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Lisa_Holloway
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p.5 #1 · Slow forum? Less people posting? WHY?


While there are a few people who seem to 'get off' on being jerks, for the sole purpose of being jerks (and coincidentally either never post any of their own work OR their own work flat out stinks), I do think most of the people who give CC are trying to be helpful. It's sad that a few bad apples can ruin a place.


Oct 10, 2012 at 02:39 PM
benee
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p.5 #2 · Slow forum? Less people posting? WHY?


zalmyb wrote:
Josh Evilsizor wrote:

I see way more posts about how nasty comments get than actual nasty comments. It seems to be very very rare (especially on the people board).

Someone mentioned earlier than he couldn't understand why someone would post weekend snaps of their kids here (which is something I do quite a it). I'm not entirely sure I get why. As a parent who is into photography, a large majority of his photography will be capturing his kids childhood ( and beyond). Wouldn't this be the perfect place to post sets to get feedback on how to do that better? I've gotten some really good (and sometimes a bit harsh, though it was deserved) feedback here. Of course I'd like to get more, as would most, but I'm not the first to comment on others sets either (I try to post what I would consider helpful comments and very often I don't know enough about the type of photography to do that). )


+1 I've really benefitted from crit here, and (despite its faults) still find FM to be one of the most knowledgable, helpful places on the interwebs.

I DO wish there was a separate forum for nudes/NSFW.


Oct 10, 2012 at 02:53 PM
Robin Usagani
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p.5 #3 · Slow forum? Less people posting? WHY?


benee wrote:
I DO wish there was a separate forum for nudes/NSFW.

YES! I am usually on here while at work. Most of the photos here are too sexy even all covered up. I usually dont click threads with very vague description.
Oct 10, 2012 at 03:01 PM
Steady Hand
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p.5 #4 · Slow forum? Less people posting? WHY?


Lisa_Holloway wrote:
While there are a few people who seem to 'get off' on being jerks, for the sole purpose of being jerks (and coincidentally either never post any of their own work OR their own work flat out stinks), I do think most of the people who give CC are trying to be helpful. It's sad that a few bad apples can ruin a place.

+1


Oct 10, 2012 at 04:04 PM
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p.5 #5 · Slow forum? Less people posting? WHY?


Lisa_Holloway wrote:
It's sad that a few bad apples can ruin a place.
One of the big things that determines how well a group will survive over the long term is if (and how) they are able to deal with, or dispose of, those bad apples. If the degenerates are allowed to reach critical mass, and it doesn't take that many, then it's done.


Oct 10, 2012 at 05:19 PM
KABeach
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p.5 #6 · Slow forum? Less people posting? WHY?


Once upon a time I was a regular poster here...

I stopped posted a couple of years ago when I picked up a stalker from this form... While getting flamed and insulted on an internet forum doesn't bother me much, when it happens in meatspace, that's a different story.

While I still stop by occasionally to read, I haven't had a compelling reason to post again on a regular basis...
Oct 10, 2012 at 05:52 PM
penpro
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p.5 #7 · Slow forum? Less people posting? WHY?


Moderators are the answer.


Oct 10, 2012 at 07:08 PM
Jon Uhler
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p.5 #8 · Slow forum? Less people posting? WHY?


Steady Hand wrote:
Sodonn wrote:
I post here occasionaly, lurk here alot to admire the work, get inspiration, etc. I get very discouraged from posting because of the negativity on the forum, particularly on the wedding photography section. The wedding section seems to be very clique'ish. I've watched some folks criticize one persons work and praise others for doing the same thing. The work both in this section and the wedding section is amazing. Out of all my years participating in various artistic forums, I've never seen such bickering between creative folks as I've seen here. Not affraid to post, just don't care to read through some of the comments.



I have seen much the same and felt the same too.

Thanks for adding your POV to this discussion.


This is my feeling as well.

You can almost predict the replies that certain people get on here. You can also always predict the number of replies your post will get because you are not "one" of those people.

Such is life. It happens and people tend to find other ways to get the CC they want. For instance, I am part of a group over on POTN that talks and CC's just about every day. So...go find a place where you are "one" of those people....


