new Sony NEX-VG900 with M lenses?

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dakw23
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p.7 #1 · new Sony NEX-VG900 with M lenses?

joelRichards wrote:
Any surprises shot wide-open with the 28?

Yes, but it's not pretty. This is a shame given how much this lens improved on the 5N versus the 5.

2013 © dakw23

Nov 15, 2012 at 12:36 AM

sebboh
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p.7 #2 · new Sony NEX-VG900 with M lenses?

dakw23 wrote:
A word about adaptors: I'm using the Hawks helicord model, and it doesn't look to have anything which would project further inside the mount than the three lips to the bayonet. I also have the Metabones adpator, but this doesn't physically attach to the camera! This looks to be due to a small screw head shown below.

looks like the screw has come loose to the point that it obstructs mounting rather than just acting as a rotation stop. i would just tighten it and see if you can mount it then.

looking forward to more shots!

Nov 15, 2012 at 01:04 AM

douglasf13
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p.7 #3 · new Sony NEX-VG900 with M lenses?

dakw23 wrote:
joelRichards wrote:
Any surprises shot wide-open with the 28?

Yes, but it's not pretty. This is a shame given how much this lens improved on the 5N versus the 5.

Yikes, that reminds me of the SLR Magic (Fujian) 35/1.7 lens or something.

Nov 15, 2012 at 01:18 AM

joelRichards
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p.7 #4 · new Sony NEX-VG900 with M lenses?

Thanks, dakw23! Couple quick questions: is this the whole frame or a crop? Is that dark corner an overhang of some kind or the hard edge of the image circle? If its the hard edge it looks like the lens is severely de-centered somehow.

Nov 15, 2012 at 01:23 AM

dakw23
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p.7 #5 · new Sony NEX-VG900 with M lenses?

joelRichards wrote:
Thanks, dakw23! Couple quick questions: is this the whole frame or a crop? Is that dark corner an overhang of some kind or the hard edge of the image circle? If its the hard edge it looks like the lens is severely de-centered somehow.

It's the whole frame and that's just a tree in the top right. Using the ZA 135 Sonnar with the LA-EA2 (which has a noticeably restricted opening relative to the LA-EA3) does give black corners though - will need to take it outside before I can show some decent sample for that lens though.

Nov 15, 2012 at 02:30 AM

Taylor Sherman
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p.7 #6 · new Sony NEX-VG900 with M lenses?

Ooh, hmm. That (the 28 wide-open) is indeed not pretty from a usability standpoint. I kind of like the results but it's not something I'd want to be stuck with permanently. And yeah, it seems like something a cheap cctv lens on APS could/would produce.

Nov 15, 2012 at 06:29 AM

briantho
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p.7 #7 · new Sony NEX-VG900 with M lenses?

The corners are smeared, but that is to be expected knowing how the 21 Biogon performs on an APS-C camera, but I still don't get the comments you guys make.

If you shoot an infinity scene with mixed close and far objects at f2.8 with a Biogon 28mm on a FF camera, the above result is exactly what is to be expected. Who would shoot a scene like that WO? On the VG900, I'd use f11.

I expect the 28 Distagon to work much better on the VG900, but still, if you were to shoot the above scene WO with any 28mm, it will always look like crap.

Nov 15, 2012 at 11:07 AM

joelRichards
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p.7 #8 · new Sony NEX-VG900 with M lenses?

briantho, you may be right about it being a challenging scene from wide angle perspective but I think the assessment that the lens falls apart wide open is still fair. Not to say that it can't be useful on the VG900 but there seem to be some limitations. Hopefully dakw23 and the other new VG900 owners will continue to be kind enough to share their tests with us. I do think the 28mm would look much better on video--most of the uglies would be cut out my a 16:9 crop--but if I buy a VG900 it would be as much for stills for video.

Nov 15, 2012 at 02:35 PM

douglasf13
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p.7 #9 · new Sony NEX-VG900 with M lenses?

briantho wrote:
The corners are smeared, but that is to be expected knowing how the 21 Biogon performs on an APS-C camera, but I still don't get the comments you guys make.

If you shoot an infinity scene with mixed close and far objects at f2.8 with a Biogon 28mm on a FF camera, the above result is exactly what is to be expected. Who would shoot a scene like that WO? On the VG900, I'd use f11.

I expect the 28 Distagon to work much better on the VG900, but still, if you were to shoot the above scene WO with any 28mm, it will always look like crap.

I think many of us were curious to see if Sony addressed any of the issues from M lenses with the VG900, compared to the Nex still cameras, and, at least in terms of smearing, it appears they haven't. I'd be intersted to see a CornerFix profile shot made, in order to judge the color shift.

