Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

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rscheffler
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p.121 #1 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

colonelpurple wrote:
As well as being bigger the Leica M is 100g heavier then the M9.
With a lens it's more then twice the weight of the RX1.
The weight and size were a big disappointment for me.
It's practically the same as a Canon 6D, which is more versatile.

The RX1 is very small. This is a USP. If you don't like small of course get something else, e.g. a Nikon D600 and Zeiss lens.

The RX1 has a silent shutter. The Leica is not silent.

The RX1 has replaced my ME and 35mm.
For me it is better then the new Leica M for everything except the quality of the RF focus.
I will use the OM-D for telephoto.

M mount lenses are a lot smaller than the majority of EF lenses, be it from Canon or Zeiss, etc. One could go on listing advantages and disadvantages for any camera/ or system, but obviously if someone is bothering to at minimum semi-seriously shoot with a Leica M, there's probably a combination of reasons that make the system attractive to them. The fact that the M240 doesn't have the absolute, technically best sensor on the market, despite it costing $7000 isn't a turn-off for me. It's competitive, that's what matter. Heck, I'm shooting with the M9, which apparently has the worst FF sensor tested by DXO? I still like the camera for a combination of reasons that meet my needs as well as anything else I've used over the years.

You listed RF focus, which to me is a very important aspect of the M system and IMO is often far superior to what I've been experiencing with the RX1's AF. The problem is the AF works pretty well many times, but perhaps due to insufficient experience with the camera, I'm encountering too many instances where AF hiccups. Either it won't lock focus when I need it to, and I miss the shot, or the focus is off. The latter has been more an issue with the multi-point AF picking the wrong point/distance. Therefore I've reverted to using the movable AF square. But to move it around eats some time. Moving subjects also tax the AF's accuracy. In comparison, with my M9, I can just shoot whenever I want to, when the timing is critical, even if I slightly miss the focus and follow focus is relatively easy once one gets accustomed to it.

I really like the RX1 a lot. I would probably use it a fair amount if it was given to me, since it's easy to carry along with the Leica M system and of course is also great on its own. There's no longer the feeling of being penalized for bringing a "point and shoot" because the sensor is FF and top notch and the lens is amazing. I've gotten what I think are some of the sharpest higher ISO wide angle, wide open images I've ever personally created. But I can see it becoming a love-hate relationship, primarily because of the seemingly thick electronic layer between me and the final image that is difficult to circumvent. This is primarily the AF as noted above. Another irritant is if the camera is asleep and I bring it to my eye (using the EVF), the camera wakes and turns on the LCD display and does not detect my eye at the EVF. Invariably it means losing a couple seconds to figure out what happened. I'd also like to figure out how to get my Pocket Wizards to fire from the hot shot. They fit on, but only fire maybe a few percent of the time, rendering that approach to off-camra lighting... I'm sure I could think of more, but it's getting late and I'm falling asleep writing this...

Mar 18, 2013 at 07:25 AM

sebboh
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p.121 #2 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

rscheffler wrote:
But I can see it becoming a love-hate relationship, primarily because of the seemingly thick electronic layer between me and the final image that is difficult to circumvent. This is primarily the AF as noted above.

this is how i've felt about every autofocus camera/lens i've every used, and the reason i turn AF off as soon as i pick up a camera.

rscheffler wrote:
Another irritant is if the camera is asleep and I bring it to my eye (using the EVF), the camera wakes and turns on the LCD display and does not detect my eye at the EVF. Invariably it means losing a couple seconds to figure out what happened.

can the camera be set up so that it switches between evf and lcd at the push of a button rather than automatically? the lack of ability to program such a button is my main annoyance with the NEX-7.

Mar 18, 2013 at 07:38 AM

colonelpurple
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p.121 #3 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

douglasf13 wrote:
colonelpurple wrote:

For me it is better then the new Leica M for everything except the quality of the RF focus.

That's a pretty big exception, considering that's the major draw of the whole M system. M stands for Messucher, which is German for rangefinder.

