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Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)
  
 
HelenaN
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p.89 #1 · p.89 #1 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


So sorry to hear that Martin! Yesterday when I was at the Christmas market it was -15C and I took 35 photos with RX1. No problems whatsoever and the battery indicator still showed three bars of charge! My 5D was in the bag most of the time, "took" only 10 shots and the battery was empty when I got home (it was fully charged before I left)...

It's just as cold today and I intend to go for a long walk. Sure hope I won't get any issues with the camera.



Dec 14, 2012 at 09:46 AM
Makten
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p.89 #2 · p.89 #2 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


I never looked at the battery indicator, and since the camera didn't die, I don't think that was the problem. Possibly something happened with the card during the writing that made the camera malfunction after that. I just formatted it and it took like 20-30 seconds (16 Gb), which seems a bit too long. I'll try an other card if it happens again.


Dec 14, 2012 at 10:07 AM
alundeb
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p.89 #3 · p.89 #3 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


What is the temperature spec for the card you were using? I only use cards rated for -25 C.



Dec 14, 2012 at 10:13 AM
SimonBl
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p.89 #4 · p.89 #4 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


Some comments from me now on things that I DON'T like, now that I've had the RX1 for a couple of days, please take them as (obviously) my personal views and feel free to discuss, disagree or correct me!

1) The compulsory zoom when using the focus peaking function is mad. I do hope Sony change this, or at least make it an option. I love the focus peaking, but this is just annoying as i have to recompose if my focus point isn't centre of screen.

2) The manual is terrible, it spends more time telling you how to,put the battery in, than how the HDR function works, or what DMF means - still don't know that one. I had to check the online version to find out how to use the Teleconverter and smart zoom function. Which are useless, by the way, if you just shoot RAW. Obvious when you think about it, but :-). Some of the builtin help is good, but most of it just states the obvious.

3) I wish that the smiley face icons and other unused 'gimmicky' tools wouldn't show on the display when they're off. Just saying :-)

4) The battery life is pretty poor, but I am coming from a Canon DSLR (but also a Canon S100), you most definitely need a spare. Not supplying a proper charger is pretty low too.

5) The strap is of pretty average quality, again, just my view, may beige been spoilt.

6) The leather case isn't terribly functional, it's in two pieces, so when you remove the top and lens section, you've gotta hang onto it somehow. Also, you can't plug the cables in with the 'base' of the case on.

7) If you think you're going to get to shoot in creamy 1080/60p (as per the blurb that states 1080/50 or 1080/60 and lower) in Australia, forget it. Tucked away in the manual, it tells you to look in the bottom plate on the camera and see if you have a '50i' or a '60i'. Yup, mine is a 50i and that's the most it will do.

8) We don't even get an Oz power cord for the USB block charger, it's the double round pin European one in the box. Couldn't spare the extra couple of bucks, Sony?

That said, and I know I'm being picky, but i do believe in sharing the warts and all. That all said, I do like the camera and will be keeping it!

Oh yeah, I won't even touch on the price of the accessories! $180 for a lens hood? FFS Sony!



Dec 14, 2012 at 10:34 AM
Makten
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p.89 #5 · p.89 #5 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


alundeb wrote:
What is the temperature spec for the card you were using? I only use cards rated for -25 C.


No idea, it's a simple 16 Gb Sandisc Ultra 30 Mb/sec. Not that I understand why and how low temperature could effect a memory card at all.



Dec 14, 2012 at 10:46 AM
carstenw
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p.89 #6 · p.89 #6 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


I wonder if you have a fake SanDisk?


Dec 14, 2012 at 10:51 AM
Makten
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p.89 #7 · p.89 #7 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


carstenw wrote:
I wonder if you have a fake SanDisk?


Probably not since I bought it in the camera store.



Dec 14, 2012 at 11:01 AM
eosfun
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p.89 #8 · p.89 #8 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


I wouldn't be surprised if temperature has nothing to do with it at all. In my experience trouble with cards very often have to do with the fact that they have been shared between different devices or formatted in a card reader connected to a computer. Martin, did you buy the card fresh with the camera? Or is it a card that you already owned and have been using in another camera in the past?


Dec 14, 2012 at 11:06 AM
alundeb
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p.89 #9 · p.89 #9 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


Makten wrote:
No idea, it's a simple 16 Gb Sandisc Ultra 30 Mb/sec. Not that I understand why and how low temperature could effect a memory card at all.


I am an electronics engineer and design electronics for operation in extended temperature ranges. Properties of all semiconductors are very temperature dependant. In a transistor, the current amplification and rise and fall times of a transition vary greatly with temperature. It affects both the timing on the interface, and the internal operation of the flash device.

For the products from our company, it would be a disaster if I put a flash memory device specified only for 0C in a product specified for -40C. I know that since I have run tests that failed in low temp, but was OK in normal temperature. These are repeatable and reproducible tests. There is a reason why industry grade components (-40C) exist at all and are more expensive than consumer grade (0C), and that Mil Spec (-55C) is generally not available.

In addition to that, the mechanical interface for the SD card will be unstable below -20C. The mechanical properties of metal changes. The spring load on the contact fingers will not give the correct pressure for good contact.



Dec 14, 2012 at 11:30 AM
carstenw
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p.89 #10 · p.89 #10 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


Makten wrote:
Probably not since I bought it in the camera store.


