n0b0 wrote:
Sorry but what bashing? He didn't call you any names. Why do you have to take it personally?
He called features a "gimmick" that are important to others. For me this can be seen as a kind of bashing too. This is why I always add the words "(for me"), when I value anything.
We simple suckers must make a stand sometimes, with all the bashing going on.
Jaakko
Maybe we should found a european "simple sucker camera" community. I am pretty sure it will grow fast.
But to come back to this thread. I started it, because I was impressed by the camera, when I held it in my hands and I wanted to find out more about it soon.
vchowdhary for example wrote:
"I see no point to getting this camera.
No popup flash, no dual sd cards, cheap plastic build,"
My opinion is different. I would never use a build in flash (as long it can not be directed to the ceiling). I would prefere a second memory card, but I never needed one, too. And concerning "cheap plastic build, I am not sure if "vchowdhary" ever held this camera in his hands. In my opinion comments like this are not helpfull but missleading. I was astonished, how good the 6D body felt. Much better than my 5D II that I use over 3.5 years now and even better than 5D III. 6Ds build and finish feels great to me. And 6D is not made of cheap plastic. Only the upper section is (imo expensive) plastic to get GPS and wifi to work. As far I know this is not possible in a full metall housing. It was D600 that is mainly made out of plastic and (again: imo by experience) feels cheap.
So far I got all the answers I wished out of this and co-threads step by step now. Except the most important one: IQ. Hope that will follow soon. But anyway ... what ever will be written - I have to test for real for myself and "see" what I shot with this camera.
The 6D is clearly a body that everyone feels quite strongly about (either for or against), so I thought I'd recap of my thoughts and feelings of the 6D.
It's clearly a product of strict segmentation, Canon-style. The ergonomics, plastic build and pared-down, 60D-like controls underline this, and the 11-point AF system is the icing on the cake. There is nothing aspiring about this camera, which is probably why it is such a let-down for many.
Meanwhile, it provides GPS/WiFi, which are either considered mildly interesting or wildly incoherent and out of place. From a photographer's viewpoint, the kicker of the camera is the highly sensitive center AF point that goes to -3 EV, and also to a point the new focus MA feature (separate MA point for each end of zoom range).
Now, the most important point is of course the price. I consider the MSRP too high, and won't be buying this camera for the 2000 EUR retail price. The 5DmkIII offers so much more for the current 800 EUR price difference, and the Nikon D800 with its 2300 EUR street price frankly does make the 6D look like a bad joke. I'll give you that.
However, I expect prices of the 6D to start plummeting rather quickly. For me, it will be interesting how low the price will go. I will be disappointed personally, if the price plateaus out at 1800 EUR.
Edit: Of course I forgot to mention the second most interesting point for me: the IQ. I'm also standing on the sidelines, waiting for the final conclusion on how much pushing and pulling the files can take.
ukkisavosta wrote:
The 6D is clearly a body that everyone feels quite strongly about (either for or against), so I thought I'd recap of my thoughts and feelings of the 6D.
It's clearly a product of strict segmentation, Canon-style. The ergonomics, plastic build and pared-down, 60D-like controls underline this, and the 11-point AF system is the icing on the cake. There is nothing aspiring about this camera, which is probably why it is such a let-down for many.
Meanwhile, it provides GPS/WiFi, which are either considered mildly interesting or wildly incoherent and out of place. From a photographer's viewpoint, the kicker of the camera is the highly sensitive center AF point that goes to -3 EV, and also to a point the new focus MA feature (separate MA point for each end of zoom range).
Now, the most important point is of course the price. I consider the MSRP too high, and won't be buying this camera for the 2000 EUR retail price. The 5DmkIII offers so much more for the current 800 EUR price difference, and the Nikon D800 with it's 2300 EUR street price frankly does make the 6D look like a bad joke. I'll give you that.
However, I expect prices of the 6D to start plummeting rather quickly. For me, it will be interesting how low the price will go. I will be disappointed personally, if the price plateaus out at 1800 EUR.
I expect it will be around 1500 next May. The D600 will be as much as 7D is now (1.200), D800 will stay around 2.000 and 5D III will be available for 2.400 (all € here in germany).
Ralph Conway wrote:
If IQ turns out like I expect it, I would not wait for a better price. One shooting a month would make more sense to purchase it earlier.
Ralph - I had no interest in this camera whatsoever until you started this thread. Now I'm thinking I really need one of these. If people start raving about the low light AF next week (after the camera ships), then I will buy one before Christmas.
The 6D works in the DARK, unlike the 5D and 5D2.
(it will AF down to -3 EV I think...) And I think the 5D2 only works until +0.5. Big difference there.
Which translates into: it will work better most of time (even in daylight) when trying to focus on dark clothing or any dark or low contrast subject. this is worth a lot IMO.
Also it is said that the periphery points are much better now with the 6D.
5D2 works at -0.5EV, not +0.5EV. Still a big difference though.
