Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?

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Herb1911
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p.16 #1 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?

Still tuning Sigma Foveon color to my liking.

On the left SPP neutral default. On the right my latest steps towards a landscape color profile.

Herb

2013 © Herb1911

Oct 16, 2012 at 04:00 PM

Herb1911
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p.16 #2 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?

carstenw wrote:
Great shot! Was there more involved than just the NEX-7 and 90 Macro?

carstenw,
Actually a lot more, but this is a bit beyond the scope of this Merill thread.
I was mistaken regarding the lens; it was the newest Canon 100 mm macro with a 1.4x extender (cheap Kenko!) in use

Herb

Edited on Oct 16, 2012 at 04:56 PM · View previous versions

Oct 16, 2012 at 04:04 PM

Herb1911
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p.16 #3 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?

contas wrote:
@Herb1911: the color shift is still there in lesser scale but still obvious.I wonder why Sigma DP serie cameras already use retrofocus mechanism to avoid this kind of vignetting.If it's still there it 'll be tough.It's a common issue for digital RF from Leica M8 and others.I once mentioned about it here with my DSLR SD1:
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1130998
And a FM parallel forum saying about it :
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1150772

contas,
I sincerely believe you are mixing up a few things. The phenomena you are referring to is an issue mostly seen with typical range finder wide angle lenses used with adapters on m4/3 or Nex camera's. Sometimes called Ray Angle issues. Due to the thick cover glass used on top of the sensors in combination with the not suitable lens designs gives color shift that can be removed in post process with for instance Cornerfix or LCC profiles in Capture One.
I have been busy with this phenomena since the introduction of the first m4/3 camera's. In most cases these color shifts go hand in hand with softening / unsharpness towards the edges and corners.
I can assure you that the Sigma DP2M has none of these issues.
Image noise / applied vignette in post process and pushing colors can introduce some color shifts / color blotching as with any digital camera.
I measured the image you mentioned from left to right and I can not find any more color shift. I did apply a little gradient to get more drama in the sky, maybe you are seeing this.
So I post a smaller sample this time without the sky gradient.

Herb

Oct 16, 2012 at 04:26 PM

andyjaggy82
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p.16 #4 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?

Reminds me of a client who would give me the feedback of "anomaly" and an arrow pointed at some general area of the image...

Oct 16, 2012 at 05:17 PM

Herb1911
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p.16 #5 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?

andyjaggy82 wrote:
Reminds me of a client who would give me the feedback of "anomaly" and an arrow pointed at some general area of the image...

Oct 16, 2012 at 05:29 PM

millsart
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p.16 #6 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?

There becomes a point where you have to wonder if the viewer is looking at the image or simply at the pixels.

A question of what is the actual scene of verses looking for things like blotchiness and color shifts.

If one simply wants to have images that show color shifts, edge sharpness, etc, then it would be far less effort to simply stay inside and shoot some plain white walls rather than make the effort to go outside, hike to a nice scene and try to compose a pleasing photo.

Obviously this is a gear/technical based forum at its core, but I think sometimes we can rather miss the forest for the trees as the old saying goes.

Oct 16, 2012 at 05:43 PM

itai195
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p.16 #7 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?

Has anyone here been able to use SPP on a Mac? I can't even manage to get it to launch, it immediately hangs. It's a pity, this would be enough to kill the idea of getting a DP2M for me.

Oct 16, 2012 at 05:43 PM

unangelino
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p.16 #8 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?

I've never had a problem with SPP on my Mac (running OS10.6.8) other than SPP being pretty sluggish.

Which OS are you running?

Oct 16, 2012 at 05:47 PM

Herb1911
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p.16 #9 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?

This is only for those who are still able to accept my wandering with Foveon files

I only shoot raw. Batch process in Sigma Photo Pro and import as 16 bit tiff ProPhoto RGB in Lightroom.

I started using as default color Neutral, then tried Portrait and finally settled on Standard as this gave the best result later on in Lightroom.

For X3F default files I make only the following changes:

Sharpening -1.2
Highlight correction 0
Luminance noise reduction one notch down
White balance on auto, adjusted in SPP when it is clearly off

I made a preset in Lightroom for the Tone Curve, Camera Calibration and Luminance Color adjustments.
Also required is a default Vibrance setting of 35
This will give me the most neutral colors, balanced contrast and proper sharpness to start with.

Again I show the final screendumps of the Lightroom setting.
The preset is just a push on the button.

Then I have to adjust Whites, Blacks and Clarity and most of the time I am already very close.
Further adjustment depends on the specific file and taste.

I you are happy just shooting jpgs, please continue to do so. Only a happy photographer makes good images.
If you do not care to take all these efforts then please give it a try if you like.

Herb

2013 © Herb1911

left Standard setting SPP, right with Lightroom adjustments

2013 © Herb1911

Oct 16, 2012 at 05:49 PM

itai195
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p.16 #10 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?

unangelino wrote:
I've never had a problem with SPP on my Mac (running OS10.6.8) other than SPP being pretty sluggish.

Which OS are you running?

10.8.2. It looks like it eventually stops hanging after a few minutes, long enough to open a raw file. But then it continues to frequently spin as I make adjustments. Seems pretty unusable to me.

