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Archive 2012 · RE: Yesterday's Thread - eBay Canon 5DIII for $2,600 - Wa...
  
 
mmurph
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p.1 #1 · RE: Yesterday's Thread - eBay Canon 5DIII for $2,600 - Was Bogus!


Some of you may recall that I "bought" one of the 12 Canon 5DIII cameras that was available on eBay last night.

They were offered for $2,600 through a seller that previously had only sold plumbing/hoses, etc.

I just receved an e-mail from eBay that the sale was cancelled. As we expected, the account was hijacked:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

We're writing to let you know that the following listing was removed and the item is no longer available:

130340021202 - New CANON EOS 5D MARK III , Brand New, In Box, Original !

The listing was removed because the item appears to have been listed without the account holder's permission. At this time, we're restoring the account to its original owner. You're no longer obligated to pay for the item
.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Caveat Emptor!

Best,
Michael



Oct 10, 2012 at 05:29 PM
vsg28
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p.1 #2 · RE: Yesterday's Thread - eBay Canon 5DIII for $2,600 - Was Bogus!


Oh those poor other 11 guys

Hope they also used a CC.



Oct 10, 2012 at 05:30 PM
mmurph
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p.1 #3 · RE: Yesterday's Thread - eBay Canon 5DIII for $2,600 - Was Bogus!


I don't know that the hacker ever received anything.

After I "bought" the camera, I went through checkout.

I didn't have a PayPal account attached to my eBay account, so it might have been different for others. But at checkout, it told me to "Contact the seller to pay with credit card", which I think is the sellers standard "boilerplate."

I also received an invoice from the "real" seller, with his name, phone number, and addreess, all of which matched the information on his external (to eBay) web site.

I am going to call him now and talk to him, and let him know that we suspected that it was hijacked. Hopefully no-one else was contacted by the scammer to make a payment. I was not.

Best,
Michael



Oct 10, 2012 at 05:34 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.1 #4 · RE: Yesterday's Thread - eBay Canon 5DIII for $2,600 - Was Bogus!


That is why I monitor these threads with eBay "links" and delete them when I see appropriate.


Oct 10, 2012 at 05:49 PM
mmurph
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p.1 #5 · RE: Yesterday's Thread - eBay Canon 5DIII for $2,600 - Was Bogus!


Fred Miranda wrote:
That is why I monitor these threads with eBay "links" and delete them when I see appropriate.


Thanks Fred!

I have to say that you do a great job here! I really appreciate your moderation style, and your presence here commenting too.

I have seem many forums come and go. And like others here, I have abandonded many forums in the past when they became too amateurish, negative, or "noisy," for want of a better word.

FM is a great place. I hope it is - and remains - a worthwhile endeavor for you! Many thanks.

Cheers,
Michael



Oct 10, 2012 at 05:57 PM
Wahoowa
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p.1 #6 · RE: Yesterday's Thread - eBay Canon 5DIII for $2,600 - Was Bogus!


vsg28 wrote:
Oh those poor other 11 guys

Hope they also used a CC.


Exactly what I expected and mentioned in the yesterday thread--the seller's account was hacked.

Unfortunately, in the listing, it required direct bank transfer. So, those who paid likely won't see their money again. $2,600 is a lot of money.



Oct 10, 2012 at 05:59 PM
mmurph
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p.1 #7 · RE: Yesterday's Thread - eBay Canon 5DIII for $2,600 - Was Bogus!


I just got an e-mail from the scammer with the bank account info for the wire.

Luckily the real seller had his own default phone number, address, and email address at the bottom of his automated invoice. I just called and talked with him.

He also caught it quickly, and cancelled the auction before the scammers sent this:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Transfer the funds to the designated account listed below.


eBay confirmed payment Bank Details:

Account Owner: Antal Elie
Owner Address: 33 Fairholme Road

Owner City: Harrow , Middlesex
Owner Zip: HA1 2TL
Owner Country: United Kingdom
Bank Name: Barclays Bank PLC
Bank Address: 73 Russell Square
Bank City: Bloomsbury, London
Bank Zip: WC1B 5BA
Bank Country: United Kingdom

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

SOB's. And a good learning experience for us all, as buyers and sellers.

Best,
Michael



Oct 10, 2012 at 06:12 PM
Wahoowa
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p.1 #8 · RE: Yesterday's Thread - eBay Canon 5DIII for $2,600 - Was Bogus!


mmurph wrote:
I just got an e-mail from the scammer with the bank account info for the wire.

Luckily the real seller had his own default phone number, address, and email address at the bottom of his automated invoice. I just called and talked with him.

