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Archive 2012 · Induro really as good/the same as RRS/Markins?
  
 
braindeadmac
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p.2 #1 · Induro really as good/the same as RRS/Markins?


Sarsfield wrote:
People can justify their expensive purchases by pointing to isolated cases of user incompetence (he dropped it on concrete for God's sake) but this example is quite ridiculous. Markins, RRS and Gitzo can keep their overpriced cr@p. I would never pay what they ask for their 'non-cast' pieces of metal. Reminds me of the Apple users justifying their overpriced electronics. Sheep.


My Gitzo, Arca and RRS overpriced crap is still going strong after 10-15 years of rugged use, including falls onto concrete, boulders, streams and saltwater. Accidents happen as opposed to "incompetence". Sure, I could have paid less and replaced more. Just because you don't find it worthwhile to pay for the gear, doesn't mean there aren't those of us out there that do. I don't think I'll be trading my Gitzo legs, Arca heads, RRS heads and plates for Induro or Slik anytime soon, sorry bud. Oh yeah, we've got a Markins head too. Not quite as durable as the Arca Swiss or RRS actually, but it's holding up just fine at 10 years old. And it's been dropped.



Nov 16, 2012 at 11:44 AM
sjms
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p.2 #2 · Induro really as good/the same as RRS/Markins?


dcains wrote:
FWIW, I don't care which gear anyone buys and uses - why would I? My objection to the many tripod/ballhead threads here comes into play when someone posts that their YYY brand is as good as the XXX brand, or worse, that it's the same in every way except cost. By extension, we can only assume that all gear is exactly the same, regardless of brand, materials, manufacturing process, etc. In reality, a more reasonable assumption might be that there are actual functional differences, based on the aforementioned factors, and that informed choices are always better than blind guesses.

Who
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I collect pins from all over. that is my limit to collecting.

I use a Casio watch and only because its damned accurate. nothing more nothing less. like many things today a commoditized consumable. not the works of artisans though, but then I can wear it all the time. goes with anything I wear. I have more problems with matching my cameras with my ties and tails.



Nov 16, 2012 at 12:09 PM
sjms
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p.2 #3 · Induro really as good/the same as RRS/Markins?


in the end its all about usage. there are many products for many reasons. ultra light to "I need a crane to get this out of my car". you choice.


Nov 16, 2012 at 12:33 PM
Charles Gallo
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p.2 #4 · Induro really as good/the same as RRS/Markins?


I had to make a comment over on that thread RE Billet - yeah, that's me, NO ONE (well, almost no one) makes anything but forgings from billet. Billet is a semi processed raw product

Castings have their place, and GOOD castings can be great. IS a casting as fracture resistant as machined from stock? Probably not (there are some really odd specialty castings that are actually BETTER - mono-crystal castings). Then again, is machined from stock as strong as a forging that is then machined? Nope. You have to decide the tradeoffs and quality level you want. Die castings are way different than investment casting. Alloy X (more expensive, harder to do) will probably be stronger/more fracture resistant than Alloy Y (cheaper, faster etc)

Can you make a casting that is cheaper and BETTER than stock removal? Don't know, it is a serious research problem, but I will say, back in the 1980s, I worked for a company that was making some aircraft parts, that required SERIOUS shock and vibration testing (aka they could NOT break - it was my job to test them) - These parts had always been made from solid (aka stock removal aka 'from billet' (yeah - see my rant)). Anyway, turns out we could get them cast and then machined and they would be just as good, and oh, 25% or so cheaper, but the paperwork made it not worth the effort (BTW - look at some of the stuff that is actually cast - Pine Tree Casting is one of the BIG players in HIGH end castings - aka Ruger Firearms ). BTW, I notice they don't even LIST their big Ti castings there anymore



Nov 16, 2012 at 01:32 PM
peter_n
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p.2 #5 · Induro really as good/the same as RRS/Markins?


Yeah I'm the billet guy over in that thread. However I've had my coffee this morning...

Anyway I can't believe how people are getting their knickers in such a twist here over this. I use Gitzo, RRS and Benro (the father of Induro) crap and it all works great. Also my two crap Seiko watches work great as well. Storm in a teacup!




Nov 16, 2012 at 04:37 PM
sjms
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p.2 #6 · Induro really as good/the same as RRS/Markins?


and you seeded it . but I do like when the funny people come out.


Nov 16, 2012 at 04:43 PM
peter_n
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p.2 #7 · Induro really as good/the same as RRS/Markins?


No the OP is the sower here.




Nov 16, 2012 at 04:52 PM
BluesWest
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p.2 #8 · Induro really as good/the same as RRS/Markins?


you'll shrivel up like the empty carcass that you really are

I sometimes feel as if I'm too aggressive in some of my posts, but if this is the benchmark for bad forum behavior, I guess I'm ok...