Oct 10, 2012 at 07:36 PM
Steady Hand
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p.5 #9 · Slow forum? Less people posting? WHY?


Jon Uhler wrote:
Steady Hand wrote:
Sodonn wrote:
I post here occasionaly, lurk here alot to admire the work, get inspiration, etc. I get very discouraged from posting because of the negativity on the forum, particularly on the wedding photography section. The wedding section seems to be very clique'ish. I've watched some folks criticize one persons work and praise others for doing the same thing. The work both in this section and the wedding section is amazing. Out of all my years participating in various artistic forums, I've never seen such bickering between creative folks as I've seen here. Not affraid to post, just don't care to read through some of the comments.



I have seen much the same and felt the same too.

Thanks for adding your POV to this discussion.

This is my feeling as well.

You can almost predict the replies that certain people get on here. You can also always predict the number of replies your post will get because you are not "one" of those people.

Such is life. It happens and people tend to find other ways to get the CC they want. For instance, I am part of a group over on POTN that talks and CC's just about every day. So...go find a place where you are "one" of those people....

I understand your POV, but I don't share it.

I think cliques can naturally form in any community, with some being beneficial to a few, but often perceived negatively by the masses.

But, I don't think finding another clique is the best thing to do (for anyone).

Rather, I think it is best to foster a sense that anyone CAN participate in any discussion and anyone can post their photos (newbies or even people who take what some are calling "snapshots") in a general (rather open) "people" (as a subject) forum like this.

So, I think it is better when people do contribute their photos (of any experience level) and that it is BEST when everyone knows that posting comments and offering help are part of the "reason" for being in the community. Photos and comments are BOTH valuable to a forum like this, and I believe that anyone should feel comfortable contributing them here, and that to make THAT happen, the community should foster contributions of ALL levels of skill, encourage comments and discussions and even critiques when requested, and moderate (or be moderated) to make sure that people are not harassed or belittled or hounded or treated rudely.

And I also feel that one does not have to be a "professional" to offer comments that I would find helpful in my work as a photographer or artist.

When a stranger tells me that a photo I made moves them or touched them emotionally, that means a lot to me, and I find it very valuable to know. I don't care if they have a doctorate in graphics or art or engineering or if they never got a degree. What is important (to me) is that they image connected to someone in some way.





Oct 10, 2012 at 07:54 PM
Jon Uhler
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p.5 #10 · Slow forum? Less people posting? WHY?


Steady Hand wrote:
Jon Uhler wrote:
Steady Hand wrote:
Sodonn wrote:
I post here occasionaly, lurk here alot to admire the work, get inspiration, etc. I get very discouraged from posting because of the negativity on the forum, particularly on the wedding photography section. The wedding section seems to be very clique'ish. I've watched some folks criticize one persons work and praise others for doing the same thing. The work both in this section and the wedding section is amazing. Out of all my years participating in various artistic forums, I've never seen such bickering between creative folks as I've seen here. Not affraid to post, just don't care to read through some of the comments.



I have seen much the same and felt the same too.

Thanks for adding your POV to this discussion.

This is my feeling as well.

You can almost predict the replies that certain people get on here. You can also always predict the number of replies your post will get because you are not "one" of those people.

Such is life. It happens and people tend to find other ways to get the CC they want. For instance, I am part of a group over on POTN that talks and CC's just about every day. So...go find a place where you are "one" of those people....

I understand your POV, but I don't share it.

I think cliques can naturally form in any community, with some being beneficial to a few, but often perceived negatively by the masses.

But, I don't think finding another clique is the best thing to do (for anyone).

Rather, I think it is best to foster a sense that anyone CAN participate in any discussion and anyone can post their photos (newbies or even people who take what some are calling "snapshots") in a general (rather open) "people" (as a subject) forum like this.