The lack of a built-in EVF and tilt LCD was the main reason I never considered the RX-1. I mean, that's what everyone was waiting for with the NEX-7.

I agree
The M system has a lot of advantages. It construction and Jewellery for one, its MF system (which is superior to any AF system) and mostly the lenses.

I also first wrote the RX1 off because of the EVF.
Now however I see the elegance of the design.
The RX1 does have a EVF, in fact the best one made. The beauty of it is that it is detachable when you don't need it.
When its on it look really cool (the RX1 actually becomes professional looking).
Lastly it can tilt. That's a trick many cameras can't perform.

I wouldn't want it built it, then I would be left with the bulk of X100s.

To be honest the only fault I find of the RX1 is the anaemic packaging,the expense of extras that should be free and that Sony had the nerve to make it part of the cyber shot series.

Mar 18, 2013 at 07:44 AM

colonelpurple
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p.121 #4 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

rscheffler wrote:

M mount lenses are a lot smaller than the majority of EF lenses, .... The fact that the M240 doesn't have the absolute, technically best sensor on the market, despite it costing $7000 isn't a turn-off for me. It's competitive, that's what matter. Heck, I'm shooting with the M9, which apparently has the worst FF sensor tested by DXO? I still like the camera for a combination of reasons that meet my needs as well as anything else I've used over the years.

The problem is the AF works pretty well many times, but perhaps due to insufficient experience with the camera, I'm encountering too many instances where AF hiccups. Either it won't lock focus when I need it to, and I miss the shot, or the focus is off. The latter has been more an issue with the multi-point AF picking the wrong point/distance. Therefore I've reverted to using the movable AF square. But to move it around eats some time ......

... But I can see it becoming a love-hate relationship, primarily because of the seemingly thick electronic layer between me and the final image that is difficult to circumvent....

Yes
Having the best sensor is not important. The M9 is still a fine camera and at base ISO takes pictures the equal of any modern camera. Actually I still think the lens is most important. Ie. a good lens on an average sensor is much better then the other way round.

Never use autofocus selection with any AF camera.
With the RX1, the same as with the D800e and the OM-D, use spot/moveable centre only and focus&recompose if necessary.

Nothing beats the Leica connection with the light gathering exercise.

Mar 18, 2013 at 07:55 AM

Tariq Gibran
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p.121 #5 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

colonelpurple wrote:

I wouldn't want it built it, then I would be left with the bulk of X100s.

Yes, that bulky X100s!

Mar 18, 2013 at 11:29 AM

sebboh
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p.121 #6 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

Tariq Gibran wrote:
colonelpurple wrote:

I wouldn't want it built it, then I would be left with the bulk of X100s.

Yes, that bulky X100s!

If the RX1 was THAT huge, with it's OVF/EVF finder, it would have been in my bag on day 1. Anyway, for me, the x100 is the perfect, compact size. Small enough to take anywhere, big enough so ergonomic handling is not sacrificed. I felt the same about the body of the NEX-7 with regard to size.

i agree with colonelpurple, the added height of the x100 is kind of annoying, especially since i would pretty much never use the optical viewfinder. the NEX-7 doesn't have that with it's evf though. i'd be happy if the rx1 had was a tiny bit longer like the NEX-7 is to accommodate an evf.

Mar 18, 2013 at 03:38 PM

Tariq Gibran
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p.121 #7 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

Maybe it's just the way I'm used to carrying a small compact in a slim, small over the shoulder pouch (I use a Crumpler 1 Million dollar home) but the dimension that's usually the deal breaker for fit is the depth (back of camera to end of lens). I'm guessing the RX1 would just make it (though I suspect the height would not work if a finder was on top all the time). The X100 fits with room to spare.

Mar 18, 2013 at 05:31 PM

sebboh
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p.121 #8 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

Mar 18, 2013 at 05:51 PM

Tariq Gibran
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p.121 #9 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

I know a camera would never survive my wife's purse!

The camera in my pocket is my smartphone.

