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Archive 2012 · Wedding Photography Boot Camp on CreativeLive now.
  
 
TheGE
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p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · Wedding Photography Boot Camp on CreativeLive now.


D. Diggler wrote:
I wonder if the TheGE hit it that he could be doing some important things very right while still doing a lot wrong.


Absolutely. Like a jet travels off course most of the way but course adjustments made along the way are significant enough to get the plane to the intended destination.

I didn't take notes yesterday as I watched some so just going off the top of my head, during the post wedding sales meeting Taylor made a point of crediting the difference between asking the couple "Do you want this album or that album?" (I paraphrase) over asking "Do you want this album or not?" for working well because it's rooted in her being the "trusted adviser."

But asking either/or questions as opposed to yes/no questions has nothing to do with trust. Asking yes/no questions doesn't lessen trust. In fact there are times to ask yes/no questions.

Asking either/or works better at the point she was at because you're asking the couple to make a choice between two items, either of which more likely results in a sale, instead of yes or no, one of which certainly does not result in a sale. When she credited "trusted adviser" as being the principle the question's success, she was incorrect. That's another example of them not understanding the "why" of how what they're doing actually works. Without understanding how this works, you can't apply it correctly. Many will now be asking those questions thinking they're building trust, and wondering why it's not effective.

When they emphasized offering alcohol at sales meetings, I thought there may be statutes in their jurisdiction that nullify any contract entered into when one of the parties is intoxicated. Certainly in many of the viewers' jurisdictions this may be the law. That means their clients could contest the sale on that basis and have it cancelled. I felt it wasn't the best idea to teach others to get their clients buzzed nor do such things that potentially undermine the sale.

Telling the couple the discounts are tied to vendors' specials which end THAT NIGHT (what a coincidence!), to create urgency, is so obvious a ploy that Sal mentioned how other clients who happen to be in sales call him on it (and others don't and so it works on those occasions). There are better ways to make urgency work than incorporating it badly.

Besides the fact you lose credibility doing this to people. So it works AGAINST them being seen as the trusted adviser.

There were more things they did but I don't recall them all at the moment.

Anyway, then there's the handful of things he does right (whether he understands correctly why they're effective or not) that create massive good results, like the course adjustments of the flight plan.

So what would you guys think they are?




Nov 10, 2012 at 06:19 PM
D. Diggler
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p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · Wedding Photography Boot Camp on CreativeLive now.


TheGE wrote:
Telling the couple the discounts are tied to vendors' specials which end THAT NIGHT (what a coincidence!), to create urgency, is so obvious a ploy that Sal mentioned how other clients who happen to be in sales call him on it


If I were a prospective client and had that sales line pulled on me, I think I'd look elsewhere just based upon the loss of credibility right there.



Nov 10, 2012 at 06:33 PM
ZachOly
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p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · Wedding Photography Boot Camp on CreativeLive now.


D. Diggler wrote:
If I were a prospective client and had that sales line pulled on me, I think I'd look elsewhere just based upon the loss of credibility right there.


So would I. He seems to have a high risk high reward sales strategy. I'd also guess he gets a lot of clients who experience buyers remorse after they leave his house. That's not the way I want to run my business, I don't care how successful I could be doing it.

On a positive note, his stuff on SEO was pretty solid. Basically make a hidden page for SEO and install Yoast if you're using wordpress.



Nov 10, 2012 at 07:53 PM
D. Diggler
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p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · Wedding Photography Boot Camp on CreativeLive now.


ZachOly wrote:
his stuff on SEO was pretty solid


Is he using social media at all, such as Facebook?



Nov 10, 2012 at 08:09 PM
amonline
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p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · Wedding Photography Boot Camp on CreativeLive now.


D. Diggler wrote:
If I were a prospective client and had that sales line pulled on me, I think I'd look elsewhere just based upon the loss of credibility right there.


If I sat in a consultation with him, I HIGHLY doubt I'd hire him. There's a reason his wife said he does not do consultations and viewings. Seriously; she is the reason they are successful.