So, I think it is better when people do contribute their photos (of any experience level) and that it is BEST when everyone knows that posting comments and offering help are part of the "reason" for being in the community. Photos and comments are BOTH valuable to a forum like this, and I believe that anyone should feel comfortable contributing them here, and that to make THAT happen, the community should foster contributions of ALL levels of skill, encourage comments and discussions and even critiques when requested, and moderate (or be moderated) to make sure that people are not harassed or belittled or hounded or treated rudely.

And I also feel that one does not have to be a "professional" to offer comments that I would find helpful in my work as a photographer or artist.

When a stranger tells me that a photo I made moves them or touched them emotionally, that means a lot to me, and I find it very valuable to know. I don't care if they have a doctorate in graphics or art or engineering or if they never got a degree. What is important (to me) is that they image connected to someone in some way.





I agree with most of what you are saying. I guess what I was trying to say is go find the place where people actually respond. I am sure some people on here also hang out on POTN and get no love there either. So who knows the ryhme or reason.


Oct 10, 2012 at 08:01 PM
 



Steady Hand
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p.5 #11 · Slow forum? Less people posting? WHY?


Jon Uhler wrote:
Steady Hand wrote:
Jon Uhler wrote:
Steady Hand wrote:
Sodonn wrote:
I post here occasionaly, lurk here alot to admire the work, get inspiration, etc. I get very discouraged from posting because of the negativity on the forum, particularly on the wedding photography section. The wedding section seems to be very clique'ish. I've watched some folks criticize one persons work and praise others for doing the same thing. The work both in this section and the wedding section is amazing. Out of all my years participating in various artistic forums, I've never seen such bickering between creative folks as I've seen here. Not affraid to post, just don't care to read through some of the comments.



I have seen much the same and felt the same too.

Thanks for adding your POV to this discussion.

This is my feeling as well.

You can almost predict the replies that certain people get on here. You can also always predict the number of replies your post will get because you are not "one" of those people.

Such is life. It happens and people tend to find other ways to get the CC they want. For instance, I am part of a group over on POTN that talks and CC's just about every day. So...go find a place where you are "one" of those people....

I understand your POV, but I don't share it.

I think cliques can naturally form in any community, with some being beneficial to a few, but often perceived negatively by the masses.

But, I don't think finding another clique is the best thing to do (for anyone).

Rather, I think it is best to foster a sense that anyone CAN participate in any discussion and anyone can post their photos (newbies or even people who take what some are calling "snapshots") in a general (rather open) "people" (as a subject) forum like this.

So, I think it is better when people do contribute their photos (of any experience level) and that it is BEST when everyone knows that posting comments and offering help are part of the "reason" for being in the community. Photos and comments are BOTH valuable to a forum like this, and I believe that anyone should feel comfortable contributing them here, and that to make THAT happen, the community should foster contributions of ALL levels of skill, encourage comments and discussions and even critiques when requested, and moderate (or be moderated) to make sure that people are not harassed or belittled or hounded or treated rudely.

And I also feel that one does not have to be a "professional" to offer comments that I would find helpful in my work as a photographer or artist.

When a stranger tells me that a photo I made moves them or touched them emotionally, that means a lot to me, and I find it very valuable to know. I don't care if they have a doctorate in graphics or art or engineering or if they never got a degree. What is important (to me) is that they image connected to someone in some way.





I agree with most of what you are saying. I guess what I was trying to say is go find the place where people actually respond. I am sure some people on here also hang out on POTN and get no love there either. So who knows the ryhme or reason.

Jon,

I can only speak for myself here...but here is what I do (how I comment on FM):

As my time on the net allows, I try to respond to each photo I view, sometimes with shorter comments, sometimes with suggestions.

I do this for everyone (Newbies or Pros or "just joined"), until they prove themselves to be jerks, and then I don't waste my time on them (or their photos).

I do tend to ignore the many "NSFW" posts here and all of the "Nude" posts here because I am often viewing the forum on a very public place (like a library or such while traveling) and because I seldom see anything interesting or new in those photos.

Post a photo and I will respond.



Oct 10, 2012 at 08:10 PM
Jon Uhler
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p.5 #12 · Slow forum? Less people posting? WHY?