He also caught it quickly, and cancelled the auction before the scammers sent this:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Transfer the funds to the designated account listed below.


eBay confirmed payment Bank Details:

Account Owner: Antal Elie
Owner Address: 33 Fairholme Road

Owner City: Harrow , Middlesex
Owner Zip: HA1 2TL
Owner Country: United Kingdom
Bank Name: Barclays Bank PLC
Bank Address: 73 Russell
...Show more

I kinda wish that Fred didn't delete the original thread. By the time he deleted it, the listing already ended. The discussion at the time can deem helpful for future reference.

Michael, if possible, you might want to keep in touch with the seller to see if any buyer did make a bank transfer and so the seller can provide the info you got to help them try to get their money back. You could help a lot of people there.



Oct 10, 2012 at 06:27 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.1 #9 · RE: Yesterday's Thread - eBay Canon 5DIII for $2,600 - Was Bogus!


Wahoowa wrote:
I kinda wish that Fred didn't delete the original thread. By the time he deleted it, the listing already ended. The discussion at the time can deem helpful for future reference.

Michael, if possible, you might want to keep in touch with the seller to see if any buyer did make a bank transfer and so the seller can provide the info you got to help them try to get their money back. You could help a lot of people there.


When the thread was removed, the eBay sale was still active.



Oct 10, 2012 at 06:51 PM
mmurph
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p.1 #10 · RE: Yesterday's Thread - eBay Canon 5DIII for $2,600 - Was Bogus!


I don't think it was a bad call Fred.

After the link was posted, it was immediately reported to you/moderators. Someone thought it was the eBay seller that posted the link.

We discussed it here, and we came to the conclusion that the sale was a scam.

But there was still a danger that someone would not see that discussion, and would try to buy the camera "seriously." (I was pretty aware it was a scam when I "bought" one.)

Best,
Michael



Oct 10, 2012 at 07:03 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



mmurph
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p.1 #11 · RE: Yesterday's Thread - eBay Canon 5DIII for $2,600 - Was Bogus!


Wahoowa wrote:
Michael, if possible, you might want to keep in touch with the seller to see if any buyer did make a bank transfer and so the seller can provide the info you got to help them try to get their money back. You could help a lot of people there.


I offered to do anything that I could to help. I even offered to "pretend" to send the $2,600 to encourage more communication from the scammer.

I was going to call the bank and warn them about fraud connected with that account. Unfortunately, the business day was over by the time the scammer sent that account info. That might be something that the scammers counted on to give them time to withdraw any funds.

eBay sometimes only does the "easy" part of shutting down a sale. Although they say that they police the site, they are not always as aggressive as buyers and sellers could hope. It is still possible to lose money through their site.

Best,
Michael




Oct 10, 2012 at 07:08 PM
Wahoowa
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p.1 #12 · RE: Yesterday's Thread - eBay Canon 5DIII for $2,600 - Was Bogus!


mmurph wrote:
But there was still a danger that someone would not see that discussion, and would try to buy the camera "seriously." (I was pretty aware it was a scam when I "bought" one.)


I recall that, even though the listing was active at the time, all 12 were sold while we still had some ongoing discussions. (I was even about to post another link to another eBay listing that had the exact same description, which I believe the scammer copied from.) So, I don't think it really mattered regarding someone would make a purchase by the time the thread was removed. But I agree on your assessment that someone might not read through. That's why, when only 2 were sold, I urged the original poster to revise the title and the original post, but I believe he was upset and left.

Anyway, all is good now, I guess.


mmurph wrote:
eBay sometimes only does the "easy" part of shutting down a sale. Although they say that they police the site, they are not always as aggressive as buyers and sellers could hope. It is still possible to lose money through their site.


This is the part that I hate. eBay can just delete the transaction, pretend it never happened and leave the poor buyers in the dark.



Oct 10, 2012 at 07:36 PM
mmurph
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p.1 #13 · RE: Yesterday's Thread - eBay Canon 5DIII for $2,600 - Was Bogus!


Wahoowa wrote:
I recall that, even though the listing was active at the time, all 12 were sold while we still had some ongoing discussions.


I think you are correct. I can understand, though, how Fred may have been concerned with the risks after the thread was reported, and probably didn't have the time to be as involved in minute-by-minute details as we were.



This is the part that I hate. eBay can just delete the transaction, pretend it never happened and leave the poor buyers in the dark.


I would go so far to say that both eBay and PayPal come close to being complicit in fraud, in many cases, because they don't fully police their site, but still try to maintain a reputation as a "safe" site and downplay fraud.

As a specific example, eBay Motors promises that "You are protected for up to $50,000 on this transaction" on a boat for sale, right in the heading.

