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Venue rules

TRReichman
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p.3 #1 · Venue rules

I don't really work with many videographers or DJ's. I do work with bands, and for 3/4 of the reception they kick ass wearing suits. I work with coordinators who work harder than any photographer I know of that wear suits all day. I work with catering managers who have an incredibly difficult logistical job and accomplish it looking like they just stepped off of a brooks brothers ad. Part of doing these jobs is being able to do them and maintain the appearance the whole time.

Part of why people get hired at this level is not that they look like they are busting ass, but they produce stellar results and make it look effortless.

- trr

Sep 13, 2012 at 09:49 PM

TTLKurtis
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p.3 #2 · Venue rules

marti.g3 wrote:
TRReichman wrote:
echo Ian - I'd wear the suit. I do at every wedding and it isn't ridiculous. Viewing the job as manual labor is a choice, and my experience working black tie weddings leads me to believe that most other black tie vendors can get the job done and look great, calm, and polished at all times. That's part of the appeal.

- trr

"most" other black tie vendors ? You mean like the video guy standing around shooting.....not directing, posing, orchestrating, capturing a variety of angle, stooping, running around, climbing, or the DJ, standing there talking on a microphone ? I guess if we could stand in one place for most of our job we'd look polished too...not like we're really working.

How much running around, climbing, stooping do you *really* need to be doing?

edit: Todd said it better than me, as usual.

Sep 13, 2012 at 09:51 PM

D. Diggler
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p.3 #3 · Venue rules

TRReichman wrote:
I don't really work with many videographers

You'd think those high-end gigs would want to memorialize it with video. It's not like they don't have the money to hire video.

Sep 13, 2012 at 10:09 PM

Manzelle
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p.3 #4 · Venue rules

Sep 13, 2012 at 11:32 PM

Charles Gallo
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p.3 #5 · Venue rules

funny, I used to feel the same way about jackets (uncomfortable, hard to work in etc). Then about 2 years back I had a TRUE custom sport jacket made for me. Not a "made to measure" but bespoke. I'll tell you, that darned thing is more comfortable than a windbreaker (we'll I've just dropped 80 lbs, so it doesn't really fit anymore, but before that). If you are shooting HOW many weddings/year, don't you think that maybe spending $800-900 on a jacket that fits, looks GOOD, and is comfortable is worth it?

Sep 14, 2012 at 12:13 AM

teebat
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p.3 #6 · Venue rules

Sep 14, 2012 at 12:28 AM

bwield
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p.3 #7 · Venue rules

If a venue or client asked me to wear a jacket to the wedding. I would wear a jacket. I really can't see it hindering me in anyway.
I would echo the sentiment that buying a quality fitted jacket can make a huge difference.

Sep 14, 2012 at 12:54 AM

marti.g3
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p.3 #8 · Venue rules

Charles Gallo wrote:
funny, I used to feel the same way about jackets (uncomfortable, hard to work in etc). Then about 2 years back I had a TRUE custom sport jacket made for me. Not a "made to measure" but bespoke. I'll tell you, that darned thing is more comfortable than a windbreaker (we'll I've just dropped 80 lbs, so it doesn't really fit anymore, but before that). If you are shooting HOW many weddings/year, don't you think that maybe spending $800-900 on a jacket that fits, looks GOOD, and is comfortable is worth it?

$800-900 for a jacket ? Not in my world....

Sep 14, 2012 at 01:28 PM

marti.g3
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p.3 #9 · Venue rules

TTLKurtis wrote:
marti.g3 wrote:
TRReichman wrote:
echo Ian - I'd wear the suit. I do at every wedding and it isn't ridiculous. Viewing the job as manual labor is a choice, and my experience working black tie weddings leads me to believe that most other black tie vendors can get the job done and look great, calm, and polished at all times. That's part of the appeal.

- trr

"most" other black tie vendors ? You mean like the video guy standing around shooting.....not directing, posing, orchestrating, capturing a variety of angle, stooping, running around, climbing, or the DJ, standing there talking on a microphone ? I guess if we could stand in one place for most of our job we'd look polished too...not like we're really working.

How much running around, climbing, stooping do you *really* need to be doing?

edit: Todd said it better than me, as usual.

