues:

http://www.dchome.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=1161962&extra=&page=1

The color of the Sigma has also been said to have an undesirable yellow tint compared to the Canon 35mm 1.4, but I wouldn't reach any conclusions about it's color until further testing is done.

In short it's looking like this lens simply has somewhat marginal bokeh performance under difficult situations and is prone to rendering many bokeh eyesore issues. BUT this is ONLY in more exteme situations.

The one thing I am noticing is that it seems to have much much less purple fringing than the Canon 35mm 1.4.


I would also conclude that despite the added sharpness compared to the Canon version it is not a better lens because a better lens does not create eyesores.

I would have personally been much more pleased if this lens had a better tradeoff between sharpness and bokeh. Then it would have been a hands down winner and a definite instant buy.



Nov 29, 2012 at 06:34 PM
chez
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p.13 #6 · Sigma 35mm f/1.4 DG HSM first impressions


Legion5 wrote:
Regarding the Sigma 85mm, they initially released a version with a deffective autofocus chip. They then released a new version with a new chip. The new version is flawless in all respects. Sigma has gotten much much better than they used to be with their focusing and I have heard no reports of the Sigma 35mm 1.4 having focusing issues.

The onion Bokeh in the 35mm 1.4L is substantially less defined than the Sigma 35mm 1.4, the only 35mm lens that has anywhere around the definition on their onion bokeh the Sigma has is the Samyang, and it still has much
...Show more

Everyone has their needs...some like the sharpness others are bokeh anal. From a customer perspective, I know which they value more...and it is not the bokeh.



Nov 29, 2012 at 07:51 PM
jptsr1
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p.13 #7 · Sigma 35mm f/1.4 DG HSM first impressions


Never had a non photographer look at a picture of mine and comment on the bokeh.


Nov 29, 2012 at 08:11 PM
curious80
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p.13 #8 · Sigma 35mm f/1.4 DG HSM first impressions


Legion5 wrote:
Regarding the Sigma 85mm, they initially released a version with a deffective autofocus chip. They then released a new version with a new chip. The new version is flawless in all respects. Sigma has gotten much much better than they used to be with their focusing and I have heard no reports of the Sigma 35mm 1.4 having focusing issues.

The onion Bokeh in the 35mm 1.4L is substantially less defined than the Sigma 35mm 1.4, the only 35mm lens that has anywhere around the definition on their onion bokeh the Sigma has is the Samyang, and it still has much
...Show more

These are not very conclusive because of the significant differences in subject matter.



Nov 29, 2012 at 09:18 PM
asabet
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p.13 #9 · Sigma 35mm f/1.4 DG HSM first impressions


Legion5 wrote:
The onion Bokeh in the 35mm 1.4L is substantially less defined than the Sigma 35mm 1.4, the only 35mm lens that has anywhere around the definition on their onion bokeh the Sigma has is the Samyang, and it still has much much less overall Onion bokeh impact... I would have personally been much more pleased if this lens had a better tradeoff between sharpness and bokeh. Then it would have been a hands down winner and a definite instant buy.


Again, showing a bunch of uncontrolled, cherry picked examples is invalid.

curious80 wrote:
These are not very conclusive because of the significant differences in subject matter.


Exactly right.

Here is a proper comparison between 35L and the new Sigma: http://lcap.tistory.com/entry/Sigma-35mm-f14-vs-Canon-35mm-f14-L

Scroll down to the "bokeh shape" comparison, and it's clear as day that the Sigma has similar "onion bokeh impact" to the Canon.

The Sigma is sharper, has less color fringing, and has overall more pleasing bokeh to me.



Nov 29, 2012 at 09:41 PM
hiepphotog
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p.13 #10 · Sigma 35mm f/1.4 DG HSM first impressions


The whole onion ring thing has been blown out of proportion. The Sigma is just better than the Canon in every way except for maybe flare control at smaller aperture. The funny thing is in the bokeh shape comparison, the Canon actually has more pronounced onion ring bokeh.


Nov 29, 2012 at 10:08 PM
 

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keithf
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p.13 #11 · Sigma 35mm f/1.4 DG HSM first impressions


asabet wrote:
Again, showing a bunch of uncontrolled, cherry picked examples is invalid.

Exactly right.

Here is a proper comparison between 35L and the new Sigma: http://lcap.tistory.com/entry/Sigma-35mm-f14-vs-Canon-35mm-f14-L

Scroll down to the "bokeh shape" comparison, and it's clear as day that the Sigma has similar "onion bokeh impact" to the Canon.

The Sigma is sharper, has less color fringing, and has overall more pleasing bokeh to me.


Wow, there is no competition. also I like the Sigma bokeh more. I will have my Sigma for my Nikon in 2 weeks.
Thanks for the link




Nov 29, 2012 at 11:10 PM
Ghost
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p.13 #12 · Sigma 35mm f/1.4 DG HSM first impressions


badlydrawnboy wrote:
Has anyone done a side-by-side comparison between the 35L and the Sigma 35/1.4 yet? Any in-depth reviews of the Sigma available?



Came across this.

Sigma 35 vs Canon 35

IMO, the Sigma is embarrassing the 35L.



Nov 30, 2012 at 12:00 AM
Sven Jeppesen
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p.13 #13 · Sigma 35mm f/1.4 DG HSM first impressions


I'm buying the Sigma. It must be there best lens ever


Nov 30, 2012 at 09:26 AM
Hawkan
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p.13 #14 · Sigma 35mm f/1.4 DG HSM first impressions


Ghost wrote:
Came across this.