Steady Hand wrote:
Jon Uhler wrote:
Steady Hand wrote:
Jon Uhler wrote:
Steady Hand wrote:
Sodonn wrote:
I post here occasionaly, lurk here alot to admire the work, get inspiration, etc. I get very discouraged from posting because of the negativity on the forum, particularly on the wedding photography section. The wedding section seems to be very clique'ish. I've watched some folks criticize one persons work and praise others for doing the same thing. The work both in this section and the wedding section is amazing. Out of all my years participating in various artistic forums, I've never seen such bickering between creative folks as I've seen here. Not affraid to post, just don't care to read through some of the comments.



I have seen much the same and felt the same too.

Thanks for adding your POV to this discussion.

This is my feeling as well.

You can almost predict the replies that certain people get on here. You can also always predict the number of replies your post will get because you are not "one" of those people.

Such is life. It happens and people tend to find other ways to get the CC they want. For instance, I am part of a group over on POTN that talks and CC's just about every day. So...go find a place where you are "one" of those people....

I understand your POV, but I don't share it.

I think cliques can naturally form in any community, with some being beneficial to a few, but often perceived negatively by the masses.

But, I don't think finding another clique is the best thing to do (for anyone).

Rather, I think it is best to foster a sense that anyone CAN participate in any discussion and anyone can post their photos (newbies or even people who take what some are calling "snapshots") in a general (rather open) "people" (as a subject) forum like this.

So, I think it is better when people do contribute their photos (of any experience level) and that it is BEST when everyone knows that posting comments and offering help are part of the "reason" for being in the community. Photos and comments are BOTH valuable to a forum like this, and I believe that anyone should feel comfortable contributing them here, and that to make THAT happen, the community should foster contributions of ALL levels of skill, encourage comments and discussions and even critiques when requested, and moderate (or be moderated) to make sure that people are not harassed or belittled or hounded or treated rudely.

And I also feel that one does not have to be a "professional" to offer comments that I would find helpful in my work as a photographer or artist.

When a stranger tells me that a photo I made moves them or touched them emotionally, that means a lot to me, and I find it very valuable to know. I don't care if they have a doctorate in graphics or art or engineering or if they never got a degree. What is important (to me) is that they image connected to someone in some way.





I agree with most of what you are saying. I guess what I was trying to say is go find the place where people actually respond. I am sure some people on here also hang out on POTN and get no love there either. So who knows the ryhme or reason.

Jon,

I can only speak for myself here...but here is what I do (how I comment on FM):

As my time on the net allows, I try to respond to each photo I view, sometimes with shorter comments, sometimes with suggestions.

I do this for everyone (Newbies or Pros or "just joined"), until they prove themselves to be jerks, and then I don't waste my time on them (or their photos).

I do tend to ignore the many "NSFW" posts here and all of the "Nude" posts here because I am often viewing the forum on a very public place (like a library or such while traveling) and because I seldom see anything interesting or new in those photos.

Post a photo and I will respond.



I have and you have....
Oct 10, 2012 at 08:17 PM
Ghost
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p.5 #13 · Slow forum? Less people posting? WHY?


Steady Hand wrote:
Lisa_Holloway wrote:
I REALLY wish there was a separate forum for the NSFW/nude photography. I'm not interested in it and don't click on those posts, and it skeeves me out a little to see those posts right next to seniors/kids/family/newborn/etc stuff.

RE people acting like jerks online - well...that happens on every internet forum there is, photography related and otherwise.


On your first point about a separate forum for NSFW/Nude photography:

I TOTALLY agree.

The posting of nudes and NSFW photos (topics) mixed in with the small children or teen portraits posts is ONE reason I was VERY reluctant to post ANY photos here on this forum.

I believe it WOULD be MUCH BETTER for there to be a separate forum on this site for those "adult oriented" posts.



+100000!!! Been wishing FM would set up sub-forums because while they are people related, the audience and interests are diverse.




Oct 10, 2012 at 08:32 PM
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p.5 #14 · Slow forum? Less people posting? WHY?


Ghost wrote:
+100000!!! Been wishing FM would set up sub-forums because while they are people related, the audience and interests are diverse.