John



Nov 16, 2012 at 06:00 PM
tuantran
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p.2 #9 · Induro really as good/the same as RRS/Markins?


There are people who actually have owned and used Gitzo/RRS/AS AND Benro/Induro and there are those who only have owned Gitzo/RRS or Benro/Induro. Can we identify who is who? It would be interesting to see who just owns Gitzo/RRS and have never owned Benro/Induro and people who owns Benro/Induro and have never owned Gitzo/RRS.

I identify myself as owning Gitzo, Benro, Bogen/Manfrotto and Slik - all carbon fiber. I use them almost all equally. The Gitzo 1325 is a little heavy so it doesn't get much use. I use the Bogen the most because of its quick release. They are all still working!

Also, isn't higher grade aluminum like 7000 series are harder and higher quality than 5000 series but are easier to snap? Just a thought.



Nov 16, 2012 at 07:44 PM
sjms
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p.2 #10 · Induro really as good/the same as RRS/Markins?


peter_n wrote:
No the OP is the sower here.



oh, I do apologize. you are correct because I failed to look to the beginning.



Nov 16, 2012 at 07:57 PM
 

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sjms
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p.2 #11 · Induro really as good/the same as RRS/Markins?


tuantran wrote:
There are people who actually have owned and used Gitzo/RRS/AS AND Benro/Induro and there are those who only have owned Gitzo/RRS or Benro/Induro. Can we identify who is who? It would be interesting to see who just owns Gitzo/RRS and have never owned Benro/Induro and people who owns Benro/Induro and have never owned Gitzo/RRS.

I identify myself as owning Gitzo, Benro, Bogen/Manfrotto and Slik - all carbon fiber. I use them almost all equally. The Gitzo 1325 is a little heavy so it doesn't get much use. I use the Bogen the most because of its quick release. They are all
...Show more

there are 8 major alloys to choose from and then there are the sub alloys of these. each has its own qualities when manufactured. most lighter series alloy carabiners are made 7000 series alloys as an example so that puts that "easier to snap" issue to rest. at least I hope as I have spent enough time hanging from them.

ref: http://www.petzl.com/en/node/9337

ref: http://rockclimbingcompany.blogspot.com/2009/09/corrosion-in-climbing-carabiners.html







Edited on Nov 16, 2012 at 08:36 PM · View previous versions



Nov 16, 2012 at 08:11 PM
acoll123
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p.2 #12 · Induro really as good/the same as RRS/Markins?


Sarsfield wrote:
People can justify their expensive purchases by pointing to isolated cases of user incompetence (he dropped it on concrete for God's sake) but this example is quite ridiculous. Markins, RRS and Gitzo can keep their overpriced cr@p. I would never pay what they ask for their 'non-cast' pieces of metal. Reminds me of the Apple users justifying their overpriced electronics. Sheep.


I think sheep are those who can be fooled into buying something because it is "almost" as good. Compromisers.



Nov 16, 2012 at 08:27 PM
tuantran
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p.2 #13 · Induro really as good/the same as RRS/Markins?


I was just saying that if you compare the cheaper 5000 series with the more expensive 7000 series, the 7000 series are easier to snap. A lot of bicycles are made with 6000 series because of the compromise between the two - cost and durability (tensile, fatigue, etc). A bicycle made with 7000 al will not necessarily lasts longer than 6000 al because you need to meet certain requirements to prevent from fatigue failure but that 7000 al bicycle will cost more than the 6000 bicycle.


Nov 16, 2012 at 09:44 PM
sjms
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p.2 #14 · Induro really as good/the same as RRS/Markins?


tuantran wrote:
I was just saying that if you compare the cheaper 5000 series with the more expensive 7000 series, the 7000 series are easier to snap. A lot of bicycles are made with 6000 series because of the compromise between the two - cost and durability (tensile, fatigue, etc). A bicycle made with 7000 al will not necessarily lasts longer than 6000 al because you need to meet certain requirements to prevent from fatigue failure but that 7000 al bicycle will cost more than the 6000 bicycle.


we can talk "in context". you used the term "snap easier" w/o said context. in technical climbing it is used extensively with great success. well as with any material it is dependent on where and how its used. and 7000 is not necessarily a "higher grade" by its designation. it is a different alloy recipe.



Nov 16, 2012 at 10:16 PM
jcw1982
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p.2 #15 · Induro really as good/the same as RRS/Markins?


But do you belive it's " as good/the same as RRS/Markins"

I'm glad you ask. For myself, yes I do.