Mar 18, 2013 at 05:54 PM

naturephoto1
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p.121 #10 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

sebboh wrote:
Tariq Gibran wrote:
Maybe it's just the way I'm used to carrying a small compact in a slim, small over the shoulder pouch (I use a Crumpler 1 Million dollar home) but the dimension that's usually the deal breaker for fit is the depth (back of camera to end of lens). I'm guessing the RX1 would just make it (though I suspect the height would not work if a finder was on top all the time). The X100 fits with room to spare.

yeah, i never carry a camera in a bag designed for cameras. i'm always either carrying it my pocket, my hand, or crammed into some small compartment of a laptop bag. i stick them in my wife's purse a lot too.

You must turn some heads when people see you carrying your wife's purse.

Rich

Mar 18, 2013 at 05:56 PM

sebboh
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p.121 #11 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

naturephoto1 wrote:
sebboh wrote:
Tariq Gibran wrote:
Maybe it's just the way I'm used to carrying a small compact in a slim, small over the shoulder pouch (I use a Crumpler 1 Million dollar home) but the dimension that's usually the deal breaker for fit is the depth (back of camera to end of lens). I'm guessing the RX1 would just make it (though I suspect the height would not work if a finder was on top all the time). The X100 fits with room to spare.

yeah, i never carry a camera in a bag designed for cameras. i'm always either carrying it my pocket, my hand, or crammed into some small compartment of a laptop bag. i stick them in my wife's purse a lot too.

You must turn some heads when people see you carrying your wife's purse.

Rich

nah, i live in san francisco. it takes a lot more than that to turn heads here.

Mar 18, 2013 at 05:57 PM

Tariq Gibran
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p.121 #12 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

Heck, I carry my wife's diaper bag all the time, and I live in a small town! At some point, you just don't give a shit how it looks!

Mar 18, 2013 at 06:00 PM

sebboh
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p.121 #13 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

Tariq Gibran wrote:
I know a camera would never survive my wife's purse!

this is the reason why have metal screw in caps for all my lenses. surprisingly, riding in my otherwise empty pocket seems to be harder on camera bodies than riding in my wife's purse with all those sharp metal objects.

Mar 18, 2013 at 06:00 PM

colonelpurple
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p.121 #14 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

My wife's bag is like another universe.
Putting my camera there ready to be absorbed by a black hole is no joke

Nice to see this thread taking a lighter turn
Which reminds me, trying to find a friendly sony camera website to post photos in the same way that mu-43 and the Leica forum are.
Any ideas ?

Mar 18, 2013 at 07:14 PM

douglasf13
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p.121 #15 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

Tariq Gibran wrote:
Maybe it's just the way I'm used to carrying a small compact in a slim, small over the shoulder pouch (I use a Crumpler 1 Million dollar home) but the dimension that's usually the deal breaker for fit is the depth (back of camera to end of lens). I'm guessing the RX1 would just make it (though I suspect the height would not work if a finder was on top all the time). The X100 fits with room to spare.

Yeah, I usually just carry a camera on a strap across my body diagonally with a single lens attached. Depth is a lot more of a factor to me than length or height, for the most part. I prefer the dimensions of my M9+35/2 more than my NEX-7 with the Zeiss 24/1.8, simply because the NEX's depth was noticeably deeper. The RX1 is pretty similar in depth to my M9+35/2, which is nice, and I wouldn't mind the extra size for a built-in EVF on the RX-1. That being said, having the added height/appendage of the NEX-5n's add-on EVF wasn't that great, either, so I wouldn't be thrilled with the RX-1's current EVF, despite the cool tilt option.

Mar 18, 2013 at 09:43 PM

philip_pj
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p.121 #16 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

Apparently you can lock focus by assigning the C button to AF/MF? Anyway there appears to be a way, and Sony might firmware their way into a better method. I also read you might see poor AF (hunting) in A mode as the camera attempts AF stopped down (!)...veracity unknown, just reporting it. Sony usually have these hidden focus possibilities. Wayne assures me MF works good enough, and I trust him...that way I know who to blame later, lol.

Would the EVF have to add much bulk if it took the place of the flash? It should not steal much space, the Alpha EVFs are very compact.

