Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

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melcat
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p.56 #1 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

alundeb wrote:
I need reasons not to get this camera, but they are hard to find cost aside.

How about the stupid, stupid mechanical shutter release cable? I really thought I was finished with these wretched things in 2008 when I retired my film kit. At least I didn't sell my nice teflon-lined one; it was in the tub of stuff to go on eBay.

Otherwise, it's hard to find anything wrong with this camera. I guess there could be a mechanical ISO dial, but you could argue against it on the grounds of clutter.

I do *not* want to see a built-in EVF and I don't think I'd buy the accessory one, for the reason Lloyd Chambers would: age-related presbyopia. In my case, I either wear contacts and can't see close-up without dioptric help, or I wear progressive multifocals and can't use a viewfinder with them. An LCD-only camera is just exactly what I want for the days when I am not expecting to take photos. (I think - I've never owned one other than my phone. It better be a good screen.)

Sep 30, 2012 at 11:17 AM

uscmatt99
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p.56 #2 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

I'd like to humbly request that people stop posting rational arguments for and against this camera, so we can move on to calling it an overpriced point and shoot

In all seriousness, I can't get this camera out of my mind. I though I was all set with my GXR and collection of M-mount glass, waiting for the perfect Leica to arrive, and now it pretty much has! I would have the financial fortitude for such a purchase after selling some F-mount glass, but the RX-1 has me second guessing. From the few provided samples Sony has provided, the rendering of this little lens-sensor combo is wonderful. I'd love to see more samples in the hands of the Alt crowd, but I'm essentially already sold. My favorite DSLR combo is the trusty D700 and a ZF.2 35/1.4, but it's a beast to carry and my keeper rate on non-static subjects is less than desirable.

To echo the thoughts of others, I really wish they had engineered a tilt-LCD into the body. I'm fine without a built-in EVF, and actually prefer keeping the form factor with the option to add a clip-in EVF or even a compact OVF. I shoot my GXR with the EVF tilted all the way up anyway.

Couple of questions about flash with this camera. Would I be able to use any old radio trigger with this hot shoe? With Nikon I've always relied on CLS, or even the Auto mode on the older flashes. Could I just set the Sony flash to manual, lowest power without a pre-flash for metering, just to trigger an optical slave? Does Sony have a proprietary option for off-camera flash like CLS? For me, this camera would be the main family photograph generator in conjunction with the RX-100, so the versatility would be nice.

Sep 30, 2012 at 01:19 PM

ricardovaste
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p.56 #3 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

I see WEX has gone back down to £2599.99 pre-order... excl EVF/VF. Still no pricing on VF from them...

Interesting development in my camp. My father decided to give his daughter £2K in the week to help bring back down the repayments on the loan for her MA. Apparently this means (by the sibling laws of the world) a similar figure will also find it's way to me. You'd put it away in savings, obviously...

Oct 01, 2012 at 10:38 AM

Kit Laughlin
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p.56 #4 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

Ricardo: that's funny! Let's hope the sibling laws are in force.

Oct 01, 2012 at 03:49 PM

philip_pj
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p.56 #5 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

'How about the stupid, stupid mechanical shutter release cable?' Lol, I love those things...and loathe the electronic garbage I now need to use on Sony DSLRs, I see even the A77 needs the damn thing also.

Why? reliability, you can attach one in a dark room if need by; ergo feedback; you know when the cable thread is fully seated; they are pretty well indestructible, unlike the later thing that cannot be trusted; the tiny and poorly fitted pins that are used in the newer things; time taken to use a new age CR is just insufferable - the plug is not a both way fit; fragility of the pins themselves; exposure of electronic contacts to the elements (I use a CR *a lot*); ease of storage; feel of the plunger; even the way they curved away from the body was great, the length was just right not to snag on branches; you can walk a distance with the mech CR attached...the list goes on so I won't.

The RX1 has it where you can see it immediately and fit it easily, rather than be some afterthought lying beneath a cheap plastic unlabelled hatch on the side of the camera. Nikon and Pentax make very good mech CRs, or did...before digi madness ensued, even where it need not have. You might just get used to one again...

Oct 01, 2012 at 10:03 PM

douglasf13
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p.56 #6 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

melcat wrote:
alundeb wrote:
I need reasons not to get this camera, but they are hard to find cost aside.

How about the stupid, stupid mechanical shutter release cable? I really thought I was finished with these wretched things in 2008 when I retired my film kit. At least I didn't sell my nice teflon-lined one; it was in the tub of stuff to go on eBay.

Otherwise, it's hard to find anything wrong with this camera. I guess there could be a mechanical ISO dial, but you could argue against it on the grounds of clutter.

