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Archive 2012 · Zeiss 15mm support group?
  
 
wiseguy010
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Zeiss 15mm support group?


mMontag wrote:
Zeiss 15 vs Nikon 14-24 vs Samyang 14.........

http://www.3d-kraft.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=127:uwa-comparison&catid=40:camerasandlenses&Itemid=2


Very interesting review. Thanks for the link.



Sep 23, 2012 at 10:47 PM
philip_pj
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Zeiss 15mm support group?


A few comments on the generally competent and informative review linked above to 3D-Kraft:

The treatment of resolution then occupies perhaps 80% of commentary. So we know what is important to them and perhaps to readers here.

There is at least one elephant in the room however: colour. The word is actually not mentioned - at all, anywhere. The second is related and more important, but since most either mislabel or cannot perceive it, I'll say no more about image depth.

The S and N lenses are just horrible wide open, even in the centre, too bad they did not do them on the 24Mp NEX, for laughs. The zoom has just dreadful colour and lacks subtlety, except for fans of blue trees and blue neutrals.

The Samyang does surprisingly well, clean details at smaller apertures, let down by lack of colour contrast and a washed out treatment of highlights, not to mention the comical distortion levels. Its colour tonality is still better than the giant zoom, and its worth noting that this is the sweet spot of the 14-24. The Nikon does corner detail very nicely at mid apertures. CA wide open, while 'removable', is not a good look.

Bokeh to the CZ, then Samyang, then Nikon. Distortion correction will harm files a little but looks to be necessary for the S and N lenses, the CZ is stellar in this respect.

Some good representative images so quite valuable overall.
Bottom Line, keep waiting for the 15mm, guys. It's the best and most versatile and usable of this lot, on my point system anyway ;-)



Sep 23, 2012 at 11:39 PM
shoenberg3
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Zeiss 15mm support group?


considering the zeiss is almost 10 (!) times the price of the samyang, i'd say samyang really punched above its weight...


Sep 24, 2012 at 01:29 AM
rji2goleez
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Zeiss 15mm support group?


philip_pj wrote:
Bottom Line, keep waiting for the 15mm, guys. It's the best and most versatile and usable of this lot, on my point system anyway ;-)


It's been a long wait and I know it will be worth it in the long run . . .



Sep 24, 2012 at 02:00 AM
wuxiekeji
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Zeiss 15mm support group?


tsdevine wrote:
I want a quality lens, so better they get it right than to ship out something not up to par.
-Tim


+1

In industries where delivery dates have zero flexibility, quality inevitably suffers. Yes, you can design everything right, but after you manufacture a prototype you'll find all kinds of problems that you didn't expect. The glue you used might outgas, you may find the ergonomics suboptimal, you may find that you got the mount all right on paper and then in the end find that you still have some wobble and have to do some improvising yourself. Improvise and then you find that your focus is off. Fix that and you find some ergonomic problem. Rinse and repeat.

In the Canon and Nikon world, you just get it over with, do your best, and ship. 70% of your lenses are decent, 20% are utter crap, and 10% are absolutely perfect by luck. For the average consumer, for whom price matters to some degree, and can deal with occasional warranty repairs, as well as reading reviews to find out which products are most suitable, this works, and that's also exactly what they're targeting.

In the Zeiss world, if your product isn't absolutely perfect, you don't ship. Period. Instead, you delay, do your research, build N more prototypes until you have a masterpiece of engineering and a masterpiece of production work. For the scientific and medical industries, equipment costs are seldom a limiting factor, so they'd rather shell out the extra dollars for a company that does everything to this last detail. You can basically trust any Zeiss product in a mission-critical situation. Yes, there are some Zeiss lenses that are better than others, but they are all decent performers, and none are going to fail easily or have significant sample variation. That's precisely why research industries put so much trust into Zeiss, Hamamatsu, and various other companies along these lines. The fact that you can basically at least trust any product from these companies saves a lot of time, lives, and wasted effort of highly-skilled people who should be spending time on other aspects of their work than fixing things. Guess which company I'm going to trust for the doctor's equipment if I'm the one getting surgery? Guess which company a scientist is going to trust for a lunar expedition? Or a feature film that can't afford to deal with a crappy focus ring in the middle of an aerial stunt? And for Zeiss who builds much of their product line for these kinds of clients, if they find that their prototypes are not up to par the day before the ship date, it's better to delay than to pollute that product line with something that doesn't live to its spec. These customers don't generally read product reviews, nor do they care about a couple thousand dollars here and there. Instead, they know exactly what they want, in numbers, they read your spec sheets, and your product better live up to them.

Neither is wrong; they are just targeting different consumers with different expectations.



