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Archive 2012 · Coming over from Nikon - question/advice
  
 
AgeOfEmpires
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p.1 #1 · Coming over from Nikon - question/advice


First post on the forum (at least I think - I visited FM way back in the day, late 90's? fairly frequently when I had a G1 and a G2), very much a point and shooter who wishes they had the time and talent to be more.

(I had embarked on a novel here, but decided to substantially shorten it.)

Let me just say that I've been a Nikon SLR and dSLR user since a '93 purchase of a 6006. I presently have a D90. However, I've decided to move over to Canon. For brevity, I'll spare you the details.

I've ordered a 70-200 f4L and now am trying to decide on an "every day" lens and a body (glass before body, right? ). I am looking at the 17-40 f4L and a later-to-be-added 50mm or so and a 430EX ii flash.

Bodies - well that's a much more confusing area for me. I'd love a FF, but can't go for the 5d mkii or mkiii for now (although I MAY be able to pick up the 5d mkiii in 6 months or so).

My current line of thought, based on a number of "opinions" around the web, is to get a used 5D for now instead of either the 60D or the 7D. The reasons are many, but essentially it comes down to the $'s I could get back out of the 5D a few months down the road vs. either a new 60D or new 7D, when I decided to move up the 5D line.

Although I know this isn't a simple debate, and there are many positives for other approaches, can anyone see a big flaw in this approach? Although I understand the 5D is older, and not as refined as today's options, it allows me to have a more robust Canon option, sparing some of the money that I would spend on either a 7D or 60D on the flash and 17-40, both of which will outlive the 5D/60D/7D and the next body after that.

Thanks for any input.



Sep 03, 2012 at 02:34 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #2 · Coming over from Nikon - question/advice


If you think you need full frame and are looking at 5D-series bodies, I would not get the 5D unless you are unable to afford anything better. It was a fine camera and still is, but there was a significant change between the 5D and the 5D2: 12MP to 21MP, live view added, better high ISO performance, effective dust reduction system (important!), video, and so forth. If you are looking at a used camera and can afford a bit more, I recommend that 5D2. Note that 5D2 prices have been dropping quickly recently, following the introduction of the newer 5D3.

The 5D3 is an improvement over the 5D2, though the differences, while real, are not nearly of the magnitude of those seen when comparing the 5D and the 5D2. If you have the money and aren't worried about cost and want a new camera, that can be fine, too.

The two common standard zooms on Canon full frame cameras tend to be the EF 24-105mm f/4 L IS and the 24-70mm f/2.8 L. A newer version of the 24-70 is coming soon - reportedly better in some ways but also very expensive. Both lenses are excellent, and both have their strong fans and their detractors. I finally got tired of responding to the questions about comparing the two, and I posted a sort of summary at my blog: http://www.gdanmitchell.com/2011/02/06/canon-ef-24-70mm-f2-8-l-versus-canon-ef-24-105mm-f5-l-is

The 17-40mm f/4 L is a fine lens and one of the two most common ultra-wide Canon zooms on full frame cameras. The other option is the 16-35mm f/2.8 L. (The newer version II has slightly improved performance at f/2.8 by comparison to the previous version of the lens, but it also requires the use of a larger and slightly non-standard 82mm filter thread.)

If you are primarily going to use such a lens for tripod-based, small aperture work - say landscape or architecture, etc - the 17-40 is an outstanding performer stopped down. It is also smaller, lighter, and less expensive, and it is resistant to flare. If your primary intended use is something like handheld, ultra-side, low light photography, then the 16-35 may well be your choice.

Your question brings up a couple of other issues. The first might be the cropped sensor versus full frame question, and this may also play into your cost considerations. Current Canon and Nikon cropped sensor bodies can produce truly excellent image quality. The primary advantage (though not quite the only one) of the full-frame bodies is the potential for somewhat better resolution when producing very large and very carefully made prints. If you are not going to be regularly pushing the upper boundaries of print size (say, making a lot of prints at 20" x 30" and larger) then you might seriously consider a cropped sensor body. You may be able to get excellent quality at a lower cost, and get more/better features on the less expensive cameras.

The other issue is the question of why you would switch to Canon from Nikon. I suppose that having bought a lens, you are now committed. However, I have to point out that brand switching is rarely the panacea that many imagine it will be. Frankly, both Canon and Nikon (plus others like Sony and Pentax...) make excellent cameras and lenses. It is impossible to tell which brand was used by looking at photographs, and excellent photographers choose both brands. While I'm a Canon user, in a way that is more a result of chance than anything else, and I'm certain that if I shot Nikon I would produce much the same quality of photographs that I produce now. Basically, it is typically better to stick with a brand...