Sigma 35 vs Canon 35

IMO, the Sigma is embarrassing the 35L.


Wow. Now I almost feel bad for my almost brand new 35L which probably will have to go to make room for the Sigma...



Nov 30, 2012 at 09:58 AM
Red G8R
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p.13 #15 · Sigma 35mm f/1.4 DG HSM first impressions


keithf wrote:
Wow, there is no competition. also I like the Sigma bokeh more. I will have my Sigma for my Nikon in 2 weeks.
Thanks for the link


Keith,
Do you know when it will be released in Canada? Thanks.



Nov 30, 2012 at 02:48 PM
keithf
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p.13 #16 · Sigma 35mm f/1.4 DG HSM first impressions


They said Dec 15. The price I have is $850 + HST.


Nov 30, 2012 at 04:48 PM
kaycephoto
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p.13 #17 · Sigma 35mm f/1.4 DG HSM first impressions


Ghost wrote:
Came across this.

Sigma 35 vs Canon 35

IMO, the Sigma is embarrassing the 35L.


wow. pretty impressive stuff



Nov 30, 2012 at 05:07 PM
galenapass
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p.13 #18 · Sigma 35mm f/1.4 DG HSM first impressions


Ghost wrote:
Came across this.

Sigma 35 vs Canon 35

IMO, the Sigma is embarrassing the 35L.


Now THAT is a good comparison - although the sample size is low. I'm glad I bought the Samyang 35mm instead of the Canon 35mm. I am a fan of MF but for those times when AF will be needed it looks like he new Sigma is the way to go. I am glad Sigma is putting pricing and quality pressure on Canon. These new Canon prices are out of line IMO.



Nov 30, 2012 at 05:53 PM
Legion5
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p.13 #19 · Sigma 35mm f/1.4 DG HSM first impressions


asabet wrote:
Again, showing a bunch of uncontrolled, cherry picked examples is invalid.

Exactly right.

Here is a proper comparison between 35L and the new Sigma: http://lcap.tistory.com/entry/Sigma-35mm-f14-vs-Canon-35mm-f14-L

Scroll down to the "bokeh shape" comparison, and it's clear as day that the Sigma has similar "onion bokeh impact" to the Canon.

The Sigma is sharper, has less color fringing, and has overall more pleasing bokeh to me.


That site uses extremely high jpg compression which removes the texture from the Sigma's bokeh. It also uses comparison images that are less than ideal comparisons.

The Canon's onion bokeh has one strong set of onion bokeh rings about 1/4th of the way from the outside of the circle and then one set of strong rings 1/4 of the way from the center very few elsewhere, this isn't especially an eyesore. The Sigma has a rough texture throughout the whole OOF highlight of medium intensity with dozens of closely spaced intense onion bokeh rings.

If the jpg compression were removed and the images slightly enlarged you'd see the same thing.

Here's a clearer view of Canon's onion bokeh:







Then compare that to the Sigma's bokeh:







With that said I think I over-reacted a little initially because Sigma posted samples on their own blog from the worst photographer on the planet where every single image highlighted a flaw of the lens. It was really misleading.

After seeing a lot more samples from this lens I can conclude the following:

Canon 35mm 1.4

Pros:

- Has more consistent bokeh and it avoids creating eyesores.
- Has very pleasing distortion at closer focal distances which lead to a magical effect that makes things look miniaturized in a way when they are actually close to the lens.
- Sun stars are a nicer shape (the Sigma has a ridiculous amount of points on it's sun stars that looks unapealing)

Cons:

- Purple fringing (which is easily corrected in PS)

Sigma 35mm 1.4

Pros:

- Is noticeably sharper
- Has less coma
- Has less purple fringing
- Has noticeably rounder aperture when stopped down.
- Slower focusing (unconfirmed)
- Less pleasing Color (unconfirmed)

Cons:

- Bokeh - in around 20% of shots I've seen so far the bokeh will appear harsh and/or have some sort of eyesore issue. Note: the Canon 70-200mm f/2.8 IS II has a very similar issue in around 10% of it's shots that I've seen.
- Sun Stars
- Wave distortion that is bad for videographers and is very distracting if not corrected when there are straight lines in images.


My personal conclusion:

The Canon 35mm 1.4 is already plenty sharp, but it could use more sharpness wide open, and has a certain magic to it meaning it makes photos look better than they are by eliminating background harshness, adding pleasing distortion and generally smoothing out problem areas, literally.

The Sigma 35mm 1.4 is sharper but it has certain flaws to it and it lends eyesores to photos meaning it makes photos look worse than they are, by adding distracting distortion, distracting out of focus highlight texture, distracting sun stars, and generally making things look harsher in problem areas, literally.

Considering the Canon 35mm 1.4 is $1050 (used), and the Sigma is $900, it's a pretty tough call. The Sigma has arguably some meaningful gain, but has risk and less reward.

I would much rather have a Canon 35mm 1.4L II with all of the benefits of both rolled into one for $1800.

But I could see why one would want either.


Edited on Dec 01, 2012 at 12:20 AM · View previous versions



Nov 30, 2012 at 06:37 PM
Edward Castro
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p.13 #20 · Sigma 35mm f/1.4 DG HSM first impressions


Sigma vs Contax

Sigma vs Samyang



Nov 30, 2012 at 08:28 PM
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