Actually "I" do quite a bit. I even will lie on the ground for some shots, lots of kneeling, it's not like I just plant myself in the corner and shoot away, I try to be where the shots are.

Sep 14, 2012 at 01:30 PM

marti.g3
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p.3 #10 · Venue rules

Sep 14, 2012 at 01:37 PM

tonyhart
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p.3 #11 · Venue rules

To each their own. Some people would get on board with these rules, others wouldn't.

Myself, I wear suit trousers, dress shoes and a collared shirt. I don't wear a tie and I roll up my sleeves. I'm at work and I dress accordingly. I'm shooting at Lincoln's Inn next weekend (one of the Inns of Court) and although I don't usually ask whether this is ok, because of the venue's prestige I did check. It's fine. If it had not been fine, there would have had to have been a REALLY good reason to get me to wear something different. Else, personally, I'd have bailed.

A large part of my job is to please my clients, however I'm not willing to simply roll over and accept anything that the client or the venue deems to be necessary. I think those of you who do are either:

a) mad
b) unperturbed by anything in life
c) too obsessed with the payoff to consider other factors

Sep 14, 2012 at 01:43 PM

Sergio Mottola
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p.3 #12 · Venue rules

what are they gonna do - send you home? wear the jacket and take it off when things get tangly.

Sep 14, 2012 at 02:25 PM

Charles Gallo
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p.3 #13 · Venue rules

marti.g3 wrote:
Charles Gallo wrote:
funny, I used to feel the same way about jackets (uncomfortable, hard to work in etc). Then about 2 years back I had a TRUE custom sport jacket made for me. Not a "made to measure" but bespoke. I'll tell you, that darned thing is more comfortable than a windbreaker (we'll I've just dropped 80 lbs, so it doesn't really fit anymore, but before that). If you are shooting HOW many weddings/year, don't you think that maybe spending $800-900 on a jacket that fits, looks GOOD, and is comfortable is worth it?

$800-900 for a jacket ? Not in my world....
When it is the only way you can get a jacket that FITS (I was, and AM a BIG guy), and you need one, you'll pay it. Once I did, I understood bespoke - they MOVE like you do. I've since seen an off the rack that is in the same colors, cut to the same style, the difference is like the difference between a kit lens and an L series. Seriously, the fit, the movement, the look and the feel are amazing. One was cheap wool blend, the other is fine wool/silk blend. One is glued, one is hand stitched. I need a really HIGH arm skye as I have very very short arms, and unless the skye is high and tight, the jacket binds, I can do jumping jacks in the jacket

I'm wondering if I can get it re-tailored to fit my new weight (maybe) - when I finally stabilize in weight, I'll buy another one, there is THAT much difference. I'm talking people stopping you to ask "where did you get that jacket?" kinda difference. I'm talking having strange women come over to "adjust your collar" (aka flirting) kinda difference - and I'm a 50 YO VERY fat guy, so not used to that kinda thing

Sep 14, 2012 at 02:40 PM

TRReichman
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p.3 #14 · Venue rules

tonyhart wrote:
A large part of my job is to please my clients, however I'm not willing to simply roll over and accept anything that the client or the venue deems to be necessary. I think those of you who do are either:

a) mad
b) unperturbed by anything in life
c) too obsessed with the payoff to consider other factors

Interesting...

a) - You mean "English mad" right? Like "crazy" not like "u mad bro"? I think it is crazy to lose out on jobs because you aren't willing to dress respectfully to the event. I know that a lot of people are really upset about the idea that this is a job, but pretty much every job I've ever had (save selling porn!) had some kind of dress requirement. I think it is somewhat "mad" to think that this wouldn't be the case.

b) - I like this one. I don't see the point of making a big deal about a small deal.

c) - I am obsessed with the payoff since this is my job. I don't see a jacket as a factor that makes it worth not making thousands of dollars. It isn't like it is "selling out" on the core principles of my company to wear a jacket.

I think this is hilarious. The one topic that gets photographers the most angry has absolutely nothing to do with art or taking photos, it is having an opinion about what they ought to be wearing at a wedding. People get fucking pissed if you forward the idea that it might be some kind of benefit to dress in a different manner. We're photographers, not fashion moguls.