Dan

Edited on Sep 03, 2012 at 09:02 PM · View previous versions



Sep 03, 2012 at 02:50 AM
jeraldcook
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p.1 #3 · Coming over from Nikon - question/advice


If you don't care about live-view and the other improvements made over the years, the original 5D is still a great camera with incredible image quality at ISO 800 and lower. Yes, the user interface is old and slow and there is no dust cleaning mechanism but it still takes great photos. Plus, if you're planning on upgrading in the short term you'd probably lose the least amount of money buying a 5D.

My only other thought is about the 17-40. If you need the 17-23mm focal range, it's a great choice. However, I'd also make a pitch for the 24-105L. It has IS and with all the 5DIII kits being sold off you can pick a new one up for less than $800.

The 5D and either the 17-40L or 24-105L would be a smart choice.



Sep 03, 2012 at 03:01 AM
UnknownSouljer
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p.1 #4 · Coming over from Nikon - question/advice


It seems to me, that if you're willing to spend the cash on a 5DC, you might as well get a 7D (with nifty new upgraded firmware!, or not and just do it yourself, super simple) and then later sell it to buy a 5D3. Right now, 7D's on Buy/Sell/Trade are sub $1k. I think that's a down right steal, and it's hard to deny it.

It will be limiting, in the sense that you won't be able to do super-wide, so if you're primarily a landscaper, that is rough, I'll admit. You can choose to just use the 17-40 a bit tighter than you'd like or get a 10-22 in the interim, which is a crop-sensor only lens. The 7D and the 10-22 is a force to be reckoned with. Really with that body lens combination, you could stay there for a long time and be happy (as a landscaper I mean.)



Sep 03, 2012 at 04:32 AM
Jude Perera
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p.1 #5 · Coming over from Nikon - question/advice


What is the reason to move out from Nikon? Just curious.


Sep 03, 2012 at 04:52 AM
mmurph
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p.1 #6 · Coming over from Nikon - question/advice


I woul drecommend a T4i.

That has good auto focus for stills, better Live View focus, the articulating LCD, plus touch screen, auto focus and auto exposure for video, and basically the same sensor as the 7D.

I think you will be freustrated with the auto focus on the 5D or 5D2 coming frm Nikon.

The 7D and 60D are both dated. They are still decent, but neither offer you much taht the T4i doesn't have.

Basically the 5D3 and T4i are the only cameras that have been updated. Although I would expect a newer Canon camera soon, so you might wait a week to see if Photokina turns up anything new.



Sep 03, 2012 at 07:50 PM
vsg28
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p.1 #7 · Coming over from Nikon - question/advice


I would argue the 7D/60D are still way better than the T4i, apart from the touch screen part.


Sep 03, 2012 at 08:01 PM
AgeOfEmpires
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p.1 #8 · Coming over from Nikon - question/advice


Thanks for the responses so far.

I am now strongly considering the 24-105 instead of the 17-40 and 50 combo.

The 7D is a compelling camera, but I would anticipate (may be wrong here) it will depreciate more vs. the original 5D (which has had significant depreciation obviously) over the mid-term. The 7D is certainly more refined, and some prefer the APS-C, but I am really interested in FF benefits but cannot buy the lenses, flash, and a 5D Mkii all at once. The Mkiii is the one that really intrigues me (even though bodies come and go quickly), but there is no way I can go for that one now. I am certain I can live with the 5D for a few months and then move up when they are priced a little more reasonably.

Why move from Nikon? Great question. There are a few reasons, none of which relate to an inherent displeasure with Nikon. Also, I don't think Canon will make me a better photographer vs Nikon (I realized my talents, or lack thereof, quite a while ago) - both are outstanding systems. I've seen fantastic pictures from a hand-held palm pilot camera (wasn't that thing < 1MP?), while a whole bunch of utterly crummy pictures from setups costing $1000's. Firm believer that the shooter is the most important component here.

What got the whole thing started was looking at the 70-200's. I don't care to deal with the heft of the 2.8's and Canon has the very nice 70-200 f4 IS L. Nikon has no such lens that I can see. Also with the interest in FF (some will argue with me here - everyone has their opinion in this arena with valid arguments for both formats), I would be leaving behind 85% of my Nikon lenses (the DX ones), so in a way FF is ALMOST like starting over for me anyway. Plus, all of my friends have Canon's, so it just makes it easier to borrow, try out other equipment, discuss, etc.

Again,I've got zero problems with Nikon and will most likely, in the interim, keep the D90 and the DX's. But I'm going to try the Canon route too.

