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Archive 2012 · 6D - no "WOW" feeling?
  
 
gabimaster
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p.6 #1 · p.6 #1 · 6D - no "WOW" feeling?


So, better DR than D700, an even better AF than that from D7000 , so only guys with a lot of EF lenses will choose 6D(if they can't afford a 3200-3400$ more capable full-frame DSLR.)


Sep 24, 2012 at 09:46 PM
artd
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p.6 #2 · p.6 #2 · 6D - no "WOW" feeling?


gabimaster wrote:
I know about the much wider DR of D800 at low Iso values,but the DR from 5D3 is more than enouth(onestly, if someone consider that the DR from 5D3's sensor it's not enouth for him,he shoul consider another hobby/bussiness activity).

This is an absurd statement. Either you are being deliberately obtuse, or uneducated on photography outside of a narrow range of what you're familiar with.

I recently was doing an interior design photoshoot where I spent at least an additional hour setting up extra lighting to shoot the scene properly. The whole time I was thinking, if I had a D800 sensor I wouldn't need to be doing this, I'd just expose for the highlights and lift the shadows in post. This is not an isolated incident. I can look back across my entire backlog of photography and I can easily identify dozens of scenarios where having more dynamic range would have been a huge benefit.

If the DR of what Canon presently offers is plenty for you, fine. But don't presume those of us who think otherwise don't know what we're talking about.



Sep 24, 2012 at 09:51 PM
StillFingerz
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p.6 #3 · p.6 #3 · 6D - no "WOW" feeling?


artd wrote:
I can only speak for myself. But the reason I feel no "wow" over a 6D is because I basically have already been using a camera (5DII) for nearly four years now that for my purposes is probably just as good. (And if I needed to buy a replacement for it, I would probably just buy another 5DII.)


Art, this is the tough call if the 5D3 is not within budget, the AF looks great, but no interchangeable focusing screens. This really is my only gripe, I could stretch my funds to get the 5D3, but I've a bunch of older FD glass that I'd love to use, and that a ground glass IFS would have made most of it usable (I've an Ed Mika adapter that works great on my croppers) so I'm bummed

The 5D2 is proven, tested, solid, we all know what a great camera it is, my crop bodies (40/50D) share close to the same AF system, one I've used and am quite comfortable with. I'll wait to see 1st hand how the 6D's newer AF works before deciding/buying it.

The only thing missing on the 5D2 for me is the easier built-in WiFi smartphone option (but DSLR Controller and a cable can fix that, like it does on my 50D), slightly increased FPS and reduced weight. I've rented both the 5Dc and 5D2 and they are sweet cameras. For my style of shooting the 5D2 gets the edge for LiveView and higher ISO capabilities.

Until the AF reviews come in and I get some in-hand time with the 6D it remains a very possible option, if AF is crap, it's a 5D2 for me. Unless Sony comes out with a FF NEX then I'll be doomed! I might get a NEX anyway or just chuck/sell all my film gears...so many decisions, no perfect body...this sucks

Jerry



Sep 24, 2012 at 09:53 PM
artd
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p.6 #4 · p.6 #4 · 6D - no "WOW" feeling?


StillFingerz wrote:
Art, this is the tough call if the 5D3 is not within budget, the AF looks great, but no interchangeable focusing screens. This really is my only gripe, I could stretch my funds to get the 5D3, but I've a bunch of older FD glass that I'd love to use, and that a ground glass IFS would have made most of it usable (I've an Ed Mika adapter that works great on my croppers) so I'm bummed

The 5D2 is proven, tested, solid, we all know what a great camera it is, my crop bodies (40/50D) share close to the
...Show more
No, there is no perfect body unfortunately. Not even the D800...because for all its merits it has the one show-stopping flaw of not having an EF mount

6D will be a very legitimate option for some. I was just addressing why it lacks the "wow" factor for me and probably many others...which is that it just doesn't seem like any substantial improvement over the tried and true 5DII. It's not that the 6D is a bad camera. But in the context on what is and has been available on the market, it's just not very inspiring.

(Now a FF NEX...now that would be exciting! If nothing else it would let me use my Canon lenses on a FF Sony sensor I already can shoot my TS-Es on my current NEX with a crop sensor, and the results are awesome...so I'm just hoping this FF NEX thing might happen one day and I can leave all this Canon strife behind )



Sep 24, 2012 at 10:04 PM
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p.6 #5 · p.6 #5 · 6D - no "WOW" feeling?


artd wrote:
I can look back across my entire backlog of photography and I can easily identify dozens of scenarios where having more dynamic range would have been a huge benefit.