Nov 10, 2012 at 08:38 PM
ZachOly
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p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · Wedding Photography Boot Camp on CreativeLive now.


D. Diggler wrote:
Is he using social media at all, such as Facebook?


He's using FB, but not in any unique way that I saw. He does pay FB for targeted ads to recently engaged brides. I think it costs him $1/click, which is actually a pretty good deal IMO.



Nov 10, 2012 at 09:08 PM
joelconner
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p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · Wedding Photography Boot Camp on CreativeLive now.


ZachOly wrote:
On a positive note, his stuff on SEO was pretty solid. Basically make a hidden page for SEO and install Yoast if you're using wordpress.


Actually, some of his seo advice was crap. He is all about spamming the keyword/phrase as much as possible..even to the point where the page (by his own admission) sounds ridiculous when you read it. Most of the the basics of post and image naming was good...and using a good seo wp plugin. He did not mention backlinks at all, which is a huge part of it. And actually, his rank has dropped a lot in the past few days. It shot to the top about 5 weeks ago due the spamming, but google finally wised up and is penalizing him for it. I only know because I am in the same market and am seo'ed for the same phrase.

I have learned more about seo from a few of the smarties on here than I think he did from his book :/



Nov 11, 2012 at 04:28 AM
D. Diggler
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p.4 #8 · p.4 #8 · Wedding Photography Boot Camp on CreativeLive now.


joelconner wrote:
He is all about spamming the keyword/phrase as much as possible..even to the point where the page (by his own admission) sounds ridiculous when you read it.


Sounds "high end".



Nov 11, 2012 at 04:49 AM
DavidCZ
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p.4 #9 · p.4 #9 · Wedding Photography Boot Camp on CreativeLive now.


I love his another comment "you guys are nuts if you offer a full-day coverage (without time limit)"


Nov 11, 2012 at 08:35 PM
amonline
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p.4 #10 · p.4 #10 · Wedding Photography Boot Camp on CreativeLive now.


DavidCZ wrote:
I love his another comment "you guys are nuts if you offer a full-day coverage (without time limit)"


Well, that's out of context. He did, in fact, explain that the photographer should own the timeline, if at all possible. In most photographer's opinions, they're going to agree - if it's possible. The key is education. Educate the client, based on their plans, what kind of timeline will produce the best results. This should be done right up front at the consultation. I do it, and I would guess many here do as well. Then, make sure you're getting paid for that complete block of time. I offer "full-day" coverage, but there is a premium cost when it exceeds my "full-day" definition. In a sense, he is correct about "unlimited" time. "Full-day" is generally 8 hours - just like a "work-day". It all boils down to your personal definition and understanding with the client.



Nov 11, 2012 at 08:59 PM
 

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D. Diggler
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p.4 #11 · p.4 #11 · Wedding Photography Boot Camp on CreativeLive now.


I didn't watch any of the videos. Did anyone see him talking about his post processing?


Nov 12, 2012 at 04:01 AM
Chris Langer
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p.4 #12 · p.4 #12 · Wedding Photography Boot Camp on CreativeLive now.


Seeing Sal buy or make a bunch of companies reminds me of vertical integration between one management partner like Carnegie did with steel. He controls all aspects of the business and can find many other ways of making revenue and reduce expenses. Brilliant idea and a huge investment/risk for photography. It seems to be working for them though.

I watched the majority of the workshop and I enjoyed Day 1 and Day 5 the most. I am most interested about his business practices and how he controls everything in the process. I care less about how he shoots but definitely learned a few things here and there.

I do agree with everyone about the vendor specials. I found that to be very shady and could never do that in my own business. I would just say certain % off tonight if you order, if not pay my full prices!



Nov 12, 2012 at 05:22 AM
Aremac 01
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p.4 #13 · p.4 #13 · Wedding Photography Boot Camp on CreativeLive now.


Haha... haven't seen this many sour grapes since J Star's CreativeLive workshop. So entertaining.


Nov 12, 2012 at 02:46 PM
joelconner
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p.4 #14 · p.4 #14 · Wedding Photography Boot Camp on CreativeLive now.


