Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

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Taylor Sherman
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p.22 #1 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

Well the corners of the image will more or less never be coming in completely head-on, they'll always be at an angle coming from the exit pupil. But, still seems like a close shave. Remember that the only official FF lenses for this will be A-mount, so there'll be an EA3 adapter in between the lens and the mount.

Sep 11, 2012 at 04:18 PM

Taylor Sherman
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p.22 #2 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

There haven't been any pictures "leaked" of the back of the camera.

I'm wondering why not.

Sep 11, 2012 at 04:28 PM

sector99
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p.22 #3 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

The likely reason we aren't yet permitted to see the rear RX1 panel is because there is something there that should remain secret until PHOTOKINA begins.

That secret is likely an EVF slot where the EVF is a significant upgrade to the current SONY technology.

ciao

Sep 11, 2012 at 04:50 PM

Paul Gardner
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p.22 #4 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

For me, if they are going to use a Zeise lens, I want the 21mm on the RX1
Paul

Sep 11, 2012 at 05:15 PM

Bobu
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p.22 #5 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

Paul Gardner wrote:
For me, if they are going to use a Zeise lens, I want the 21mm on the RX1
Paul

+1

This is a camera I would buy immediately (especially if combined with the 36MP sensor).

Boris

Sep 11, 2012 at 05:52 PM

Makten
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p.22 #6 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

FlyPenFly wrote:
Hmm I don't know, people seem to think that the 45mm F1.8 is AWESOME and I only thought it was Okay, not the best, not the worst, but you know good. It had slightly disappointing bokeh for what was supposed to be a portrait lens.

I agree. The 45/1.8 is the same "sort" of lens as the Panasonic 20/1.7, which means that it's very sharp and looks perfect according to specs and at a first glance. But then it lacks som character and the colors aren't up there with the 12/2 or 25/1.4. Though, it's very nice for the money of course and I'll keep mine as long as I'm using MFT.

jonrock wrote:
There's a leaked image of the full frame e-mount camcorder floating around on the SAR site. Assuming it's real, is it just me or are the corners of the sensor seem to be cut?

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/first-pictures-of-the-fulll-frame-e-mount-vg-900/

No, it's the mount that blocks the corners and that won't be a problem if the exit pupil isn't very, very far away from the sensor.
Is it just me, or is the ratio slightly narrower than 3:2? Looks more like 7:5 or so.

Sep 11, 2012 at 05:56 PM

dcjs
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p.22 #7 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

Makten wrote:No, it's the mount that blocks the corners and that won't be a problem if the exit pupil isn't very, very far away from the sensor.

With all this speculation about a FF sensor in E-mount, I haven't seen anyone mention the fact that the lens mount (female bayonet) itself is going to make things even tighter. Not much use in having the sensor just barely clear the camera mount when that is not really the smallest point of the bottleneck. Well, but in the end it seems to fit somehow, barely. I just wonder why Sony engineered itself into such a tight spot (pun intended) here, can't imagine that FF was an afterthought that just happened to barely fit.

Sep 11, 2012 at 06:06 PM

Makten
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p.22 #8 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

dcjs wrote:
With all this speculation about a FF sensor in E-mount, I haven't seen anyone mention the fact that the lens mount (female bayonet) itself is going to make things even tighter.

The E-mount is still larger than the M-mount, so I don't see the problem with FF. They probably chose the size to make very small cameras possible (the mount is taller than the NEX-5 body).

Sep 11, 2012 at 07:07 PM

dcjs
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p.22 #9 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

Makten wrote:The E-mount is still larger than the M-mount, so I don't see the problem with FF. They probably chose the size to make very small cameras possible (the mount is taller than the NEX-5 body).

But at the same time, the M-mount has a longer flange distance, which puts the bottleneck further from the sensor plane, so the E-mount layout would be a challenge for telecentric lenses - which are, ironically, better suited to digital sensors, while the M system was designed around more symmetric lenses.

Well, let's just hope that the whole ray incidence angle problem will have been dealt with before a FF NEX comes to market, that's a major precondition for making alt shooters happy anyway.

Sep 11, 2012 at 07:21 PM

fotografur
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p.22 #10 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

Anyone want to guess when this RX1 will ship?

Sep 11, 2012 at 07:21 PM

rioni
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p.22 #11 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

Q1

fotografur wrote:
Anyone want to guess when this RX1 will ship?

Sep 11, 2012 at 07:58 PM

FlyPenFly
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p.22 #12 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

Q4, Sony is pretty darn quick in getting cameras to market unless there's been a flood.

Sep 11, 2012 at 08:10 PM

rioni
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p.22 #13 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

Not sure if this is a final product or a prototype though.

FlyPenFly wrote:
Q4, Sony is pretty darn quick in getting cameras to market unless there's been a flood.

Sep 11, 2012 at 08:30 PM

sebboh
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p.22 #14 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

Bobu wrote:
Paul Gardner wrote:
For me, if they are going to use a Zeise lens, I want the 21mm on the RX1
Paul

+1

This is a camera I would buy immediately (especially if combined with the 36MP sensor).