I'm going to make an assumption. If you are shooting black-tie weddings you're probably working with folks who see themselves as upper-level operators. They can afford to get what they want. In fact, they can usually afford to get EXACTLY what they want without compromising. So why choose a great photographer who is obstinate about their appearance when you can hire one that is perceived to be just as good of a photographer and also looks the part - why hire the other guy?

Photographers seem to take the stance that it is ridiculous for a client to dictate dress. I would just advocate taking a second to look at it from the other side and wonder why a paid professional would make a big deal about dressing appropriately for the job. Almost everyone on Earth has a job and a dress code, so we probably look pretty petulant when we make an issue out of it.

Hey, I love this topic. I love it because photographers make a big deal about it and refuse to do it and it makes it FAR easier for me to book very expensive jobs that other photographers can't book because their lens belt/casual shoes/rolled up sleeves/whatever is more important to them than tens of thousands per year. Call me crazy, say I roll over, I dry my eyes on fat checks.

- trr

Sep 14, 2012 at 02:42 PM

Inku Yo
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p.3 #15 · Venue rules

Wait until a venue requires me to wear a jacket and only feeds me cold sandwiches!!!!

Sep 14, 2012 at 02:54 PM

bwield
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p.3 #16 · Venue rules

TRReichman wrote:

Interesting...

a) - You mean "English mad" right? Like "crazy" not like "u mad bro"? I think it is crazy to lose out on jobs because you aren't willing to dress respectfully to the event. I know that a lot of people are really upset about the idea that this is a job, but pretty much every job I've ever had (save selling porn!) had some kind of dress requirement. I think it is somewhat "mad" to think that this wouldn't be the case.

b) - I like this one. I don't see the point of making a big deal about a small deal.

c) - I am obsessed with the payoff since this is my job. I don't see a jacket as a factor that makes it worth not making thousands of dollars. It isn't like it is "selling out" on the core principles of my company to wear a jacket.

I think this is hilarious. The one topic that gets photographers the most angry has absolutely nothing to do with art or taking photos, it is having an opinion about what they ought to be wearing at a wedding. People get fucking pissed if you forward the idea that it might be some kind of benefit to dress in a different manner. We're photographers, not fashion moguls.

I'm going to make an assumption. If you are shooting black-tie weddings you're probably working with folks who see themselves as upper-level operators. They can afford to get what they want. In fact, they can usually afford to get EXACTLY what they want without compromising. So why choose a great photographer who is obstinate about their appearance when you can hire one that is perceived to be just as good of a photographer and also looks the part - why hire the other guy?

Photographers seem to take the stance that it is ridiculous for a client to dictate dress. I would just advocate taking a second to look at it from the other side and wonder why a paid professional would make a big deal about dressing appropriately for the job. Almost everyone on Earth has a job and a dress code, so we probably look pretty petulant when we make an issue out of it.

Hey, I love this topic. I love it because photographers make a big deal about it and refuse to do it and it makes it FAR easier for me to book very expensive jobs that other photographers can't book because their lens belt/casual shoes/rolled up sleeves/whatever is more important to them than tens of thousands per year. Call me crazy, say I roll over, I dry my eyes on fat checks.

- trr

All of this

Sep 14, 2012 at 03:05 PM

marti.g3
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p.3 #17 · Venue rules

Charles Gallo wrote:
marti.g3 wrote:
Charles Gallo wrote:
funny, I used to feel the same way about jackets (uncomfortable, hard to work in etc). Then about 2 years back I had a TRUE custom sport jacket made for me. Not a "made to measure" but bespoke. I'll tell you, that darned thing is more comfortable than a windbreaker (we'll I've just dropped 80 lbs, so it doesn't really fit anymore, but before that). If you are shooting HOW many weddings/year, don't you think that maybe spending $800-900 on a jacket that fits, looks GOOD, and is comfortable is worth it?