Aremac 01 wrote:
Haha... haven't seen this many sour grapes since J Star's CreativeLive workshop. So entertaining.


Really? Granted I am. In the mix of this, but it seems a pretty balanced and fair critique of his practices to me... No one is just bashing because he is annoying (like any seem to do for j*)



Nov 12, 2012 at 03:49 PM
joelconner
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p.4 #15 · p.4 #15 · Wedding Photography Boot Camp on CreativeLive now.


As someone. In direct competition with him, I have no interest in "beating" him, per se. He has his biz and we have ours. I am glad that he is expensive and successful, because the more people we have at that level, the easier it becomes for others to charge what they need to for s proper living. I am interested, though, in picking up some things about how I can improve my biz. There are things I like about what he does and things that I do not like. Too many peels can take successful people's word as law, so it is helpful to have discussions looking at it from different perspectives.


Nov 12, 2012 at 03:57 PM
TTLKurtis
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p.4 #16 · p.4 #16 · Wedding Photography Boot Camp on CreativeLive now.


amonline wrote:
I'll be honest. I've tried to watch this a few times during the last few days. I can't take more than about 15 minutes of him. He's too arrogant and rude to be a teacher. And, as a few have mentioned, there's not much really making an impact on me. This is for novices IMO.

Funny story though... I cruised the calendar to see what was coming up and saw Sue Bryce had a shoot in a couple of weeks. I went to her website and clicked on before & afters. The literal words out of my mouth were, "holy $#!+".
...Show more

Wow. Holy flaming poop batman. Sue Bryce is legit.



Nov 12, 2012 at 04:07 PM
TTLKurtis
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p.4 #17 · p.4 #17 · Wedding Photography Boot Camp on CreativeLive now.


I couldn't look at Sal's website for more than a minute and the actual photos was less than 20 seconds. Mostly was reading the terrible SEO garbage. This guy is a joke.


Nov 12, 2012 at 04:30 PM
StephanieTo
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p.4 #18 · p.4 #18 · Wedding Photography Boot Camp on CreativeLive now.


True that more people = more purchase. I'm guessing the most purchased during live broadcast was Sue Bryce, and Sue didn't have any extra thing she was plugging that she would profit on directly. Sal is not just selling this course, he had people buying his LR presets, his album templates, and his acrylics from this broadcast. He probably made off like a bandit.

I seem to recall another photographer saying they would do wine and cheese with their consultation. Wouldn't be the first to serve alcohol with their sales I guess.



Nov 13, 2012 at 12:37 AM
Curtiss Bryant
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p.4 #19 · p.4 #19 · Wedding Photography Boot Camp on CreativeLive now.


While creative live is an awesome educational tool, most of the instructors are doing it for the pay day. We are starting to see more plugs during the workshops (in this case his editing company and album/print company). I read that they typically pay the instructors more for the 3 days (in this case 5 days) than they make in the entire year. Its reasonable to think that Sal made close to a million dollars off this workshop, which is why is he so eager to keep coming back.

That said there is some good information in there if you can weed out the stuff that doesnt apply to you. His pricing structure makes sense, although I dont agree with falsely blaming the album company as the reason they have to order that day. But as we are seeing its more and more about the experience and connection with the photographers than it is about the images. Certainly, there are waaayyy more talented people in this forum image wise, but I would argue that most arent as successful on the business side. There is a reason he averages pretty high numbers for his weddings. I imagine most of his brides (and most of his grooms) enjoy him and how outgoing he is. If not, they can choose Taylor to shoot the wedding instead.



Nov 13, 2012 at 03:11 PM
sic0048
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p.4 #20 · p.4 #20 · Wedding Photography Boot Camp on CreativeLive now.


I watched the seminar and ended it buying it. I'm fairly new to the game and his business advice is certainly worth the $149 I paid. Obviously you have to take the entire things with a grain of salt and certainly everything he said isn't going to work exactly as he stated. But most of us probably are better photographers than we are business people. Sal is probably the opposite and therefore has a lot to offer IMHO with regards to the business side.


Nov 13, 2012 at 06:07 PM
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