SanDisk fakes are extremely widespread. I recall seeing a figure of 30% recently, and many larger stores have also fallen prey to them. Recently they were being sold though Amazon, for example. If your card is behaving strangely in some way, it might be worth checking out if it is a fake.



Dec 14, 2012 at 11:42 AM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



alundeb
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p.89 #11 · p.89 #11 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


More on temperature and semiconductors:

In a production batch, there are significant sample variations for the temperature where the device fails. Semiconductor manufacturers use different approaches to deal with marketing and classification.

One approach is to produce everything for say -25 C and test all devices. Those that don't fail are sold as -25 C devices, and those that fail somewhere between 0 C and 25 C are sold as 0C devices. They may also skip the testing altogether as long as they got the required quantity of confirmed low temp units. So when you buy an unclassified or 0C device, there is a great chance it will work at temperatures well below 0C.



Dec 14, 2012 at 12:30 PM
Makten
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p.89 #12 · p.89 #12 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


So, how do I buy a card that should withstand -25C?


Dec 14, 2012 at 01:28 PM
alundeb
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p.89 #13 · p.89 #13 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


Those I know about:

Lexar Premium
Lexar Professional
SanDisk Extreme
SanDisk Extreme Pro



Dec 14, 2012 at 01:50 PM
Makten
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p.89 #14 · p.89 #14 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


alundeb wrote:
Those I know about:

Lexar Premium
Lexar Professional
SanDisk Extreme
SanDisk Extreme Pro


Sandisc claims that the Ultra 16 Gb should operate at -25C. Look under "specifications":
http://www.sandisk.com/products/memory-cards/sd/ultra-uhs-1-class10-30mbs/?capacity=16GB



Dec 14, 2012 at 01:52 PM
HelenaN
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p.89 #15 · p.89 #15 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


Now I'm back from a 2,5 hour walk in beautiful winter weather. This doesn't have anything to do with Makten's problem, but I wanted to say that I have just switched battery for the first time since I got the camera three days ago. I got approx. 250 photos from one charge, and most of them taken in -10C or colder, which I think is pretty good. It may be worth mentioning that this battery has been used in RX100 before I got RX1. I have heard that batteries need to be charged a few times before they reach their optimal performance.


Dec 14, 2012 at 02:31 PM
alundeb
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p.89 #16 · p.89 #16 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


Makten wrote:
Sandisc claims that the Ultra 16 Gb should operate at -25C. Look under "specifications":
http://www.sandisk.com/products/memory-cards/sd/ultra-uhs-1-class10-30mbs/?capacity=16GB


You should be covered with the card then.

The camera itself is only specified for "Approx. 0 to 40" in the brochure. Still we expect such items to be usable a bit lower. Only -5 is a bit early for failure, be it card or camera.



Dec 14, 2012 at 02:34 PM
rx-play
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p.89 #17 · p.89 #17 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


Hi all, I am afraid I haven't been able to test the Sandisk Extreme Pro in 0-degree weather, but the camera and I are surely having lots of fun regardless without any trouble. I've posted some of my initial thoughts and sample images on my personal blog in case you are interested (including compatibility with the Elinchrom Skyport wireless system)

http://rx-play.com



Dec 14, 2012 at 02:48 PM
Makten
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p.89 #18 · p.89 #18 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


alundeb wrote:
You should be covered with the card then.

The camera itself is only specified for "Approx. 0 to 40" in the brochure. Still we expect such items to be usable a bit lower. Only -5 is a bit early for failure, be it card or camera.


I still have no idea of if it was the card or the camera or the battery, so it's not much I can do. I've had batteries die in cold conditions, but never any problems with other cameras down to -25C or so, except for the LCD being a bit slow.



Dec 14, 2012 at 03:16 PM
rx-play
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p.89 #19 · p.89 #19 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


By the way, I tried the "wireless" option in the flash settings. Well, it certainly isn't a "commander" mode, the flash certainly fires away and is visible in the photo Anyway, I'd guess that it's supposed to have another flash supplement the on-camera flash. Any good links on how the "wireless" flash function works on the RX1 and what is deemed compatible?

Thanks!



Dec 14, 2012 at 04:08 PM
michaelwatkins
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p.89 #20 · p.89 #20 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


HelenaN wrote:
Now I'm back from a 2,5 hour walk in beautiful winter weather. This doesn't have anything to do with Makten's problem, but I wanted to say that I have just switched battery for the first time since I got the camera three days ago. I got approx. 250 photos from one charge, and most of them taken in -10C or colder, which I think is pretty good.


That isn't pretty good, that is excellent.

Such performance makes me wonder how the camera was stored. Was it exposed to the elements or kept in a nice warm pocket when not being used? If the sun warmed your face, the camera might have benefited from some warming. (250 shots sounds like it was used all the time though)

At 20C the camera is supposed to deliver ~ 250 exposures. I'd expect a lot less at -10C.

It may be worth mentioning that this battery has been used in RX100 before I got RX1. I have heard that batteries need to be charged a few times before they reach their optimal performance.

Not so much with lithium ion packs. They don't exhibit memory like NiCDs (outdated now thankfully) and do not need to be fully cycled to maintain capacity like NiMH (consumer rechargeable cells found everywhere).

Anyway, great report!



Dec 14, 2012 at 06:05 PM
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