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Archive 2012 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)
  
 
millsart
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p.65 #1 · p.65 #1 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


carstenw wrote:
Not necessarily, unfortunately.

Why on earth would you want this on a digital camera? Merging two photos later can be done with much more accuracy.




I've owned and shot Nikon professionally for years and while many of my bodies do have the multiple exposure mode, I've never once used it.

Not knocking those who enjoy the feature, but I would have to bet its one of the least used features on any digital cameras.

Its something that certainly is easier in post, and while it does have its place for things like adding a zoomed in, or better exposed moon to a night shot etc, just don't see it being used much in camera, especially with a 35mm fixed lens. Really with that mode as well, your going to want to use a tripod anyways, and I can't see many putting a compact RX1 onto a tripod



Oct 21, 2012 at 07:39 PM
Kyndel
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p.65 #2 · p.65 #2 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


Makten wrote:
It is about the same price as the D600 with a ZF 35/2.

Can the D600 do 1/8000 second? No.
Does the D600 have inbuilt image stabilization? No.

I seriously don't understand why the price is a problem. You are asking for a minimal camera that can do everything that a larger camera can, at the same price. How on earth would that be possible?


You do not get my point, try to read it again, then perhaps.....



Oct 21, 2012 at 08:13 PM
Kyndel
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p.65 #3 · p.65 #3 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


millsart wrote:
I've owned and shot Nikon professionally for years and while many of my bodies do have the multiple exposure mode, I've never once used it.

Not knocking those who enjoy the feature, but I would have to bet its one of the least used features on any digital cameras.

Its something that certainly is easier in post, and while it does have its place for things like adding a zoomed in, or better exposed moon to a night shot etc, just don't see it being used much in camera, especially with a 35mm fixed lens. Really with that mode as well, your
...Show more

I use it, but you do not have to , and I like it "in-camera"



Oct 21, 2012 at 08:14 PM
Kyndel
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p.65 #4 · p.65 #4 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


carstenw wrote:
Not necessarily, unfortunately.

Why on earth would you want this on a digital camera? Merging two photos later can be done with much more accuracy.



Because I like it done in-camera= So simple is that, and I joined a course with Tony Sweet with that purpose, and he is a master in that - done in-camera.

But you do not have to love it



Oct 21, 2012 at 08:17 PM
Kyndel
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p.65 #5 · p.65 #5 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


I can not see any problems about a strong need for more accuracy here:





http://www.flickriver.com/photos/episa/5339957550/

But of course some love to PP and some love to do it in-camera.

Let it go, we are different people



Oct 21, 2012 at 08:23 PM
michaelwatkins
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p.65 #6 · p.65 #6 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


Kyndel wrote:
I will wait and look for a better featured camera for a bit lower price, and it is interesting if this will be Sony or others will take the challenge too. But the trend is fine.


Even if Sony (doubtful) or others (somewhat doubtful over the next 12-18 months) come up with a competitive challenge to the RX1, it seems unlikely we'll see a more feature laden camera for significantly less than the RX1 is priced at, unless a sea change occurs in the pricing of full frame sensors.

If we are talking the same genre of camera, a compact full frame fixed lens camera, there is no "trend" to measure at present unless we sneak the Fujifilm X100 into the evaluation. A trend can't be assumed from a single point of reference. One can hope a trend emerges but as of today hope is all that is available towards that end.



Oct 21, 2012 at 08:34 PM
Kyndel
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p.65 #7 · p.65 #7 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


michaelwatkins wrote:
Even if Sony (doubtful) or others (somewhat doubtful over the next 12-18 months) come up with a competitive challenge to the RX1, it seems unlikely we'll see a more feature laden camera for significantly less than the RX1 is priced at, unless a sea change occurs in the pricing of full frame sensors.

If we are talking the same genre of camera, a compact full frame fixed lens camera, there is no "trend" to measure at present unless we sneak the Fujifilm X100 into the evaluation. A trend can't be assumed from a single point of reference. One can hope a
...Show more

What I meant was, that we get better and better IQ from smaller and smaller cameras- Olympus, Fuji, Sony, you name it.



Oct 21, 2012 at 08:41 PM
Kibsgaard
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p.65 #8 · p.65 #8 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


Kyndel wrote:
You do not get my point, try to read it again, then perhaps.....


It is always dangerous to interpretate what others mean , but for me the point is easy to get.


If you are starting almost from "scratch" so is this lens worth much, but if you have photographed seriously long, then you have probably the 35mm focal length, and I think it is mostly experienced photographers who will buy this camera - experienced photographers , which is already covered by the focal length.

I have 24-70 f 2.8 + 35-70 f 2.8 + Zeiss 35mm f/2.0 (for D3x) + 24mm f/1.4 to also use on APS-C (D7000) , and I am sure I am not alone in having covered this focal lenght a lot, so the lens on this Sony does not pull so much to me, but I need a very good AF and it is right, that sometimes you need 1/8000 second, also for f. 2.0, even you do not get it from D600, but this camera is about the half in price !, and I think this is also the point

I also shoot with Oly E-M 5, and the in-camera "VR" is very usefull and you can get addicted to that, so this is also a valid point when you have to pay so much.

I am still very interested in this camera, but I think it is a valid point that the price is set to high(at least in Europe)




Oct 21, 2012 at 08:54 PM
Weasel_Loader
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p.65 #9 · p.65 #9 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


The more read about the RX1, the more I feel it fits my shooting. I have no problem with the price of the camera. Got rid of my D700 and have been pretty happy with the OM-D. Love the small form factor of m4/3, but miss the larger sensor.

Wish Sony would price the accessories a little lower. The EVF isn't priced too bad if it's better than my OM-D viewfinder (which isn't too shabby), but the OFV, thumb rest, hood, and case are crazy. If I do end up with an RX1, the EVF will probably be the only Sony accessory I'll buy. If third parties develop a good enough hood and case, I'd rather go that route.