But frankly, who cares? Choose your equipment as you see fit, and what suits your needs.



Nov 16, 2012 at 11:19 PM
tuantran
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p.2 #16 · Induro really as good/the same as RRS/Markins?


jcw1982 wrote:
I'm glad you ask. For myself, yes I do.

But frankly, who cares? Choose your equipment as you see fit, and what suits your needs.


You and I are probably in the Craftwman is good enough camp and don't need Snap-on/Mac.



Nov 16, 2012 at 11:53 PM
vsg28
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p.2 #17 · Induro really as good/the same as RRS/Markins?


Are we back to this again? This thread (and that one) is based on 1 example. I have presently (and previously) owned Gitzo, Benro, RRS and Markins. My Gitzo tripod did not last very long (GASP!) and I replaced it with an Induro (Bigger GASP!). Who cares which one is better or just as good as the other if it does the job for you? Also, I get my Induro for half the price of the RRS.

This is just like professional photographers using rebels or XXDs instead of the Canon 1DX- If you can get the job done at a lower cost, more money to you. I really don't see why this has to be different for support gear. Obviously "getting the job done" is relative, so it is up to an individual to decide what they want.



Nov 17, 2012 at 02:02 PM
3iron
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p.2 #18 · Induro really as good/the same as RRS/Markins?


Was just catching up on this thread and the thought hit me that many of you have much more equipment than I will ever have.
For many of us, we get to make the descision just once. We study and ask, then decide if we want, or can afford, the high dollar one or, have to get by with something less expensive.
When ever possivle, I get the better or what appears to be the best, but, occasionally I will buy cheap if I know I can get by and it will receive little usage.
My first tripod was a Bogen, seems still pretty good, but heavy. My second and probably last, is a fiesol; fairly inexpensive but appears as good as the very expensive ones I looked at.
I spent my bit money on camera and lenses, where I hope I will get the most bang for my dollar.
To say Wimberley is the best and Induro is no good does not put things in context. To say Wimberley is consistently perfect and Induro is inconsistant in their QC might be getting things in perspective.
We can not make descisions for the purchasor, only share our limited experience. Very few of us has tested either of the above examples to destruction.
My CB gimble is very smoothe and predictable. It is versitel and holds my 1d series camera and 600mm lens very steady. The only reason I did not buy Wimberley is it wold not break down in to a small unit and become a side mount for smaller lenses.
I just happened to have enought $$ in hand and did not want to take a chance on a Induro or something less expensive as I will be using this thing a lot and I did not want to put a high dollar lens on a cheap question mark.
We don't know what casting materials are used in either system, but I do believe Wimberley and those in that catagory care. I can't say as much for those in India or China etc.
That's my 2 $$ worth. Make your descisions on the information you can get and how you plan to use it.



Nov 17, 2012 at 03:24 PM
Glenn NK
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p.2 #19 · Induro really as good/the same as RRS/Markins?


dcains wrote:
FWIW, I don't care which gear anyone buys and uses - why would I? My objection to the many tripod/ballhead threads here comes into play when someone posts that their YYY brand is as good as the XXX brand, or worse, that it's the same in every way except cost. By extension, we can only assume that all gear is exactly the same, regardless of brand, materials, manufacturing process, etc. In reality, a more reasonable assumption might be that there are actual functional differences, based on the aforementioned factors, and that informed choices are always better than blind guesses.

Who
...Show more

Thanks for a logical, sane, non-partisan, objective, non-inflammatory post in the middle of such raving flack.

Glenn



Nov 17, 2012 at 03:54 PM
EB-1
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p.2 #20 · Induro really as good/the same as RRS/Markins?


Sarsfield wrote:
People can justify their expensive purchases by pointing to isolated cases of user incompetence (he dropped it on concrete for God's sake) but this example is quite ridiculous. Markins, RRS and Gitzo can keep their overpriced cr@p. I would never pay what they ask for their 'non-cast' pieces of metal. Reminds me of the Apple users justifying their overpriced electronics. Sheep.


Dropping a tripod is not necessarily incompetence. Stuff happens and sometimes there are more important things to consider at the moment, like whether your gear will be swept away or an animal will bite. I'm not in the photo industry, but I can tell you that many industrial products must be drop tested to certain standards because end users are expected to drop them occasionally during the course of use. It's just a consequence of being human.

FWIW, I have Arca-Swiss heads that have been dropped, scraped and mashed so many times the anodization is half gone, but never did the clamp crack off. Imapct damage I have experienced with A-S and Kirk haeds are mainly to the panning knobs and with RRS heads, the lever lock. None were catastrophic failures however.

EBH



Nov 17, 2012 at 04:05 PM
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