I do *not* want to see a built-in EVF and I don't think I'd buy the accessory one, for the reason Lloyd Chambers would: age-related presbyopia. In my case, I either wear contacts and can't see close-up without dioptric help, or I wear progressive multifocals and can't use a viewfinder with them. An LCD-only camera is just exactly what I want for the days when I am not expecting to take photos. (I think - I've never owned one other than my phone. It better be a good screen.)

I'd actually prefer the mechanical shutter release, myself. As for the EVF, I'd be fine without it, if there was a tilt LCD. What I don't like is neither an integrated EVF nor a tilt LCD.

Oct 01, 2012 at 10:20 PM

Jeff Kott
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p.56 #7 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

douglasf13 wrote:
What I don't like is neither an integrated EVF nor a tilt LCD.

Thank you Douglas!

Please keep coming up with lots of reasons why I don't want this camera.

Oct 01, 2012 at 10:41 PM

douglasf13
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p.56 #8 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

Jeff Kott wrote:
douglasf13 wrote:
What I don't like is neither an integrated EVF nor a tilt LCD.

Thank you Douglas!

Please keep coming up with lots of reasons why I don't want this camera.

I'm doing my best.

Oct 01, 2012 at 10:54 PM

philip_pj
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p.56 #9 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

'even leicas have problems with legacy wide angles and is fixed by software.'

Leaving aside the 'even' bit like they were made in heaven, this argues for a design solution, no?

'Where did you find that is has OSS?'

There seems to have been some confusion on this front, I saw a spec sheet somewhere to indicate it is so. The consensus now seems to be:

'No optical or digital IS for Fotos -

[Foto 3:2] f=35mm
[Foto 16:9] f=37mm

Digital IS for Videos via "Steady Shot (r)" -

[Video 16:9] f=44mm (SteadyShot On), f=37mm (SteadyShot Off)
70% of sensor used for the final image
[Video 4:3] f=48mm (SteadyShot On), f=45mm (SteadyShot Off)
88% of sensor used for the final image'

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1009&thread=42468259&page=1
more here, if you are not averse to Japanese:
http://www.sony.jp/CorporateCruise/Press/201209/12-0912C/

So a video fix rather than a physical lens addition? I am not up on video, but am happy not to have anything in the lens if possible. 35mm with good ergonomics is a good handhold option, in any case.

Oct 01, 2012 at 11:07 PM

hauxon
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p.56 #10 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

alundeb wrote:
I need reasons not to get this camera, but they are hard to find cost aside.

I think it's kind of stupid not having a built in optical viewfinder since it's a fixed lens camera. Should be rather straight forward, just like my Konica C35 has room for it and it's probably smaller than the RX1. The Fuji X100 implementation is almost perfect. Sony should have done somehting like that! The bulky external EVF makes it almost as big as a DSLR.

haha

....go buy one and test it out for us!

Oct 01, 2012 at 11:25 PM

douglasf13
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p.56 #11 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

hauxon wrote:
alundeb wrote:
I need reasons not to get this camera, but they are hard to find cost aside.

I think it's kind of stupid not having a built in optical viewfinder since it's a fixed lens camera. Should be rather straight forward, just like my Konica C35 has room for it and it's probably smaller than the RX1. The Fuji X100 implementation is almost perfect. Sony should have done somehting like that! The bulky external EVF makes it almost as big as a DSLR.

Oct 01, 2012 at 11:36 PM

hauxon
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p.56 #12 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

douglasf13 wrote:
hauxon wrote:
alundeb wrote:
I need reasons not to get this camera, but they are hard to find cost aside.

I think it's kind of stupid not having a built in optical viewfinder since it's a fixed lens camera. Should be rather straight forward, just like my Konica C35 has room for it and it's probably smaller than the RX1. The Fuji X100 implementation is almost perfect. Sony should have done somehting like that! The bulky external EVF makes it almost as big as a DSLR.

Oct 01, 2012 at 11:54 PM

douglasf13
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p.56 #13 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

hauxon wrote:
douglasf13 wrote:
hauxon wrote:
alundeb wrote:
I need reasons not to get this camera, but they are hard to find cost aside.

I think it's kind of stupid not having a built in optical viewfinder since it's a fixed lens camera. Should be rather straight forward, just like my Konica C35 has room for it and it's probably smaller than the RX1. The Fuji X100 implementation is almost perfect. Sony should have done somehting like that! The bulky external EVF makes it almost as big as a DSLR.

haha

....go buy one and test it out for us!

An optical finder kind of goes against the ethos of where Sony is taking photography. They don't even use OVFs in DSLRs anymore. Still, I'd agree in terms of not having an EVF.

I get it for getting rid of the mirror but when using it when there's no obvious utility it's kind of like putting a TV screen instead of the windscreen on your car. Why on earth would you exchange reality with a screen?

There are a number of reasons to choose a good EVF over an OVF like in the X100 (which I own and like) : accurate framing, manual focus, exposure simulation, size, cost, etc.

