p.19 #2 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?
zhangyue wrote:
I also use that as indication for detail when I do infinity sharpness test but the problem for M9 is I am not sure I am in best focus with particular lens as there is no LV. My 50lux calibrated well after service, but I still found it past infinity.
So, Babu, how is your 50lux and M9 setting, were you able to focus bracket to confirm focus?
As for corner sharpness of M9, I am very curious to know that is it from lens itself or FF sensor corner issue due to angle of ray. I believe if you shoot them in raw and apply smart sharpening, the M9 will looks better at least will benefit more from sharpening as Sigma is really pretty good as is, very impressive!
I have no focus problems with the M9 and 50 Lux at really large distances, but it is always good to use some focus bracketing. Since my M9 and 50 Lux are well calibrated I often just repeat a shot several times with a new MF procedure in between to use the stochastic user error as focus bracketing.
Regarding the M9 images: They were RAW images, already sharped in LR (50/0.7/100). In my opinion the 50 Lux is a very good lens, but not great regarding corner sharpness at appertures between f/1.4 and f/5.6. It is probably optimized for wide open performance in the center area of the image.
p.19 #3 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?
Herb1911 wrote:
Boris,
Your sharpness test based on jpeg compression was quite interesting.
However my eyes tell me that sharpness / contrast is still improving towards f/5.6 and f/8 for edges and corners.
This is true up close and at infinity.
Here a screen dump of a part of the ColorChecker chart. This is 100%, on the left f/4, right f/8.
Of course in practice anything from f/4 and f/8 would be very good as you said already.
Herb
Herb, using the JPEG files sizes as an indicator for sharpness means using an average value of the image sharpness. Of course at f/8 the corner sharpness should be slightly better compared to f/2.8 or f/4, but at the same time the center sharpness is already significantly reduced.
Both will influence the file size.
But even by just judging the visual impression (forgetting the file sizes) it is often diffcult to tell which is the sharper image. Some people prefer or some subject need perfect corner sharpness with very good center sharpness for other perfect center sharpness with very good corner sharpness is better.
p.19 #4 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?
Hulyss Bowman wrote:
Since the SD9, if I have learned something with the Foveon, it is using Neutral Mode (Always).
Neutral color mode will give you the max dynamic range out of this camera. SPP can be set on -1 or just left as it is, it really depend of the subject.
Never ever sharpen an X3F. Just take what you need in sharpness out of SPP.
Sometime, you can switch on standard color mode but in SPP, when you want more punched photos and higher micro contrasts.
Generaly, applying just a little +1 or +2 in SPP saturation and tweaking a little bit the color weel will give you the most natural look you can ever want out of the DP2m.
The f4 aperture is and always was the best aperture of all the DP2 line; period.
If sometimes you have some "strange colors", especially in the red channel, do this cooking method in PS : Picture>> Setting >> Color sat >> Red +5 >> Yellow -15 (you can varies this variable between 8 and 15, depending of your needs).
I test it since August, you can rely on me. Try it
Thanks about the suggestions. I will do some tests with neutral and standard color settings compared to vivid. I'm not sure if I will really loose/gain DR if the resulting image looks the same (meaning adding saturation in LR compared to vivid setting in SPP).
And as I've already written I'm not really convinced about "never sharpen an X3F". I think you get a similar look with zero sharpening in SPP combined with some sharpening in LR as with all sharpening in SPP and zero sharpening in LR.
p.19 #5 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?
Herb1911 wrote:
And for web posting I do no further sharpening which is important I have noticed.
Herb
I completely agree with this. Any furtherLR export sharpening (at least above the low setting) has a negative effect on the image. Therefore the LR export settings in the above images (not the 100% crops, they had of course no export sharpening) were quite different between the M9 images and the DP2M images.
p.19 #6 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?
Bobu wrote:
I have no focus problems with the M9 and 50 Lux at really large distances, but it is always good to use some focus bracketing. Since my M9 and 50 Lux are well calibrated I often just repeat a shot several times with a new MF procedure in between to use the stochastic user error as focus bracketing.
Regarding the M9 images: They were RAW images, already sharped in LR (50/0.7/100). In my opinion the 50 Lux is a very good lens, but not great regarding corner sharpness at appertures between f/1.4 and f/5.6. It is probably optimized for wide open performance in the center area of the image.
Boris...Show more →
thanks for your reply. your results seems confirm my finding with 50lux. In some early test I did, I found it is not as sharp as my 50cron once slow down. But at the time, I still have issue with focusing 50lux. so, I ignore the results. your description make me want retest it with focus bracket in the future to see real performance of it once slow down. It would be pit if it is really that bad as shown in your comparison.
p.19 #9 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?
Bobu wrote:
Tariq, please do the comparison with the settings I suggested:
1. SPP=0, LR LR=10/0.7/100
vs.