Boris

-1

i would have no interest in such a camera, and if you think the market is small for fixed 35mm lens $2800 camera, imagine how much smaller it would be for the even smaller niche of super wide fixed lens camera. you might as well say you wished it was a 400/2.8 lens.

Sep 11, 2012 at 08:31 PM

Mescalamba
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p.22 #15 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

Its supposed to be "beta". Whatever that means..

Sep 11, 2012 at 08:54 PM

inglis
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p.22 #16 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

David Kilpatrick's presentation of two Sony design and production teams in competition, the Alpha team producing the Nex, and the Cyber-shot team producing the RX100 and RX1, is intriguing:
"Inside Sony, I think there’s been some serious divisional competition between the former Minolta Alpha group and the more powerfully connected Cyber-shot team. All the indicators are that sometime earlier this year the two divisions were put into a competing situation and there may ultimately be one winner, one loser."
http://www.photoclubalpha.com/2012/09/10/sony-aims-for-the-sky-rx1/

I assume that from his work with Minolta and Sony that David knows of what he speaks.

His new photo quarterly ships today. I will check it out,

http://www.photoclubalpha.com/2012/09/05/cameracraft-a-new-quality-photo-quarterly/

Sep 11, 2012 at 09:10 PM

carstenw
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p.22 #17 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

dcjs wrote:
Makten wrote:The E-mount is still larger than the M-mount, so I don't see the problem with FF. They probably chose the size to make very small cameras possible (the mount is taller than the NEX-5 body).

But at the same time, the M-mount has a longer flange distance, which puts the bottleneck further from the sensor plane, so the E-mount layout would be a challenge for telecentric lenses - which are, ironically, better suited to digital sensors, while the M system was designed around more symmetric lenses.

I don't understand this comment. Having a large mount makes it easier to design lenses, as does having the mount closer to the sensor. The Sony has the advantage in both places. If you want to design a long focal length lens, you simply move the elements further away from the sensor, super-easy, and no downside, other than size (which you saved in the first place by having a close mount).

Btw, I believe that tele centric lens design refers to making a lens *shorter* than its focal length would normally lead you to expect, given a classic design. I am guessing that you were referring to long focal length lenses.

Sep 11, 2012 at 10:44 PM

kjcramer
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p.22 #18 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

$2799 MSRP

This will be announced along with the A99 and it's all-new auto focus system, plus an E-Mount video camera with a full frame sensor.

Got this from a very reliable source.

Edited on Sep 11, 2012 at 11:20 PM · View previous versions

Sep 11, 2012 at 11:12 PM

douglasf13
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p.22 #19 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

carstenw wrote:
dcjs wrote:
Makten wrote:The E-mount is still larger than the M-mount, so I don't see the problem with FF. They probably chose the size to make very small cameras possible (the mount is taller than the NEX-5 body).

But at the same time, the M-mount has a longer flange distance, which puts the bottleneck further from the sensor plane, so the E-mount layout would be a challenge for telecentric lenses - which are, ironically, better suited to digital sensors, while the M system was designed around more symmetric lenses.

I don't understand this comment. Having a large mount makes it easier to design lenses, as does having the mount closer to the sensor. The Sony has the advantage in both places. If you want to design a long focal length lens, you simply move the elements further away from the sensor, super-easy, and no downside, other than size (which you saved in the first place by having a close mount).

Btw, I believe that tele centric lens design refers to making a lens *shorter* than its focal length would normally lead you to expect, given a classic design. I am guessing that you were referring to long focal length lenses.

Large mount, yes. Mount closer to the sensor, I think it depends on sensor size to mount ratio. To us an extreme example, imagine how hard it would be to to make a lens for a 35mm sensor in a 40mm diameter mount that is only 5mm away from the sensor. If the sensor is large compared to the mount throat diameter, and the mount throat is close the sensor, things start getting in the way, and you might have a very high angle of incidence. With an aps-c sensor in the e-mount, this doesn't seem to be an issue, but we'll see how the 35mm sensor does.

Telecentric lens design just means that the light rays come out of lens with at less of an angle when hitting the sensor. These tend to be more retrofocal and long.

Sep 11, 2012 at 11:13 PM

dcjs
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p.22 #20 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

Forgive the crappy scetch, I hope it just serves it's purpose.

This image is copyrighted by the owner

The left side shows an exit pupil (green aperture) located close to the sensor (blue) with the "cone of light" (cyan) hitting the sensor at the angle a. The light bundle just clears the mount, which is close to the sensor. If you increase the distance of the mount (right/yellow) to the sensor while keeping the diameter constant, you can choose a more telecentric design (exit pupil further away from the sensor) and thus a steeper angle of incidence b, while still clearing the mount. This same cone of light on the right side would not clear the (red) mount on the left side. Conversely, with the exit pupil closer to the sensor and the mount further from the sensor, the mount diameter could be smaller (the theoreticel extreme case would be a mount that is located at the exit pupil and has the diameter of the exit pupil).

That is why I said that the E-mount being tight and close to the sensor is a challenge for lenses that have an exit pupil that is far from the sensor, while (more symmetrical) lenses with an exit pupil close to the sensor are a challenge because of the angle of incidence.

Sep 11, 2012 at 11:17 PM

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