p.1 #1 · How best to have the 'Price discussion' with clients
I've been doing a lot of thinking about how best to frame discussion and get across the value proposition to prospective clients. I've jotted down some thoughts on the topic, complete with diagrams (!) and wanted to run it by the good folks here to get some feedback. Feel free to borrow ideas, or suggest improvements as you see fit. We're all one big community here, and I really appreciate the collective support and wisdom we openly share.
p.1 #2 · How best to have the 'Price discussion' with clients
If this is solely your idea and design of the diagram, then major kudos to you. I'm definitely going to borrow the main idea here and adapt it for my uses.
p.1 #3 · How best to have the 'Price discussion' with clients
Jamesbjenkins wrote:
If this is solely your idea and design of the diagram, then major kudos to you. I'm definitely going to borrow the main idea here and adapt it for my uses.
Well done!
Thanks! Yeah, I'll take credit for the diagram(s) and for the witty use of Ps everywhere.
It's still abstract, but gets the point across more effectively (graphically) than all the arm-waving I've been doing. Notice also I leave out the concept of time: it's embedded in Product and Professionalism (mostly Product), but I think the concept of time is money is just too intangible, and I rather focus on concrete things that time yields, then focusing on that thing's value. Anyway, feel free to adapt it, print it, share it, forward it to your clients. That's the beauty of the Internet.
p.1 #7 · How best to have the 'Price discussion' with clients
I agree... really well done and thought out. I don't know if it is something I'd be telling to clients directly, but I think all of those points needs to be conveyed during your meeting and marketing with clients.... I think this is something that can be fleshed out and taught to other photographers.
p.1 #8 · How best to have the 'Price discussion' with clients
I wouldn't say that's the way to do it at all. May I shoot straight with you?
Anytime anyone does anything like that there's this implicit message that goes along with it which says, "I keep getting price shoppers and having to justify my price. Let me try to get them away from that by writing this."
Plus, your intended recipients aren't likely to wade through your post - especially as soon as they see it's purpose is to change their view of price, which they'll get as soon as they read the first paragraph.
If your purpose is to communicate your own value proposition(s), then do that. Not this.
Statistically, price is actually somewhere around Number 16 (or something like that) on the average buyer's list of purchase considerations.
But we'll often hear price being mentioned foremost. Like at the initial inquiry. Because that's what people do.
So naturally because we may hear it so often, we conclude that price must be a top priority with people.
So we think price is one of the top things to deal with.
Isn't that ironic? It turns out we're more concerned with price than our clients are.
p.1 #9 · How best to have the 'Price discussion' with clients
@TheGE: good points about whether it's appropriate to communicate in this way. One thing someone pointed out, Jesus spoke more about money than any other issue, so we're fooling ourselves if we think price doesn't matter, or that it's even way down in the list. Especially in this economy.
p.1 #10 · How best to have the 'Price discussion' with clients
I think price rises on the list in absense of a more compelling issue. Sure it matters, but it matters in context - if you leave out the context and meaning that $$ matters too much.
p.1 #11 · How best to have the 'Price discussion' with clients
@TRReichman: You're right that price matters in context. It's defined by it, and that's more or less another way of describing what I wrote in the linked OP. I also think there's a point where price also matters absolutely, as in, how many of us would shoot weddings 30-50 weeks a year for free? Or for peanuts? Somehow the context of doing it for the art, or to satisfy customers, or tell wonderful stories, etc., diminishes in significance... Strange things happen when the shoe goes on the other foot.
p.1 #13 · How best to have the 'Price discussion' with clients
Inku Yo wrote:
I think what they're saying is you have to discuss price as it relates to value. If they see the value, then price isn't a factor.
Like if you see the value in photographing their wedding, you'll do it for nothing. It's not a factor? I don't want to be argumentative and pedantic, but I think we need to be more precise with our words here: "If they see the value, then that value justifies the price." Saying it's not a factor runs into a brick wall as soon as you raise (or lower) price high enough. "I'll shoot your wedding for $1,000,000,000 USD because you see the value, right?" Even the most admiring of clients, rich as they may be, might start thinking price is a factor. Why? Because as awesome as you are, your value doesn't justify $1B for 8-12 hours of wedding photography.
Incidentally, I'm seeing a pattern here that I see in a lot of "my wedding photography is worth it" discussions, an underlying assumption that somehow money is not the issue. That's just not reality. Turn the knobs this or that way hard enough, and becomes the only issue.
p.1 #14 · How best to have the 'Price discussion' with clients
eNoBlog wrote:
Jesus spoke more about money than any other issue, so we're fooling ourselves if we think price doesn't matter, or that it's even way down in the list.
I don't know if that was his number one topic or not, but even if it was, his weren't discussions about price as a factor in buying decisions among consumers, like we're having here.
But price is NOT the number one factor on the list. It's one of the number one things customers bring up first. But the fact is, less than 20% of major purchases (not commodities) go to the lowest price.