Of course, the X100 has a hybrid viewfinder, so you get the best of both worlds, but it adds size, complexity and cost. I've talked to some X100 shooters that solely use the EVF, although I can't imagine doing that myself, especially considering the EVF is so relatively bad.

Oct 02, 2012 at 12:03 AM

vario1
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p.56 #14 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

I think not having image stabilization is a major omission on Sony's part. Instead of a definite preorder, i will now wait for a few reviews to see how it is.

Oct 02, 2012 at 12:29 AM

philip_pj
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p.56 #15 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

CZ in relation to the new and rather interesting NEX primes:

Do the lenses have image stabilization?

'No, those three lenses we mentioned do not come with image stabilization. With short focal lengths image stabilization is not only not necessary – stabilization of lens elements can impair the imaging performance of the lens. Thus we decided for quality reasons to develop the lenses without image stabilization.'

I like how this company never shirks lens quality for gimmicks, even if it costs them in the marketplace. And significant in relation to the RX1 also...someone here recently mentioned the Canon IS lenses are not as good as the non-IS equivalents. Have always wondered about IBIS as well - what happens over time?

Oct 02, 2012 at 01:19 AM

philip_pj
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p.56 #16 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

'Lloyd Chambers would: age-related presbyopia.'

'the sheer prevalence of nearsightedness, or myopia, among Asian schoolchildren (in Singapore, China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Japan, and Korea) is stunning: 80 to 90% according to a recent review in the journal Lancet. In comparison, that number is just 20 to 30% in the UK. Myopia has also been on the rise in both Asia and Europe over the past few years.'

'A study on students of Chinese ancestry in the Singapore and Australia has also found correlations between among of time spent outdoors and lower rates of myopia.'

'The scientists think that the neurotransmitter dopamine may play a significant role in the structural development of the eyeball. Exposure to light increases the levels of dopamine in the eye, which may prevent elongation of the eyeball.
"We think there is a pretty well-confirmed mechanism,” says Morgan. “We postulate that bright outdoor light would stimulate the release of the retinal transmitter dopamine.'

Lloyd is wrong, as many people who work in sunlight and have good lifestyle habits may not suffer the condition. The Singapore story may also indicate more activities that require distance focusing are a big help; they have been for me and many friends who do not suffer the condition a decade or two past the supposed age of onset. I am so sorry to hear of this epidemic.

Oct 02, 2012 at 01:36 AM

millsart
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p.56 #17 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

vario1 wrote:
I think not having image stabilization is a major omission on Sony's part. Instead of a definite preorder, i will now wait for a few reviews to see how it is.

Do any true Zeiss lenses in any mount have image stabilization ?

Oct 02, 2012 at 03:06 AM

ken.vs.ryu
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p.56 #18 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

philip_pj wrote:
'even leicas have problems with legacy wide angles and is fixed by software.'

Leaving aside the 'even' bit like they were made in heaven, this argues for a design solution, no?

The solution is a specially designed fixed lens and a massaged FF sensor in the RX1.

hauxon wrote:I get it for getting rid of the mirror but when using it when there's no obvious utility it's kind of like putting a TV screen instead of the windscreen on your car. Why on earth would you exchange reality with a screen?

I can't depend on my eyes and an optical finder with focusing a f/1.4 lens. The evf with zoom and focus peaking corrects this.

Planes would benefit from getting rid of windows.

I think the 787 has problems with the electronic dimming windows.

Oct 02, 2012 at 03:34 AM

michaelwatkins
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p.56 #19 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

douglasf13 wrote:
Of course, the X100 has a hybrid viewfinder, so you get the best of both worlds, but it adds size, complexity and cost. I've talked to some X100 shooters that solely use the EVF, although I can't imagine doing that myself, especially considering the EVF is so relatively bad.

I used it more often than not, as I enjoyed the more precise framing the EVF makes possible. In conditions where the EVF did poorly, or for action / walk-into-the-frame timing, I'd use the OVF.

It was nice having a choice, but I'd much prefer a with a better EVF if asked to choose one over the other.

Oct 02, 2012 at 05:26 AM

sebboh
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p.56 #20 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

haha

....go buy one and test it out for us!

An optical finder kind of goes against the ethos of where Sony is taking photography. They don't even use OVFs in DSLRs anymore. Still, I'd agree in terms of not having an EVF.

I get it for getting rid of the mirror but when using it when there's no obvious utility it's kind of like putting a TV screen instead of the windscreen on your car. Why on earth would you exchange reality with a screen?

so you could see what your pictures will look like perhaps? if i wanted to see reality i would just look, no need for a window it's not like i need protection from the wind when i'm taking pictures.

i want to see focus and dof and exposure and and and...

Oct 02, 2012 at 05:32 AM

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