Yeah same here, there were times when I wish I had a camera that would see the world the way my eyes do, until it gets to this point I will always want more DR.



Sep 24, 2012 at 10:06 PM
gabimaster
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p.6 #6 · p.6 #6 · 6D - no "WOW" feeling?


artd ,on that scenario, I agree with you that the extra DR from D800's sensor it will be a huge benefit, but onestly, how often you have in a photo a very dark subject in a very bright landscape to push the shadows up in LR or other Raw converters so much ?
(4-5 stops ).



Sep 24, 2012 at 10:10 PM
mmurph
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p.6 #7 · p.6 #7 · 6D - no "WOW" feeling?


jj_glos wrote:
Is it that Sony have hit on the way to get nice clean shadows and increased DR and there just isn't any other way of doing it?


It is patented. So Canon has to do teh same effective thing in a differnet way.

this was the long term priblem with different styles of IS, for Canon and for other companies preventing Canon from doing it in body. Although I have not followed that discussion in recent years.

I believe the benefit comes from Sony doing processing right on teh chip - transistos on chip - that keep teh noise down. I also believe I had read in teh Canon Cinema Camera sensor that Canon is doing something similar there, without being able to read all of teh technical detaiols.


Also,, FWIW, a lot of video guys are sending the D600 back after buying it there are two Nikon flaws, one larger, one smaller that they cite.

1) The bigger one is that the 1920x1080 (HD) HDMI output actually has a black band around it and is somewhat reduced (causing troble with recording.)

2) A longer term Nikon issue is taht it is not possible to change aperature in Live View, plus some other values on different cameras.

So Nikon has a few hiccups too. Many are hoping for a firmware fix. I have no opinion, just reporting what I have read.

Best,
Michael



Sep 24, 2012 at 10:18 PM
artd
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p.6 #8 · p.6 #8 · 6D - no "WOW" feeling?


gabimaster wrote:
artd ,on that scenario, I agree with you that the extra DR from D800's sensor it will be a huge benefit, but onestly, how often you have in a photo a very dark subject in a very bright landscape to push the shadows up in LR or other Raw converters so much ?
(4-5 stops ).


It's not just about having a dark subject against a bright background. It's about having blocked up shadows in the composition. When I'm exposing to keep the highlights from blowing, that happens quite a bit. Sometimes it's not a big deal and sometimes it is. How often? Often enough.





Sep 24, 2012 at 10:27 PM
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p.6 #9 · p.6 #9 · 6D - no "WOW" feeling?


mmurph wrote:
I believe the benefit comes from Sony doing processing right on teh chip - transistos on chip - that keep teh noise down. I also believe I had read in teh Canon Cinema Camera sensor that Canon is doing something similar there, without being able to read all of teh technical detaiols.

I think you are refering to the early days, Canon was using CMOS while most others were using CCDs. But eventually everyone caught up, and I think it was Sony that first started using back-illuminated photo-sites? While Canon has always been using micro-lenses. That and just some kind of better noise reduction type circuits, maybe better noise reduction firmware or software also?

There are other ways to get better DR like Fuji's sensors with photo-sites of different sensitivities, etc. There's always another way, thought it often comes down to a tradeoff.



Sep 24, 2012 at 10:32 PM
Ralph Conway
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p.6 #10 · p.6 #10 · 6D - no "WOW" feeling?


In a german online mag I read they (Canon) put the pixel processing to the sensor to low down ISO noise (comparable to Exmor I guess).


Sep 26, 2012 at 08:59 AM
 

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dazedgonebye
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p.6 #11 · p.6 #11 · 6D - no "WOW" feeling?


Considering a 6D as an upgrade to my 300D.
Will I notice a difference?




Sep 26, 2012 at 09:38 PM
Ralph Conway
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p.6 #12 · p.6 #12 · 6D - no "WOW" feeling?


Could be. It is little bigger and more heavy.


Sep 26, 2012 at 10:07 PM
15Bit
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p.6 #13 · p.6 #13 · 6D - no "WOW" feeling?


dazedgonebye wrote:
Considering a 6D as an upgrade to my 300D.
Will I notice a difference?