$800-900 for a jacket ? Not in my world....
When it is the only way you can get a jacket that FITS (I was, and AM a BIG guy), and you need one, you'll pay it. Once I did, I understood bespoke - they MOVE like you do. I've since seen an off the rack that is in the same colors, cut to the same style, the difference is like the difference between a kit lens and an L series. Seriously, the fit, the movement, the look and the feel are amazing. One was cheap wool blend, the other is fine wool/silk blend. One is glued, one is hand stitched. I need a really HIGH arm skye as I have very very short arms, and unless the skye is high and tight, the jacket binds, I can do jumping jacks in the jacket

I'm wondering if I can get it re-tailored to fit my new weight (maybe) - when I finally stabilize in weight, I'll buy another one, there is THAT much difference. I'm talking people stopping you to ask "where did you get that jacket?" kinda difference. I'm talking having strange women come over to "adjust your collar" (aka flirting) kinda difference - and I'm a 50 YO VERY fat guy, so not used to that kinda thing

I'm a 56 year old fat guy !

Sep 14, 2012 at 03:10 PM

marti.g3
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p.3 #18 · Venue rules

TRReichman wrote:
tonyhart wrote:
A large part of my job is to please my clients, however I'm not willing to simply roll over and accept anything that the client or the venue deems to be necessary. I think those of you who do are either:

a) mad
b) unperturbed by anything in life
c) too obsessed with the payoff to consider other factors

Interesting...

a) - You mean "English mad" right? Like "crazy" not like "u mad bro"? I think it is crazy to lose out on jobs because you aren't willing to dress respectfully to the event. I know that a lot of people are really upset about the idea that this is a job, but pretty much every job I've ever had (save selling porn!) had some kind of dress requirement. I think it is somewhat "mad" to think that this wouldn't be the case.

b) - I like this one. I don't see the point of making a big deal about a small deal.

c) - I am obsessed with the payoff since this is my job. I don't see a jacket as a factor that makes it worth not making thousands of dollars. It isn't like it is "selling out" on the core principles of my company to wear a jacket.

I think this is hilarious. The one topic that gets photographers the most angry has absolutely nothing to do with art or taking photos, it is having an opinion about what they ought to be wearing at a wedding. People get fucking pissed if you forward the idea that it might be some kind of benefit to dress in a different manner. We're photographers, not fashion moguls.

I'm going to make an assumption. If you are shooting black-tie weddings you're probably working with folks who see themselves as upper-level operators. They can afford to get what they want. In fact, they can usually afford to get EXACTLY what they want without compromising. So why choose a great photographer who is obstinate about their appearance when you can hire one that is perceived to be just as good of a photographer and also looks the part - why hire the other guy?

Photographers seem to take the stance that it is ridiculous for a client to dictate dress. I would just advocate taking a second to look at it from the other side and wonder why a paid professional would make a big deal about dressing appropriately for the job. Almost everyone on Earth has a job and a dress code, so we probably look pretty petulant when we make an issue out of it.

Hey, I love this topic. I love it because photographers make a big deal about it and refuse to do it and it makes it FAR easier for me to book very expensive jobs that other photographers can't book because their lens belt/casual shoes/rolled up sleeves/whatever is more important to them than tens of thousands per year. Call me crazy, say I roll over, I dry my eyes on fat checks.

- trr

I highly doubt that one's lack of wearing a "coat" is going to seriously affect their business.

Sep 14, 2012 at 03:12 PM

TRReichman
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p.3 #19 · Venue rules

marti.g3 wrote:
I highly doubt that one's lack of wearing a "coat" is going to seriously affect their business.

Exactly the kind of doubt that makes my job easier. You never find out when you're not on the list and why you're not on it. You're right in that you might get the first job and show up dressed inappropriately, but you aren't getting the next referral. And I've seen it happen MANY times.

This is a difficult, overcrowded, competitive market. I'm going to tell you the truth as I've seen it and as it has been reported to me by people in the know. There are not enough vendors to service high-end clientele. That's the truth. It isn't that the numbers aren't there, it is that the people who are there aren't willing to step their games up in all areas to get the jobs.

There are plenty of people that will hire you dressed the way you are now. It is cool. But when a vendor or client tries to educate you as to what it takes to move upmarket you have a choice to listen or blow them off.

- trr

Sep 14, 2012 at 03:19 PM

bwield
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p.3 #20 · Venue rules

marti.g3 wrote:

I highly doubt that one's lack of wearing a "coat" is going to seriously affect their business.

It would if the individual is not willing to wear a jacket to an event that requires a jacket.....

(also I am not insinuating that the OP is refusing to wear a jacket to the event. This is in response to the general tone of the thread)

Sep 14, 2012 at 03:19 PM

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