That shot with the 28 wide open does not show the normal amount of transition from in focus to out of focus on a full frame sensor with a 28mm lens at f2.8. As someone else mentioned, it looks like what you get when you use some CCTV lenses on aps-c. Cool effect, but it isn't supposed to look like that. My 28/2.8 on the M9 doesn't look like that.

Of course, we'll need a lot more tests to be sure, but things aren't looking encouraging when it comes to M wides on the VG900.

Nov 15, 2012 at 04:45 PM

rscheffler
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p.7 #10 · new Sony NEX-VG900 with M lenses?

Regarding the ZM28.... it's perhaps not a 'typical' modern Zeiss lens in terms of across the frame sharpness. Please have a look at its MTF curves. I tested one on the M9 a while ago and at wider apertures it's not sharp at the edges/corners when photographing flat objects filling the frame. It has great contrast and centrally it destroys the CV28/2, but it still needs to be stopped down a fair amount to bring up the edges. I haven't used it enough to know whether or not the VG900 stopped down sample is similar, in terms of edge sharpness, compared to the M9. M-mount 28mm options are fairly limited, it seems, if you want great across the frame performance at wider apertures. It's really just the two Leicas, at least in terms of currently in production lenses...

Nov 15, 2012 at 07:29 PM

douglasf13
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p.7 #11 · new Sony NEX-VG900 with M lenses?

rscheffler wrote:
Regarding the ZM28.... it's perhaps not a 'typical' modern Zeiss lens in terms of across the frame sharpness. Please have a look at its MTF curves. I tested one on the M9 a while ago and at wider apertures it's not sharp at the edges/corners when photographing flat objects filling the frame. It has great contrast and centrally it destroys the CV28/2, but it still needs to be stopped down a fair amount to bring up the edges. I haven't used it enough to know whether or not the VG900 stopped down sample is similar, in terms of edge sharpness, compared to the M9. M-mount 28mm options are fairly limited, it seems, if you want great across the frame performance at wider apertures. It's really just the two Leicas, at least in terms of currently in production lenses...

Absolutely, but I still don't think it should look like the example posted, especially at web size. I'd say it's pretty clearly a matter of the sensor and lens not matching up well, because that sharpness falloff is pretty extreme.

Nov 15, 2012 at 11:17 PM

dakw23
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p.7 #12 · new Sony NEX-VG900 with M lenses?

Hi everyone - I'm back from the first half of a fun day shooting with the VG900. So far I have 1.5 Gb of JPEGs from the camera; I'm planning to upload these to Dropbox to avoid polluting my Flickr stream with special-interest images.

One problem - I will easily exceed the storage of my Dropbox account with these pictures, so I would therefore like to appeal (to non-Dropbox users) to offer to be referred by me to the service, which will increase my account size. If you're willing please send me a PM with your email address. You'll then get a mail back from Dropbox asking you to sign up. Thanks!

Some good news: I was able to borrow a Leica 28mm Elmarit f/2.8 from Willoughby's, and the sample images appear to be much better than those shot with the ZM Biogon 28mm/2.8.

Stay tuned for this evening's uploads...

Nov 17, 2012 at 06:25 PM

dakw23
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p.7 #13 · new Sony NEX-VG900 with M lenses?

dakw23 wrote:
Hi everyone - I'm back from the first half of a fun day shooting with the VG900. So far I have 1.5 Gb of JPEGs from the camera; I'm planning to upload these to Dropbox to avoid polluting my Flickr stream with special-interest images.

One problem - I will easily exceed the storage of my Dropbox account with these pictures, so I would therefore like to appeal (to non-Dropbox users) to offer to be referred by me to the service, which will increase my account size. If you're willing please send me a PM with your email address. You'll then get a mail back from Dropbox asking you to sign up. Thanks!

Some good news: I was able to borrow a Leica 28mm Elmarit f/2.8 from Willoughby's, and the sample images appear to be much better than those shot with the ZM Biogon 28mm/2.8.

Stay tuned for this evening's uploads...

... the images are available from this link, which should be publicly accessible: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/02zwzgmkz2p727i/Bw9Lv_AJUO

Things to note:
- The folders are nested, so you might need to drill down a bit
- I've added some samples from the from the Summicron-M 35mm f/2 ASPH (which is in my collection but I didn't post any samples yet as it's pretty similar to the Summilux-M 35mm f/1.4 ASPH (sinking element) stopped down).
- If the file name ends in 'macro' I have used the Hawk's adaptor to achieve a closer focussing distance.
- To see the full sized sample, click the box with the outward-facing arrows in the bottom right.

There are a number of aperture series, conducted on tripod where possible. This should allow you to make easier comparisons between the magnified sections of the images.

I'll avoid commenting on the samples for now, and tomorrow will post some thoughts on the VG900 as a stills camera.

P.S. Thanks to those who signed up for Dropbox, I have enough storage now so no need for extra volunteers.