But when I made a claim, I was told that guarentee only applies to boats that are less than 7 years old - so sorry, you are not covered, case closed in 2 hours!!

Yet year of the boat is one of the criteria fields - "1991" - at the top of the listing. That amounts to at least a negligent, and possibly fradulent claim on their part - that I was protected to $50,000! They could easily not advertise that "protection" if the year of the boat is older than 2005, for example. (OR: "Current Year - 7 > Manufacture Year", which is right in the Vin too.) Because there **was** no $50K protection!

PayPal is even worse, in terms of arbitrary and meaningless decision making, with no recourse, and no concern for customer service.

In the same case above, they closed the claim before I even submitted eveidence. It was only through my credit card company (Chase - thank you!) that I was able to recover $6,000+ taken through fraud. I would be happy to see a class action lawsuit against them (can you say RICO?)

I say this as someone with an MBA, who worked in Finance for 16 years, and helped start an automotive lender as a VP. I also have a 6 Sigma Black Belt - process is everything!

Cheers!

Michael




Oct 10, 2012 at 08:04 PM
mmurph
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p.1 #14 · RE: Yesterday's Thread - eBay Canon 5DIII for $2,600 - Was Bogus!


Wahoowa wrote:
Michael, if possible, you might want to keep in touch with the seller to see if any buyer did make a bank transfer


I both called and e-mailed Barclay's to let them know that the account above was connected to criminal activity.

They were not particularly concerned. They kept trying to understand if I was the account owner.

I suggested at the least that their fraud department monitor the account, and try to determine whether the account was hijacked on their end.

Bureacracy, and "petty tyrants", as Carlos Cateneda called them.



Oct 10, 2012 at 08:11 PM
PetKal
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p.1 #15 · RE: Yesterday's Thread - eBay Canon 5DIII for $2,600 - Was Bogus!


If it walks like a duck........etc., it's a duck.

My own eBay litmust test:

(1) Bank $ transfer required as payment, or
(2) Wants payment details to be sorted out thru email, or
(3) Dissimilar products sold in the past, or
(4) Stock or stolen product photos in the auction ad.

Only one of the above tests being positive is sufficient for scam determination: 99.9999% foolproof.



Oct 10, 2012 at 08:34 PM
M Lucca
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p.1 #16 · RE: Yesterday's Thread - eBay Canon 5DIII for $2,600 - Was Bogus!


^ Thanks for the tip Prof. PetKal.


Oct 10, 2012 at 08:45 PM
PetKal
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p.1 #17 · RE: Yesterday's Thread - eBay Canon 5DIII for $2,600 - Was Bogus!


Scams can take different forms.....many such shady "free enterprisers" have found eBay to be a nurturing and profitable business environment.


Oct 11, 2012 at 04:09 AM
arnold1
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p.1 #18 · RE: Yesterday's Thread - eBay Canon 5DIII for $2,600 - Was Bogus!


It appears that they have a listing on eBay again! This time they are asking for $2699.


Oct 11, 2012 at 04:30 AM
sirimiri
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p.1 #19 · RE: Yesterday's Thread - eBay Canon 5DIII for $2,600 - Was Bogus!


mmurph wrote:
PayPal is even worse...I would be happy to see a class action lawsuit against them (can you say RICO?)


Unless I'm mistaken, both E-Bay and PayPal have sent recent notices about binding arbitration clauses and agreements not to seek class-action status for any "legal tussles".



Oct 11, 2012 at 07:49 AM
Ian.Dobinson
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p.1 #20 · RE: Yesterday's Thread - eBay Canon 5DIII for $2,600 - Was Bogus!




PayPal is even worse, in terms of arbitrary and meaningless decision making, with no recourse, and no concern for customer service.


Yep , having been shafted by PayPal both ways I have vowed never to use them again.

As a buyer I never received an item . I filed a claim which was closed as soon as the 'seller' offered 'proof of posting' . They never even bothered to check that the 'proof' was not valid . After a ton of emails that they never really bother with I just gave up and said it wasn't worth it for the 50 the item cost me.

But then as a seller I sold a car stereo. Sent via the mail. Had proof of post receipt. Guy claimed package did not contain stereo . PayPal withheld the money and notified me of the dispute. Total bull . I disputed the case of course . It was closed the next day in the buyers favour, and PayPal would not enter into any discussion on the closed case.

It almost seems that PayPal toss a coin and decide there and then.

Never again . It's now cash in person or I don't buy/sell . And I just don't bother with eBay unless I really have to . (I won't ever sell on there again, by the time you've gone thru the hassle and paid all the fees you may as well have not bothered)



Oct 11, 2012 at 10:26 AM
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