Oct 21, 2012 at 09:13 PM
carstenw
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p.65 #10 · p.65 #10 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


Kyndel wrote:
Because I like it done in-camera= So simple is that, and I joined a course with Tony Sweet with that purpose, and he is a master in that - done in-camera.

But you do not have to love it


I am just surprised that you would reject a camera because it is missing. To me, and I guess to many or even most people, I would never use such a feature.


Edited on Oct 21, 2012 at 09:30 PM · View previous versions



Oct 21, 2012 at 09:28 PM
 

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Kyndel
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p.65 #11 · p.65 #11 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


Weasel_Loader wrote:
The more read about the RX1, the more I feel it fits my shooting. I have no problem with the price of the camera. Got rid of my D700 and have been pretty happy with the OM-D. Love the small form factor of m4/3, but miss the larger sensor.

Wish Sony would price the accessories a little lower. The EVF isn't priced too bad if it's better than my OM-D viewfinder (which isn't too shabby), but the OFV, thumb rest, hood, and case are crazy. If I do end up with an RX1, the EVF will probably be the only Sony
...Show more

But would you pay short of 5.000 dollars for it - the camera and the electronick VF + the hood.? - and to put perspective to it you can get the D600 for about the half ?



Oct 21, 2012 at 09:30 PM
carstenw
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p.65 #12 · p.65 #12 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


Kyndel wrote:
you can get the D600 for about the half ?


Without a lens, yes.



Oct 21, 2012 at 09:31 PM
Kyndel
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p.65 #13 · p.65 #13 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


carstenw wrote:
I am just surprised that you would reject a camera because it is missing. To me, and I guess to many or even most people, I would never use such a feature.


What about reading what I wrote - did I wrote this was the only thing ?

....and I wrote it because, despite the price is spared some things away.



Oct 21, 2012 at 09:32 PM
Kyndel
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p.65 #14 · p.65 #14 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


decline

Edited on Oct 21, 2012 at 09:42 PM · View previous versions



Oct 21, 2012 at 09:34 PM
Uncle Mike
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p.65 #15 · p.65 #15 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


alundeb wrote:
Take a look at the Zeiss 24mm f/1.8 lens for the native E-mount and you get an idea.


I guess I haven't been paying close attention to the Sony "E" lens lineup, but damn, $1100 is really EXPENSIVE for a lens that's only f/1.8 and only has to cover an APS-C imaging circle. And it doesn't even have image stabilization.



Oct 21, 2012 at 09:35 PM
sebboh
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p.65 #16 · p.65 #16 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


Kyndel wrote:
But would you pay short of 5.000 dollars for it - the camera and the electronick VF + the hood.? - and to put perspective to it you can get the D600 for about the half ?


where did that number come from? the RX1 + evf $3200.

you can get non sony versions of the other extras for ~$20 each



Oct 21, 2012 at 09:45 PM
Kyndel
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p.65 #17 · p.65 #17 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


sebboh wrote:
where did that number come from? the RX1 + evf $3200.

you can get non sony versions of the other extras for ~$20 each


It was criticized was the price in Europe and so I asked if you would pay the price we have here in Europe, if you simultaneously - for comparison - could get D600 for half (just as you do other comparisons) - just as perspective for the price Sony has set in Europe .




Oct 21, 2012 at 09:52 PM
sebboh
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p.65 #18 · p.65 #18 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)




It was criticized was the price in Europe and so I asked if you would pay the price we have here in Europe, if you simultaneously - for comparison - could get D600 for half (just as you do other comparisons) - just as perspective for the price Sony has set in Europe .



oh, sure that price is ridiculous. you practically get a used m9 and zm 35/2 for that, which i think is a much better comparison how many people are choosing between an RX1 and D600? totally different types of cameras.

i think the european price will chance rapidly though unless they can't keep up with demand.



Oct 21, 2012 at 10:03 PM
philip_pj
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p.65 #19 · p.65 #19 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


and Uncle, all the new CZ E mounters will be similar in price, I understand. Quality costs, at least this kind of quality...viz Leica. Nothing to do with IC, also.

The RX1 will succeed/fail on the perceived quality/rendering it turns out, and the lens is absolutely paramount obviously. Expect it to be somewhat eccentric and well differentiated from 'normal' lenses - a boutique look for the target market of connoisseurs. For this reason the 'I already have a 35/2' argument is as relevant as the user of a 5DII with an EF 35/2 dismissing a Leica Summicron 35/2, i.e. not at all.

There are enough examples of the new sensor around now to feel very sure it is a cracker - not only more DR, but more brilliant colour, better colour separation, 5DII noise levels at mid-high ISO, and this is before final firmware and profiles tweaking.

To paraphrase von Mises: 'there are no prices outside the market', right now RX1 orders are strong. If the camera does not measure up, prices will fall, this applies to the accessories most certainly. If in time, the EVF is seen as essential, dealers may do better deals for 'camera plus EVF and hood' at point of sale. I would expect aftermarket hoods also, for sensible money.



Oct 21, 2012 at 10:06 PM
Weasel_Loader
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p.65 #20 · p.65 #20 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)


Kyndel wrote:
But would you pay short of 5.000 dollars for it - the camera and the electronick VF + the hood.? - and to put perspective to it you can get the D600 for about the half ?


Totally missing the point of this camera. Like previously stated by many here, I doubt anyone is deciding between a full frame DSLR and the RX1. I don't miss my D700 with all the lenses and weight. Much prefer smaller cameras since I find more opportunities to shoot with them. They also don't attract the attention DSLRs do which totally destroys the candid people photos I love so much.



Oct 21, 2012 at 10:15 PM
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