Sep 24, 2012 at 03:45 PM
wiseguy010
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Zeiss 15mm support group?


On another forum I read this message from a guy who spoke with a Zeiss-representative in Hamburg:

"And one last update: Zeiss may release a 15mm lens without build in lens hood so Slot in GND Filters can be used as well."

This is what I actually want. I was convinced that third parties will make GND filters that can be used on the version with the build in lens hood, but this is better. Mmm, I think I will contact Zeiss about this.



Sep 27, 2012 at 10:19 PM
philip_pj
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Zeiss 15mm support group?


It's refreshing to see others with that view, wuxiekeji, I could not agree more. Did you read that they want to check every single 15/2.8 lens of the first batch for MTF performance to see they conform to specifications? Pretty special attention to detail.






Sep 27, 2012 at 11:05 PM
tsdevine
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Zeiss 15mm support group?



That's one of the reasons I want one from the first batch. :-)



Sep 27, 2012 at 11:43 PM
tsdevine
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Zeiss 15mm support group?



Mine arrived at the dealer today, they're shipping it out as I write...

-Tim



Oct 08, 2012 at 08:37 PM
rji2goleez
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Zeiss 15mm support group?


Huh - I got a message from B&H just yesterday saying the lens was still on back order. Maybe it was just timing for a canned message but hearing yours in on the way makes me wonder . . .


Oct 08, 2012 at 08:45 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



tsdevine
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Zeiss 15mm support group?



It's gotta be close, got mine from Popflash so I have to believe B&H should be getting some soon as well.



Oct 08, 2012 at 08:47 PM
wiseguy010
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Zeiss 15mm support group?


I got a message from Zeiss that it will be no earlier than the end of October.

The delay was caused by a shortage of "special" glass.



Oct 09, 2012 at 04:27 PM
tsdevine
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Zeiss 15mm support group?



Well, I'm lucky enough to have received mine. I'm hoping do so some shooting with it tomorrow (weather permitting.)

-Tim



Oct 09, 2012 at 06:39 PM
rji2goleez
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Zeiss 15mm support group?


Congrats! Looking forward to seeing some images . . .


Oct 09, 2012 at 06:48 PM
tsdevine
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Zeiss 15mm support group?



I'm shooting some autumn waterfalls tomorrow at Ricketts Glen State Park, hope for clouds and I should be able to post some tomorrow night or Thursday.



Oct 09, 2012 at 11:21 PM
Xavier Rival
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Zeiss 15mm support group?


Thanks for the review link; the results are certainly impressive.


Oct 10, 2012 at 08:05 AM
wiseguy010
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Zeiss 15mm support group?


I can't wait to see your first results.


Oct 10, 2012 at 07:21 PM
carstenw
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Zeiss 15mm support group?


wuxiekeji wrote:
Guess which company I'm going to trust for the doctor's equipment if I'm the one getting surgery?


Olympus!

Guess which company a scientist is going to trust for a lunar expedition?

Nikon!

Or a feature film that can't afford to deal with a crappy focus ring in the middle of an aerial stunt?

Arri!




Oct 10, 2012 at 07:27 PM
carstenw
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Zeiss 15mm support group?


philip_pj wrote:
A few comments on the generally competent and informative review linked above to 3D-Kraft:

The treatment of resolution then occupies perhaps 80% of commentary. So we know what is important to them and perhaps to readers here.

There is at least one elephant in the room however: colour. The word is actually not mentioned - at all, anywhere. The second is related and more important, but since most either mislabel or cannot perceive it, I'll say no more about image depth.

The S and N lenses are just horrible wide open, even in the centre, too bad they did not do them on
...Show more

The link in the post previous to yours actually provides some samples on the NEX-7, as you joked about.

I think your summary is at odds with the conclusion in that article, as well as my take after reading it. Yes, the Zeiss beats the Nikon handily in some tests, but in others, I would say that the Nikon pulls ahead, all the while we should keep in mind that it is a zoom. The test results on the NEX-7 are not really relevant for these lenses, except perhaps the Samyang. No one buys a massive 1500 Euro or 3000 Euro super wide for crop camera use, when there are better native or other options. Even on a D800E these lenses all perform well in various ways, and although I would say that the Zeiss puts out the best performance, the Nikon zoom still puts on an amazing show for such a lens. There is nothing out there which competes, considering its price, performance and flexibility.



Oct 10, 2012 at 07:34 PM
wiseguy010
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Zeiss 15mm support group?


I suppose it is the same as the tests between the 14-24 and Zeiss 21/2.8. Not in all tests the Zeiss is the "winner". But I would never replace my 21/2.8 with the Nikon.


Oct 10, 2012 at 08:05 PM
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