2. SPP=-2, LR=25/0.7/100
Do you really see a big difference between these two alternatives?
I agree, that the 100% crops can look a bit strange with these settings, but the whole image looks good and not oversharped in my opinion.
Boris
At least with the DP1M I have, when I use "0" in SPP, things look way over-sharpened and unnatural to me. Even using "-1" is what I would consider fairly strong. In both cases, I can't see adding any additional sharpening at all (with "0" being way over the top to begin with) if preparing for native sizes or smaller. If I were going to make really large prints, I would probably sharpen even less, do my PP, interpolate up in size and then do final output sharpening. That you agree the 100% crops look strange sort of confirms the over-sharpening, at least if the intention is for a naturally looking image imo.
p.19 #10 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?
What is natural looking though......... is it unnatural, or is it just because we are used to the "look" of bayer sensors and the inherent softness that comes with them?
p.19 #11 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?
andyjaggy82 wrote:
What is natural looking though......... is it unnatural, or is it just because we are used to the "look" of bayer sensors and the inherent softness that comes with them?
p.19 #12 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?
This discussion of the DP2M and its output is making me crazy. That picture of the unopened box on the previous page almost pushed me over the edge!
Having used the kit lenses and old Nikon primes I had not been very happy with my NEX-7. I recently bought the Sigma 30/2.8 for the NEX-7 and have been very pleased with the combination. I wonder if anyone has had experience with both the NEX/Sigma 30 and the DP2M and could give a a quick comparison of the two strictly on image quality.
Here is a sample of the quality I am now seeing on the NEX with the Sigma 30. I know I am going off topic and apologize to all.
p.19 #14 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?
andyjaggy82 wrote:
What is natural looking though......... is it unnatural, or is it just because we are used to the "look" of bayer sensors and the inherent softness that comes with them?
Right, when I said the crops look sometimes a bit strange I meant that they look different from other (Bayer-Pattern) images. I don't see any significant sharpening artifacts in these corps, therefore I wouldn't call them oversharped. This is also true for the last examples Herb has posted, where he used similar settings.
p.19 #15 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?
Herb1911 wrote:
As a third Standard with some Lightroom adjustments versus Vivid.
Herb, which of these two (Standard + LR Saturation vs. Vivid) do you like better and why? At the moment I'm not sure which of these two settings I should use for my images (as a default setting).
p.19 #16 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?
Herb1911 wrote:
Boris,
You are correct that the DP2M lens has already optimum performance dead centre at f/4.
For me this camera is one of the very few that not only has very high detail resolution and the finest color
separation, but it is also a camera that can show this from corner to corner. Almost every other lens/camera combination nowadays can deliver in the centre 1/3rd to 2/3rd.
As I use the camera exclusively for landscape and still life I also want to make use of the excellent corner to corner sharpness. It is good to realize that you will loose only a little of the dead centre performance, but already less than a third out of the centre towards the corners f/8 will give you definitely better performance. I you require this for your image. As example I show again some 100% crops of the ColorChecker card but I found this also be true at infinity objects.
While the corner crops have nearly identical sharpness the f/4 center crop has clearly better sharpness compared to f/8 (although the difference is very likely not visible in a print).
p.19 #18 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?
Herb1911 wrote:
Boris I will have look in to this centre/corner sharpness later on.
I have two question:
1.Do you use autofocus with every shot taken?
2.What was the shooting distance from your wall?
Herb
1. I'm not sure if I used AF or MF on this subject. For the other tests I always used both MF (with 12x zoom) and AF and chose the sharper image afterwards. Could be the same with this image, but I'm not 100% sure, since it was shot about a week ago.
2. The shooting distance was something around 4-5 meter.
p.19 #19 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?
Bobu wrote:
No, but I would like to hear your conclusion Herb. What do you think is the best combination of SPP sharpening and LR sharpening?
Boris
Boris I have no conclusion but I have settled at a sharpening of -1,2 in SPP. For any image further processed in Lightroom I will have to do no or just a slight amount of sharpening. Please note that I keep the radius down in Lightroom to only sharpen for the tiniest detail. Otherwise you will see unnatural effects mostly in trees and grass. If you zoom in on the detail it might look still ok, but the global image has something unnatural to me. My reference is my subject and not a Bayer rendering of it that we are used to. But is of course also a matter of taste. You see already people saying that the sharpening default in SPP must be -2.0. But my matchbox samples show that it is completely subject dependent.
Things might change but for now I am happy with it.
p.19 #20 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?
Bobu wrote:
1. I'm not sure if I used AF or MF on this subject. For the other tests I always used both MF (with 12x zoom) and AF and chose the sharper image afterwards. Could be the same with this image, but I'm not 100% sure, since it was shot about a week ago.
2. The shooting distance was something around 4-5 meter.
Boris
And just one more question.
When you focus manual do you do this at working aperture, or do you focus wide open and then close to the desired aperture?