That said, I still can't understand what Canon developed a new AF sensor with only the central one as cross-type. Anyone care to make a guess? I can't believe a cross-type AF sensor costs more to develop than a linear one.
kapytalyst wrote:
Ralph - I had no interest in this camera whatsoever until you started this thread. Now I'm thinking I really need one of these. If people start raving about the low light AF next week (after the camera ships), then I will buy one before Christmas.
sorry about that. Maybe if some people more act like you and post it here Canon will give me a 6D to start my own 6D blog? ;-)
Yakim Peled wrote:
5D2 works at -0.5EV, not +0.5EV. Still a big difference though.
That said, I still can't understand what Canon developed a new AF sensor with only the central one as cross-type. Anyone care to make a guess? I can't believe a cross-type AF sensor costs more to develop than a linear one.
Happy shooting,
Yakim.
I am with you here. Even it looks to me the outer AF points work more reliable, what might have been the cause, why not all are cross type and work even more reliable? Imo in costs that could not have made more than a few $s.
Well, for me the camera is underspecced for the price Canon is asking. So all my previous criticism about the lack of pop up flash, 97% VF, single axis level and the center only cross type only applies to this camera at the current price.
When it gets to around $1500-1600, that's when it's actually selling at its true value, IMO. But by then, there will already be a newer camera.
Keeping in mind that 5D3 is ONLY hitting that accuracy with a handful of certain new lenses - such as 28/2.8 IS - not with every older lens in production (according to Rogers previous articles, unless I am misunderestimating what he 'splained in them).
With 'older' lenses (100L macro and later, 2009?) I believe SD of 5D3 was similar to 5D2's numbers (at center point).
If we look at numbers and ignore all the comments, this is what we can conclude about AF consistency and accuracy:
Tier 1: 1DX, 5D3... 1D4 trailing slightly
Tier 2: 6D, 1Ds3, T4i... 50D, 60D trailing slightly
Tier 3: 5D2, 7D, T3i
jorkata wrote:
Excellent. I guess you are the target market.
I'm not so excited about gimmicks and I wouldn't pay $2100 for FF Rebel ... but that's just me .
For 3 decades I kept pushing manual chairs, used gloves to protect my hands from blisters, people joked that my finger less gloves were a gimmick. When my arms n shoulders began to ache from thirty yrs of constant pressure I switched to the gimmick of a wheelchair with motors.
In 78 when I broke my neck, no longer could these still fingers comfortably press buttons, even the shutter. So I turned to a bulb cable release to fire the shutter; our mouths, teeth are wonderful gimmicks. Now a gimmicky wired remote switch sits between my lips/teeth, my tongue now fires the shutter...No doubt I look quite silly with a gimmicky wire hanging out my mouth.
Seems my gimmicks (adaptations) for continuing photography are pretty cool as they've let me continue to create. Now with WiFi, a touch screen, to help make the mechanical fundamentals of shooting a bit easier, I'll continue to enjoy life and create.
Never surrender, ignorance is not bliss, it's just a gimmick to fool the fool.
Happy 6D or whatever eosfun
Jerry
ukkisavosta wrote:
To answer your questions, no, he is not calling anyone names, but he implicitly makes the point that anyone wanting to buy the 6D must be a simpleton, with reference to price, target market, and himself not being the least bit interested.
You are reading too much into my post.
It's not the camera that ticks me off, btw; it's mostly the rampant kool-aid drinking .
He is also clearly bashing the camera (calling it an "FF rebel with gimmicks").
Well, it is what it is .
Seriously, the 6D is a very good concept overall.
And any gripes with the camera will be easily overlooked when the price comes down to match the specs.
I predict that Canon will be somewhat disappointed by where the price settles.
But hey, they did it all to themselves. They should have invested more in core features rather than ... hmm, gimmicks.
Like a good AF, for example .
Anyway, happy 6D.
And don't get me wrong, I might actually buy one ... when the price drops to $1600 (and it will).
I would love to meet you, Jerry and slash my beer glas against yours! And empty it in one breath, holding yours and while you are doing the same. Its not only a pleasure but a honor to be part of this community and beeing able to meet you online. All this stuff we dayly use are big gifts imo. I am happy to be here. And to be it now.
ukkisavosta wrote:
Yes, the lack of cross-type outer points has me scratching my head as well. Come on, even the new Rebel and 60D has all cross-type points. What gives?
It's a pity, really.
If they were all cross-type, who would buy the 5D3? I am guessing a lot fewer people would...
jorkata wrote:
Seriously, the 6D is a very good concept overall.
And any gripes with the camera will be easily overlooked when the price comes down to match the specs.
I predict that Canon will be somewhat disappointed by where the price settles.
But hey, they did it all to themselves. They should have invested more in core features rather than ... hmm, gimmicks.
Like a good AF, for example .
Well I guess you should work for Canon marketing, as they don't seem to know how to sell cameras.
Imagemaster wrote:
Well I guess you should work for Canon marketing, as they don't seem to know how to sell cameras.
Uhm, they really don't.
Have you been on Amazon recently?
Canon is having a fire sale on all their camera. It's like they are going out of business or something.
The 5DIII is currently listed for $3299 ... with the 24-105L kit lens.
(Season greetings to all that payed $3500 for the body only ).
And do you know why?
Because it's December now and their quarterly sales are below projections ... again.
Like in the last quarter.
So, yeah, I don't think that they know how to sell cameras.
The good news is that we might have seen the best of Canon's premium pricing.
Now back to the business of providing value for customers. What a novel idea.