Thanks again to everyone.



Sep 03, 2012 at 08:11 PM
AgeOfEmpires
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p.1 #9 · Coming over from Nikon - question/advice


mmurph wrote:
I think you will be freustrated with the auto focus on the 5D or 5D2 coming frm Nikon.


You have nailed my really only fear in this endeavor.



Sep 03, 2012 at 08:13 PM
15Bit
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p.1 #10 · Coming over from Nikon - question/advice


I think Dan summed things up well.

Ignore the money - neither a 5D or a 7D is going to represent a wise financial investment. The 5D most likely will break irreparably (cos its old) and the 7D will depreciate, especially when the mk2 eventually comes out. Just accept these facts and pick the model that does what you want.



Sep 03, 2012 at 08:35 PM
 

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gdanmitchell
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p.1 #11 · Coming over from Nikon - question/advice


AgeOfEmpires wrote:
The 7D is a compelling camera, but I would anticipate (may be wrong here) it will depreciate more vs. the original 5D (which has had significant depreciation obviously) over the mid-term.


Is depreciation your primary consideration when selecting a camera?



Sep 03, 2012 at 08:59 PM
AgeOfEmpires
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p.1 #12 · Coming over from Nikon - question/advice


15Bit wrote:
Ignore the money.


If I could, I would.

I am almost certain I've located a used 5D at a reasonable price that has been lightly used, from a reputable dealer with a 14 day return and a 6 month warranty. (No, I don't believe everything I read or that I am told) If I find I'm not liking the 5D after a few months, I will have already absorbed the cost of the two lenses and flash and the Mkiii will have come down in price. I'm guessing that in the end, based on what I would pay for a lightly used 5D today and the price of a Mkiii in 6 months, vs a Mkiii today, this route may cost me $300 at max. Very small cost to avoid lumping in a $3200 camera with the purchase of these other items. Plus, who wouldn't pay $300 for a nice 5D as a backup to a 5D Mkiii?

Not everyone will see the logic, or maybe there isn't really even any logic here, but that's part of my thought process.



Sep 03, 2012 at 09:01 PM
AgeOfEmpires
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p.1 #13 · Coming over from Nikon - question/advice


gdanmitchell wrote:
Is depreciation your primary consideration when selecting a camera?


Great question. Certainly not. But see my prior post. I think in the end, the 5D won't cost me too much to use in the interim. Depreciation does play some role for a regular guy (non-Pro) I believe, especially when you are talking about higher-end dSLR's. It can be brutal (as you are fully aware) during the first 12-24 months. There is always going to be a new kid on the block.

Will the new price of the Mkiii depreciate my (hypothetical) $300 loss in value of a used 5D over the next 6 months? I firmly believe at least that much or more. I may be wrong, which places my $300 at risk. I am willing to risk that much not having to spend $3200-$3500 right now on a camera when I will spend $2200 on a couple of lenses and a flash too.

I'd love to be made of money, but I'm not. So I need to plan out these purchases. As far as the Mkii, I could have spent my $2200 on that, but I'd be left without lenses and a flash, plus it intrigues me far less than the Mkiii.

Good discussion for me, here. Thanks again to everyone. I appreciate your insights. Hopefully I don't sound too hard-headed. I am considering all of your thoughts. Perfect example is a couple of you swaying me towards the 24-105.



Sep 03, 2012 at 09:09 PM
AgeOfEmpires
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p.1 #14 · Coming over from Nikon - question/advice


mmurph wrote:
Although I would expect a newer Canon camera soon, so you might wait a week to see if Photokina turns up anything new.


As is probably evidenced from a couple of my other posts, I wouldn't/couldn't consider any cameras announced then. Quite often there are long lead times, the initial samples are more prone, in my opinion, to problems, and they are premium priced. Plus, a new camera does not impact the photo quality of those bodies already in general use.

I can understand this line of logic. For those that are either pro, an exceptionally active amateur, or can afford to always stay with the most recent body, those announcements are exciting.



Sep 03, 2012 at 09:22 PM
bbasiaga
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p.1 #15 · Coming over from Nikon - question/advice


I shoot the original 5D all the time. Sure, it isn't as fancy as the newer ones, but I don't do video and the only other feature I miss is live view. I'd say you could be happy with this camera, if you are aware of its autofocus limitations (which IMO aren't as damning as others say).