Yeah I can understand the appeal of the nude stuff for those who are into it, but I'd rather not have the clutter. It seems to come and go, I mean there's not a lot right now, but there's been other times when I've checked and it seems like every third post is NSFW or something similar.


Oct 10, 2012 at 10:03 PM
Lisa_Holloway
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p.5 #15 · Slow forum? Less people posting? WHY?


Well, after having experienced a random a-hole bombing of my own, I am done here. I don't need that crap.


Oct 11, 2012 at 02:30 AM
Josh Evilsizor
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p.5 #16 · Slow forum? Less people posting? WHY?


Lisa_Holloway wrote:
Well, after having experienced a random a-hole bombing of my own, I am done here. I don't need that crap.


ok, whatever.


Oct 11, 2012 at 03:08 AM
ripkoken
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p.5 #17 · Slow forum? Less people posting? WHY?


One thing you could do is write to Frank Doorhof and ask why he no longer posts regularly.
Or ask Kevin Kertz why he doesn't post any more.

I think the reduced posts are a combination of many things.
1) Photographers that move out of the amateur category and into the professional category due to the improved quality of work and increased schedule pressures.
2) Snap shots that are less than adequate or not best work being posted (and they get rave reviews!)
3) Content that no longer contains information for improvement, i.e. new processes/techniques, etc. Lot of photographers are now protecting the new processes they develop so they can be sold as tutorials, (i.e. Rian Flynn blending modes)...and you can't blame them either.
4) Non-constructive criticism
5) To many nudes
6) Sometimes no response to a posting at all.

These are just a few of the big ones

If you notice, people gravitate to the photographers that post the really creative or exceptional photographs, generally no matter the content.
Oct 11, 2012 at 12:26 PM
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p.5 #18 · Slow forum? Less people posting? WHY?


ripkoken wrote:
1) Photographers that move out of the amateur category and into the professional category due to the improved quality of work and increased schedule pressures.
2) Snap shots that are less than adequate or not best work being posted (and they get rave reviews!)
3) Content that no longer contains information for improvement, i.e. new processes/techniques, etc. Lot of photographers are now protecting the new processes they develop so they can be sold as tutorials, (i.e. Rian Flynn blending modes)...and you can't blame them either.
4) Non-constructive criticism
5) To many nudes
6) Sometimes no response to a posting at all.
.
1) This is why it's necessary for any group to be able to attract new people in order to survive. Some turnover is inevitable, groups that cannot attract new members or aren't welcoming enough to keep them around eventually die off.

2) Perceived inequity. Back in the print days some groups would do critique sessions like this -- everyone who wants critique hands in their prints before, then shuffle them and go through them one by one. No one knows who shot what until the very end. Though often times you could tell, there were enough times that you were surprised also. I don't know if such a thing can be done here like a 'post new topic anonymously' or not. It doesn't help the other side either, I mean getting nothing but positive comments (when I am looking for ways to improve) is my main reason for posting here. If I got nothing but positive comments on an online forum, when I knew I could improve, it would be kinda upsetting...

3) Hard to say much about this. Mining the miners... I think the main base for help or instruction has shifted back to the local club level.

4) Sometimes it gets out of hand, but I'm not sure it's a big issue (it can be ignored). Not sure how to deal with it. I remember enough cases where the moderators did exactly what most decent people would do, and it ended up killing the forum rather than keeping it alive. Sometimes the actual result of one's actions can't be seen for months, and by then it's too late.

5) I've always just ignored the erotica, though I think the perception can be hurtful or drive away the new people. Someone who sees every third post labelled NSFW, they might decide 'not for me' and find another place to go.

6) Sometimes it can be hard to find something to say. Some photos speak for themselves, and it the message is complete, it's hard to say much beyond a few words.


Oct 11, 2012 at 01:41 PM
Josh Evilsizor
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p.5 #19 · Slow forum? Less people posting? WHY?


To many nudes.... Really? On the first page there are 2 nude posts, and 2 labeled nws... And the 2 nws imo dont need to be labled as such....


Oct 11, 2012 at 02:06 PM
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