Perhaps a better question is: I'm considering upgrading my 650d/40D/50D/60D/7D to a 6D. Will i notice a difference?



Sep 27, 2012 at 05:35 AM
StillFingerz
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p.6 #14 · p.6 #14 · 6D - no "WOW" feeling?


300D to 6D...pentamirror vs. pentaprisim...much brighter viewfinder with no tunnel effects on the 6D, yep there's one big dif



Sep 27, 2012 at 05:52 AM
StillFingerz
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p.6 #15 · p.6 #15 · 6D - no "WOW" feeling?


gabimaster wrote:
So, better DR than D700, an even better AF than that from D7000 , so only guys with a lot of EF lenses will choose 6D(if they can't afford a 3200-3400$ more capable full-frame DSLR.)


Not quite, some of us with an EF collection might have alt glass as well and in this case interchangeable focusing screens are a huge plus, so it's back to a 5Dc at $800 or a 5D2 at $1800 or to one of the FF 1D series bodies like the 1DX at $7000...cause the 5D3's is fixed; no choices.

I've been a Canon shooter for 34+ yrs, I like the in-hand feel of Canon bodies, since the T90 their ergonomics just fit me better, Nikon's bodies have never felt right for me...Sony's a900 feels better but not great..

It's not just about the glass, although much is

On reading further, the 5Dc had a 96% H/V viewfinder, the 5D2 is 98%, the 6D is 97% and the 5D3 is 100%...all have a mag factor of .71x...



Sep 27, 2012 at 06:07 AM
David Baldwin
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p.6 #16 · p.6 #16 · 6D - no "WOW" feeling?


Not a "WOW" just a "whimper".


Sep 27, 2012 at 07:23 AM
Ralph Conway
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p.6 #17 · p.6 #17 · 6D - no "WOW" feeling?


None of my former bodies offered a 100% VF. That was a "1" domain in the past that is reached now by 5D III, too.
I can not remember that since I shoot (1977) the VF limitation of not seeing all in it what will end on film/sensor, ever limited me to take a picture. I am pretty sure that the "step down" from 98% to 97% will not cause me any problems. I am using the center AF and recompose in 99% of my shots and usually know well what is there but not visible in the VF.
In a 300 DPI print of 463x309mm out of 6D this results in "uncontrolled" 6,9mm each side and 4,6mm top/down.



Sep 27, 2012 at 07:28 AM
jj_glos
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p.6 #18 · p.6 #18 · 6D - no "WOW" feeling?


I keep seeing the 97% VF being listed as a big issue when shooting landscapes, as you may get something in the frame that you do not wish. Which is a fair point, however isn't LiveView the preferred method for landscapers these days?


Sep 27, 2012 at 08:58 AM
StillFingerz
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p.6 #19 · p.6 #19 · 6D - no "WOW" feeling?


Ralph Conway wrote:
None of my former bodies offered a 100% VF. That was a "1" domain in the past that is reached now by 5D III, too.
I can not remember that since I shoot (1977) the VF limitation of not seeing all in it what will end on film/sensor, ever limited me to take a picture. I am pretty sure that the "step down" from 98% to 97% will not cause me any problems. I am using the center AF and recompose in 99% of my shots and usually know well what is there but not visible in the VF.
In
...Show more

I agree Ralph, in 3 1/2 decades a 100% viewfinder has not been my norm and hasn't been missed either. Even my beloved EOS-3 is 97%, before that the T-90 94%, the only body I've had with a 100% viewfinder was a 1V, I used it for about 6 months and it was brighter and easier to focus with alt/manual glass.

The 1V was sold for a lowly new 40D with it's horrible 95% viewfinder and a disgustingly sharp 70-200 f4L IS

@ JJ, I've never had issues viewfinder wise with landscapes or any other types of photography...well that's not completely true, my 4x5 was really bright, I had the dust it off a lot, and those damn film cartridges...what a pain



Sep 27, 2012 at 03:05 PM
Ralph Conway
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p.6 #20 · p.6 #20 · 6D - no "WOW" feeling?


Wrong thread! I deleted this comment and post it in the right one. Sorry.

Ralph

Edited on Sep 28, 2012 at 06:14 PM · View previous versions



Sep 28, 2012 at 07:53 AM
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