Nov 17, 2012 at 11:06 PM

joelRichards
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p.7 #14 · new Sony NEX-VG900 with M lenses?

Downloading now! thank you, thank you, thank you.

Nov 17, 2012 at 11:55 PM

rscheffler
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p.7 #15 · new Sony NEX-VG900 with M lenses?

Thanks for these. I still think the 21SEM doesn't look right. Shouldn't be smearing at the edges as much as it is in the f/5.6 and wider fountain scene... The 15 also looks pretty bad.

Nov 18, 2012 at 12:51 AM

artur5
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p.7 #16 · new Sony NEX-VG900 with M lenses?

Thanks a lot, dakw23.
The CV15 looking rather bad in the edges/corners isn't a surprise. It's a great lens for the price but we know that in FF cameras it shows clear shortcomings. It has a lot of field curvature as well. Even on my Ricoh GXR -a crop sensor optimized for M lenses- I can't get perfectly sharp corners and centre at once. A compromised solution is to front focus quite a bit, in order to get the whole frame O.K. but not perfect. In a FF sensor that problem must be way worse.
Good news for the VG900 is that color fringing seems to be minimal, even with extreme WA glass. Remember those terrible purple corners with the NEX-7 and the CV15 or the Biogon 21 ?..
Bad news is corner smearing. It seems that the lower pixel density of this sensor ( compared to a NEX-7 ) won't be enough to make the Sony VG900 a perfectly usable FF mirrorless for RF wides. Hence, in that aspect, a gloomy foreboding for a possible FF NEX-9.
How much do you say for the new Leica M ?. $7000 ?

Oh well ..

Nov 18, 2012 at 01:13 PM

Emacs
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p.7 #17 · new Sony NEX-VG900 with M lenses?

artur5 wrote: Hence, in that aspect, a gloomy foreboding for a possible FF NEX-9.

Just curious: NEX-9 may be, but sony has recently patented the new sensor tech with light traps: sensor with holes instead of microlenses that should effectively solve angle of incedence problem as well as decrease the problem where light is being reflected from sensor and thus introduces flares and contrast loss. That should be even more tolerant than film.

Nov 18, 2012 at 01:25 PM

dakw23
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p.7 #18 · new Sony NEX-VG900 with M lenses?

artur5 wrote:
Thanks a lot, dakw23.
The CV15 looking rather bad in the edges/corners isn't a surprise. It's a great lens for the price but we know that in FF cameras it shows clear shortcomings. It has a lot of field curvature as well. Even on my Ricoh GXR -a crop sensor optimized for M lenses- I can't get perfectly sharp corners and centre at once. A compromised solution is to front focus quite a bit, in order to get the whole frame O.K. but not perfect. In a FF sensor that problem must be way worse.
Good news for the VG900 is that color fringing seems to be minimal, even with extreme WA glass. Remember those terrible purple corners with the NEX-7 and the CV15 or the Biogon 21 ?..
Bad news is corner smearing. It seems that the lower pixel density of this sensor ( compared to a NEX-7 ) won't be enough to make the Sony VG900 a perfectly usable FF mirrorless for RF wides. Hence, in that aspect, a gloomy foreboding for a possible FF NEX-9.
How much do you say for the new Leica M ?. $7000 ?

Oh well ..

Indeed, and I have now returned* the VG900 so that's the end of the sample images (from me at least). I think I could use a NEX-9 with the same sensor (minus the AA filter in case that helps with corner resolution), as the CV 15 and SEM 21 are good/stunning performers on my existing 5N and they're as wide as I need in situation I have so far encountered. I'm going to miss some of the images I took with the SX 35 & SC 75.

What really put me off were the usability issues, especially with Alpha lenses. More about that this evening...

* Adorama's return policy does not cover video cameras, but in this case I negotiated the possible return of this item before purchase. Credit to them for being good to their word - but be careful if you try to do the same.

Nov 18, 2012 at 03:47 PM

sebboh
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p.7 #19 · new Sony NEX-VG900 with M lenses?

i think i could live with the summilux on a NEX-9 with that sensor. definitely some issues, but livable. i don't need anything wider than 35mm. i am surprised that 75mm didn't perform better though, i wouldn't have expected it to have problems.

Nov 18, 2012 at 04:25 PM

dakw23
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p.7 #20 · new Sony NEX-VG900 with M lenses?

sebboh wrote:
i think i could live with the summilux on a NEX-9 with that sensor. definitely some issues, but livable. i don't need anything wider than 35mm. i am surprised that 75mm didn't perform better though, i wouldn't have expected it to have problems.

Problems with the 75mm, can you be more specific? Note in the Bethesda fountain series the focus point is on the trees behind the angel, so looking at the bricks in the bottom right won't be a good indication of sharpness at f/2, due to DoF.

Nov 18, 2012 at 06:41 PM

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