The other factors which weigh more heavily on purchase decisions are quality, service, convenience, prestige, reliability, ease of use and others.
If price were the biggest factor, premium brands wouldn't exist. There could be no such thing as an auction. No one would place a higher bid.
eNoBlog wrote:
"If they see the value, then that value justifies the price." Saying it's not a factor runs into a brick wall as soon as you raise (or lower) price high enough. "I'll shoot your wedding for $1,000,000,000 USD because you see the value, right?" Even the most admiring of clients, rich as they may be, might start thinking price is a factor. Why? Because as awesome as you are, your value doesn't justify $1B for 8-12 hours of wedding photography.
That's correct.
It's why someone would pay $60,000 for a car but not for an ice cream cone.
So all you're saying is that the price needs to be in relation to the value the consumer perceives.
So all that means is, if you're finding price resistance at $2000 from a consumer, then maybe you need to look at why your value isn't worth $2000.
And it's also saying, if your value is $6000, and you get that price from a consumer, then there isn't any issue really, is there?
But notice that no amount of postulating about the four P's is going to change either one of those two consumer's perception.
Let me propose this direction for you:
Instead of formulas designed to attempt a change in some peoples' minds about what they wish to pay, simply find those that will pay.
p.1 #15 · How best to have the 'Price discussion' with clients
eNoBlog wrote:
Like if you see the value in photographing their wedding, you'll do it for nothing. It's not a factor? I don't want to be argumentative and pedantic, but I think we need to be more precise with our words here: "If they see the value, then that value justifies the price." Saying it's not a factor runs into a brick wall as soon as you raise (or lower) price high enough. "I'll shoot your wedding for $1,000,000,000 USD because you see the value, right?" Even the most admiring of clients, rich as they may be, might start thinking price is a factor. Why? Because as awesome as you are, your value doesn't justify $1B for 8-12 hours of wedding photography.
Incidentally, I'm seeing a pattern here that I see in a lot of "my wedding photography is worth it" discussions, an underlying assumption that somehow money is not the issue. That's just not reality. Turn the knobs this or that way hard enough, and becomes the only issue....Show more →
Just like GE said... I pay a premium for nice things because I like nice things. I find that the value in them justifies their prices.
Regardless of what you're saying now, I still would not send that to any of my prospective clients. I've NEVER had to have any discussion with any of my prospective, existing, or former clients about anything your nice diagram shows.
It's just not suited for an end customer. If you want to teach that to other photographer about how to price themselves and show value, then I'd say go for it.
p.1 #17 · How best to have the 'Price discussion' with clients
I read this earlier and thought your blog post was meant for photographers and teaching them how to sell themselves. Reading the responses now, I see it is meant for clients to read.
I agree with your blog post, but I do not agree that this should be sent to prospective clients. It just doesnt seem geared towards their perspective. It comes across much more like a lecture.
I think the four Ps are great, but for a client, they would work better if you "showed" them rather than "told" them. Personality could be found in your website design, About Me, phone/email correspondence, the consultation, etc. Professionalism will come across through timely correspondence, a FAQ or advice page, recommending a timeline with often overlooked images, testimonials, etc. Proficiency in your images could be described in blog posts ("this wedding was beautiful but the church was pitch black. I snapped this picture be jerry-rigging my own tripod out of sticks"), links to your photos featured in wedding blogs, or offering clients to view several complete weddings to view your consistency. Products would be described with benefits vs downside of Walmart/Shutterfly/etc with lots of photos and maybe a before/after of a client's living room enhanced by a canvas print.
Anyway, I love your 4 P's and definitely need to implement them more in my website. It's got me thinking a lot more about ways to intertwine them into a conversation when I meet brides.
p.1 #18 · How best to have the 'Price discussion' with clients
Can you answer the question "why should a client hire you" without talking about what it in your packages or without using hackneyed language that would apply to any competitor? If not then price is probably important. I can't imagine why anyone would want to fight the price battle instead of the purpose battle, but it is a choice you get to make.
p.1 #19 · How best to have the 'Price discussion' with clients
mirrorrim wrote:
I think the four Ps are great, but for a client, they would work better if you "showed" them rather than "told" them.
Yup, I think that's it in a nutshell. The key will be showing them when I don't know they're looking. IOW, my brand, website presentation, reputation, etc., has to be there to convey those 4 P value producers.
p.1 #20 · How best to have the 'Price discussion' with clients
TRReichman wrote:
Can you answer the question "why should a client hire you" without talking about what it in your packages or without using hackneyed language that would apply to any competitor? If not then price is probably important. I can't imagine why anyone would want to fight the price battle instead of the purpose battle, but it is a choice you get to make.
That's a very good point, Todd. I guess what I'm getting out of this thread is that the value proposition has to be self-evident. The "why should you hire me?" question at its core comes down to the last word in the question. What is it about me that makes me valuable, perhaps even essential, to them during the wedding day? Conveying that without diagrams and lots of paragraphs is tricky, but many have done it successfully.