If you really want a good body for low $ that you plan to sell again in a few months, look at a 40D. It is not FF, but takes great images, has some of the more 'modern' features, and is dirt cheap used. That is my second body and it is great. Nab one for a couple hundred less than a 5d, and you may end up keeping it as a second body when you have saved up for your MK III

-Brian




Sep 04, 2012 at 01:46 AM
Gyrine
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p.1 #16 · Coming over from Nikon - question/advice


Have you considered the 1DsMkII? Great autofocus, 16mp FF camera that still delivers. Only real nit is the smaller LCD screen compared to today's cameras. But, given all you get, that's still a fantastic option. There are many for sale here. I have one FS myself though I've seen others that are less expensive. 5D original not a bad option but autofocus and pro build of 1DsII a very good option. Could always keep as a backup. I will keep mine as a backup in the event that I do not sell it. I'm not unhappy to keep it either. Just printed a 20x40 image of Bridal Vail Falls. I love the images that can be produced with that camera. I currently own that as my FF and a 7D as my crop camera. I will either add the 5DMkIII in the future, or go insane and add the 1Dx in a couple years....assuming prices drop to less insanity.



Sep 04, 2012 at 01:58 AM
AgeOfEmpires
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p.1 #17 · Coming over from Nikon - question/advice


Gyrine wrote:
Have you considered the 1DsMkII?


Excellent suggestion, except I'm afraid it is out of my budget. Had not considered the camera (looked briefly at another pro body - an older one but don't really recall the exact one), but it looks to be another $600+ above the 5D, Worth every bit of it, I am sure, but again, only so much cash to go around.



Sep 04, 2012 at 03:22 AM
AgeOfEmpires
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p.1 #18 · Coming over from Nikon - question/advice


bbasiaga wrote:
I shoot the original 5D all the time. Sure, it isn't as fancy as the newer ones, but I don't do video and the only other feature I miss is live view. I'd say you could be happy with this camera, if you are aware of its autofocus limitations (which IMO aren't as damning as others say).

If you really want a good body for low $ that you plan to sell again in a few months, look at a 40D. It is not FF, but takes great images, has some of the more 'modern' features, and is dirt cheap
...Show more

Thanks for the input. My buddy has the 40D and enjoys it. This would certainly be a viable option. However, I am hoping this 5D "stepping stone" plan gives me a nice FF backup to the 5D MkIII that I don't necessarily feel the need to sell, but can if the need arises. I am sure if I went with a non-FF camera, I would not be so inclined to keep it. This is certainly one of my concerns with the 7D coupled with its higher price and (I believe) a higher level of additional depreciation over the next few months. Plus, I have the D90 if I need feel the need for that format.

But, like I said, certainly food for thought.



Sep 04, 2012 at 03:48 AM
Matt Kerby
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p.1 #19 · Coming over from Nikon - question/advice


I think the 5D is a great body and I think that paired up with a 24-105 and an inexpensive fast prime you will have a great kit that doesn't loose too much value.
I also think that the 5D paired with a fast prime will give you better IQ than a 7D with a fast prime. The 5D just has a really special sensor
You can still find 5d's with low mileage. Like others said, the 17-40 is a great lens, I've owned plenty and own one now, but as a walkaround zoom it's limited.
I've owned just about every body except the 5DmkIII.....truth? Besides the larger screen....The bells and whistles don't do much for me...If I want to shoot video, I use my G12.
I sold my 5DmkII and 7D and bought a 1DsmkII because I just like the images it produces....And I think the 5D has a very similar look....
I'm sure others will disagree, but this is just my opinion....I like your thought process....Go for the 5D/24-105/50mm



Sep 04, 2012 at 04:20 AM
AgeOfEmpires
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p.1 #20 · Coming over from Nikon - question/advice


Thanks again to everyone who participated here on my first post. Lots of good info and I look forward to participating more in the forum in the future.

The excitement of selecting a new camera, the relatively unknown world of Canon to me, the wealth of information, and the number of permutations led me to the conclusion that I could analyze this to death for several more days or just choose a direction and go.

I decided upon the 5D - my initial thought coming in. However, I did choose the 24-105 instead of the 17-40. That lens and the 5D, along with the 70-200 f4 L and the 430EX II, should, I hope, provide a nice introduction to Canon.

The 5D and 24-105 are coming from KEH. The 5D is an EX+ rated body. They had a LN-, but from what I've read about KEH over the years, the EX+ will be exceptionally nice, so I save some $'s. The 24-105 is an LN-. The flash and other lens are both new. I've got 14 days to test the two used items. Plus they both carry a 6 month warranty. Can't wait to lay my hands on them.

Once again, thanks. I appreciate all the valuable insight from everyone.



Sep 05, 2012 at 03:20 AM
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