Oct 16, 2012 at 06:04 PM

mpmendenhall
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p.16 #11 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?

itai195 wrote:
Has anyone here been able to use SPP on a Mac? I can't even manage to get it to launch, it immediately hangs. It's a pity, this would be enough to kill the idea of getting a DP2M for me.

I'm using SPP 5.3.2 on OSX 10.8.2. I have had it hang up once and require a force-quit, but generally it generally works fine (but slowly). Don't try to make too many adjustments at once; change one thing, and wait for the progress bar (upper right on image window) to complete before starting the next. Don't hit "full resolution" until you are nearly done with adjustments, since everything will be even slower after that.

Oct 16, 2012 at 06:07 PM

Tariq Gibran
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p.16 #12 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?

itai195 wrote:
Has anyone here been able to use SPP on a Mac? I can't even manage to get it to launch, it immediately hangs. It's a pity, this would be enough to kill the idea of getting a DP2M for me.

I have not ran into an issue in OS X yet myself but I have not put it through any sort of torture testing yet. You might try something as easy as fixing permissions in Disk Utility - or possibly start up in 32bit and see if that makes a difference.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3773

Oct 16, 2012 at 06:08 PM

Tariq Gibran
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p.16 #13 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?

Oh jeez, 10.8! Beta testing there? SPP works fine in 10.7 Lion...but even PS and Bridge hang occasionally there as compared to 10.6! oh well.

Oct 16, 2012 at 06:11 PM

itai195
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p.16 #14 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?

10.8 on a retina MBP, I'm really living on the edge

I haven't had any other issues with 10.8. I'll keep chugging along with SPP and see if I can manage to get it to work. At this point I think I pretty much only want to adjust white balance in SPP and get into LR as quickly as I can.

Oct 16, 2012 at 06:18 PM

Tariq Gibran
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p.16 #15 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?

Well, if you have to live on the edge, that's the way to go!

Seems like I read that Sigma will have a major update of SPP towards the end of the month.

Oct 16, 2012 at 06:36 PM

itai195
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p.16 #16 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?

Finally got it to work. It seems SPP didn't like my network environment, in which there are a bunch of network volumes visible... It seems to be trolling through them trying to populate its source list. Turned off wifi, rebooted, and it started working...

At any rate, I did contact Sigma and they claimed there's an update coming soon. No details available. No idea if it would actually resolve this issue. But now that I at least seem to be able to work in it, that's a good sign. Looking forward to giving the DP2M a whirl.

Oct 16, 2012 at 08:48 PM

SmallnotTall
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p.16 #17 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?

Sorry to post this again, but I was really hoping for a reply-

"I am honestly considering the DP1M (or DP2M) as I think it may be ideal for my intended usage. The things that catch my eye are the excellent resolution, small size (compared to a DSLR) and price (again, compared to a full frame DSLR). Being restricted to ISO 100-200 doesn't worry me in the slightest since that is where I do the majority of my shooting anyway.

I have one question though, is what is the camera like with longer exposures (say 15 sec) at night? I have often read that this camera is poor in low light but with a tripod and low ISO it should still give excellent results right?"

I will also add, if it is bad in low light (even at ISO 100 and on a tripod), what are the problems (i.e. noise, colour accuracy etc)? Thanks!

Oct 16, 2012 at 11:17 PM

theSuede
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p.16 #18 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?

The long exposure performance is pretty average - that is; they're more than ok.
It's not like an actively cooled mil-spec CCD performance, but I've seen a lot worse. Blackpoint rises a bit, and you get some pattern noise (but not much).

In a Foveon sensor, noise, color accuracy and internal contrast are tightly connected. When one goes, the other two goes at the same time. But both the internal jpg engine and SPP balance this pretty well, so you basically get about ISO800 DP1M >> ISO3200 in a normal newer APS camera.
Like this:
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/NEX5N/FULLRES/NEX5NhSLI03200_NR_STD_D.HTM
vs this:
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/SD1/FULLRES/SD1hSLI0800.HTM

Oct 17, 2012 at 12:01 AM

SmallnotTall
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p.16 #19 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?

Thankyou theSuede. These cameras ( DP1M and DP2M) really interest me, looks like I might have to bite the bullet and buy one.

Oct 17, 2012 at 01:45 AM

contas
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p.16 #20 · Sigma DP2 Merrill: Have any of you tried it?

@andyjaggy82: over-confident won't lead to anywhere, some clients may bring you back behind the start line, it's always right for any profession.
@Herb1911: may be you don't notice well or don't have enough time to work with foveon, the green edge phenomenon is still there, means that retrofocus works but cann't totally "erase" vignette as expected ( like any other optical corrections : Aspherical, Apo ... ).Ok you say DP2 M is OK nothing like green edge as I saw, but other DP2 M users say Yes it's there: notice Queentin posts and answers.
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?action=printpage;topic=69796.0
I really like the concept and the result ( not performance) of any foveon from SD9 to DPM and to SD1M, but the images are posted mustbe in the best condition.

Oct 17, 2012 at 02:23 AM

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