chez wrote:
Which is what they should have done from day one...right?
I don't know - i'm not qualified to tell good business decisions from bad . But speaking personally, i would have bought a warmed over 5D if offered alongside the 5D2, and still would now.
RobertLynn wrote:
I should've added to my comment,
I'm not saying pros won't use it (though at your statement about 7d, I have not had my 7d on but two times since I bought my markivs). I should say pros weren't the target market.
Exactly my point. The 7D is not targeted for pros but plenty of pros use it, just like they will with the D600.
artsupreme wrote:
Exactly my point. The 7D is not targeted for pros but plenty of pros use it, just like they will with the D600.
I remember this very same argument awhile back, when I was on the side of the 30D or whatever it was at the time. I stated that it was professional level equipment, and cited Monte Zucker (and if anyone here says he wasn't a pro, they've hit their head...hard) using one. I was told that just because a pro uses it, doesn't mean it's pro level equipment.
Interestingly enough, I own a nice guitar amplifier (a few actually but this one is the conversation) Mesa Triple Rectifier. It's considered a professional top end piece of gear (or entry level botique amp when compared to say a Diezel but that's not here or there). I also have gigged out with a Fender Princeton Chorus combo amp before, and also played with a Japanese made entry level Jackson guitar before...
Just because they weren't pro pieces of equipment didn't mean I wouldn't use them, but it also doesn't mean they were marketed to pros, and it doesn't mean that the professional is the targeted audience for it.
PhilDrinkwater wrote:
Canon DOES have better lenses in all but a few categories, certainly at the pro end. One of those missing ones was the 24-70, the new one of which appears to be about to take the crown. That's not "bragging" or hyperbole, but reality. It's a significant positive of the Canon camera system and a counter to those photographers who believe the sensor makes an image, when in fact it just captures it. Even my Nikon friends agree with this.
The D800 DOES have serious issues. "Terrible" screen (a pro photographer has left Nikon because of the same D4 screen). No mRAW leaving wedding/event photographers with huge files. Left focus point(s) errors (one reviewer has just changed his review from "recommended" to "not recommended" due to this issue)....Show more →
I would define the above as pure hyperbole and exaggeration according to your own definitions.
The lenses thing, you really are going to have to try and justify that cause it's a serious exaggeration. Especially with all their new batch of lenses.
I've used the D800, the screen is not terrible, again exaggeration. No MRaw is not a 'serious issue' except for, perhaps, one small niche of photographers. The left focus point has had a recall issued as far as I understand and compared to everything but a 5D3, it's still got far more and higher end working points than any canon camera under a 1 series.
Of course if the 6D specs are true, however 'bad' the D600 may be, it's a serious pro camera in comparison...
AGeoJO wrote:
Calibration of lenses is one thing but that sounds more like that body suffers from the AF issues widely reported among D800 users.
(Added after reading Phil's post ) BTW, I am not against Nikon either. I had a Nikon system before and I seriously considered a D800e to my lineup again but the AF issues and Nikon's customer service or the shortage of it proved to be too much hassle for me.
Trying to shoot a 70-200 at the far end at 1/160 with centre point, never calibrated (by her admission) will do that, you don't need the fact that a single AF point on the left doesn't work to blame the camera for it.
jorkata wrote:
As I said in a previous post, some of the differences between the D600 senor vs the 5DIII sensor are:
- better DR (likely 1 stop)
- more megapixels (ok, just 2mp more)
- no banding whatsoever
- same/better noise performance at ISO 6400
Disclaimer: these are informed predictions based on Sony and Canon sensor history.
Predictably, the D600 is the same/better than the 5DIII at ISO-6400 (1/3 stops better maybe?): link to image
Beni wrote:
That said, the lenses weren't correctly calibrated so the detail suffered badly, with that and handholding at lower speeds.
That's just the way the D800 AF system works (poorly), and the general poor quality of most Nikon lenses. Put the two together and it's a recipe for frustration.
Last time I checked I thought we made our decisions based upon the total system: camera, lenses, accessories. Seems like a lot of people here are talking like sensor geeks who enjoy pixel peeping. For me it makes no sense to whine every time another new sensor comes out from Nikon/Sony. I shoot a 5DIII with 5DII backup. These are great cameras that combined with Canon lenses do miraculous things. I will not consider jumping based on new releases from the other guys--particularly if the "reason" is some perceived benefit from a different sensor. As a total package--camera, lens and flash--the 5DIII does the trick.
And for you guys who love underexposing and pixel peeping--enjoy your economic losses when you switch.
The key point about the D600 is price. In the UK it is out at just under £2000 which isn't that wonderful. But I do wonder what the price will be in a year or so. If it went down to say £1600 or £1700 the camera would look excellent value, if it got down lower even better.
Now I've no interest in changing brands, but if I did Nikon's G lenses, flash and new bodies would certainly provide me with what I need. As someone who left Nikon in frustration six years or so ago (after 18 years loyal custom) that brand looks very competitive indeed now.
Same here - the difference between them isn't so great that you would buy the D600. That said, no-one has them in stock so i'm waiting until they actually turn up before treating the prices as final.
It's funny how the new Nikon TPFF camera seems to be generating more traffic in this one thread on the Canon forum, than on all the threads about it on the Nikon forum combined.
molson wrote:
It's funny how the new Nikon TPFF camera seems to be generating more traffic in this one thread on the Canon forum, than on all the threads about it on the Nikon forum combined.
$/performance does the trick. I don't know about other stuffs but best IQ & DR will be on buyer side for sure ...sadly there is none in canon camp side can compete this prize tag and performing close to MF IQ level...maybe, more traffic if EF mount option was available...
PhilDrinkwater wrote:
Canon DOES have better lenses in all but a few categories, certainly at the pro end. One of those missing ones was the 24-70, the new one of which appears to be about to take the crown. That's not "bragging" or hyperbole, but reality. It's a significant positive of the Canon camera system and a counter to those photographers who believe the sensor makes an image, when in fact it just captures it. Even my Nikon friends agree with this.
I bet you a grand if you shot photos with every pro lens in each systems line up, on the same camera, you wouldn't be able to tell which lens was from Nikon and which was from Canon.
daskibum wrote:
I bet you a grand if you shot photos with every pro lens in each systems line up, on the same camera, you wouldn't be able to tell which lens was from Nikon and which was from Canon.
hehe, not willing to risk $1000 on it but I personally can tell the difference between the 70-200 VR II and the 70-200 IS II at 100% magnification, if they're shot wide open and under optimal technique...the Canon version is noticeably sharper at the edges. And at 14mm the 14-24mm is noticeably sharper than any 14mm equivalent prime.
daskibum wrote:
I bet you a grand if you shot photos with every pro lens in each systems line up, on the same camera, you wouldn't be able to tell which lens was from Nikon and which was from Canon.
I'll take that bet.
Let's a test with any Nikon lens vs the Canon 24 TS-E v2.
. But speaking personally, i would have bought a warmed over 5D if offered alongside the 5D2, and still would now. 
) BTW, I am not against Nikon either. I had a Nikon system before and I seriously considered a D800e to my lineup again but the AF issues and Nikon's customer service or the shortage of it proved to be too much hassle for me.