I like that carry method too, douglas, the Gariz system looks weird - Huff has a review. Sometimes old school is best, I have to know the camera is secure all the time, not swinging around.

Tom, the add-on EVF can provide extra stability, some users say, and make your shot-making look less obvious than eye level shooting, a bit like waist level finders used to. Maybe it's true, and you can brace your arms into your sides more easily. Another thing, it leaves open the door for a better EVF in future.

Other cameras will come along and be great and better, but the quality is there now and will stay that way for a long time, in this Ron is right I think with his M9 remarks above.

Mar 18, 2013 at 11:06 PM

alwang
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p.121 #17 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

colonelpurple wrote:
My wife's bag is like another universe.
Putting my camera there ready to be absorbed by a black hole is no joke

Nice to see this thread taking a lighter turn
Which reminds me, trying to find a friendly sony camera website to post photos in the same way that mu-43 and the Leica forum are.
Any ideas ?

Dyxum? Though it's traditionally an alpha-mount forum; don't know if they've included the RX1.

Mar 19, 2013 at 12:35 AM

philip_pj
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p.121 #18 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

Sony friendly? Here we have the 'Sony Minolta A mount picture thread', and RX1, RX100 threads for images, maybe more. Also Zeiss (e.g. ZA) users are good for the Zeiss lens threads, and most people would appreciate more diversity.

Diversity of opinion is not something you will find at Soviet-style websites like Dyxum, surely the strangest name in existence for such a site, it sounds like a condom brand name. It's heavily policed and the overseers are much more interested in their own rules and forum processes than cameras.

My suspicion is it is run by a shadowy government department somewhere, no normal person is that anal or retrograde. For example, they have no RX anything forum, and the Konica Minolta SLR form has more posts than any other forum but the APS-C early cameras, I kid you not. A deep dark pond, with occasional glimpses of something interesting.

The other Sony forum worth a visit is at getdpi/sony, the denizens are more like close groupthink practioners than anything here, so you get these informal pecking orders and insider conversations happening. But good photographers as well, and good image threads, lots of gear freaks like us here.

DPR has good forums for Sony Alpha and RX, with a lot of teen level squabbling in-between rare displays of actual information, serious knowledge is a needle in a haystack deal.

There is another moribund home for old farts over at photo.net also. Here is obviously best in my view, thanks Fred.

Mar 19, 2013 at 06:18 AM

colonelpurple
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p.121 #19 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

philip_pj wrote:
Apparently you can lock focus by assigning the C button to AF/MF? Anyway there appears to be a way, and Sony might firmware their way into a better method. I also read you might see poor AF (hunting) in A mode as the camera attempts AF stopped down (!)...veracity unknown, just reporting it. Sony usually have these hidden focus possibilities. Wayne assures me MF works good enough, and I trust him...that way I know who to blame later, lol.

.......

I like that carry method too, douglas, the Gariz system looks weird - Huff has a review. Sometimes old school is best, I have to know the camera is secure all the time, not swinging around.
.

Ray Sachs has some interesting comments about the RX1 on dpreview.
He finds the focus very fast at f5.6 or below but starts hunting at f8 or above.
The RX1 keeps the iris open at the setting when on so this makes a lot of sense and would be in line with most DSLRs which can not focus above f5.6 (designed to all focus wide open only).

In terms of case I have the Gariz and its not bad.
Luigi has the nicest new case IMHO although seems to cover the AEL button.
It's also very expensive, 209 euros + vat.
After Cyprus the euro is probably on the way down down down anyway

Mar 19, 2013 at 07:46 AM

Jochenb
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p.121 #20 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (fixed lens)

When I really want to look inconspicuous I now detach the EVF. It looks like a P&S that way. People don't bother and can't hear the near silent leaf shutter.
It's a big strength of this camera IMHO. The downside is that it doens't have the ergonomics of a bigger camera.

I mostly carry it around in a Thinktank retrospective 5 bag. Replaced the Sony neckstrap with a Gordy's wrist strap.

Mar 19, 2013 at 08:01 AM

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