I wish I could claim authorship for coining the terms or providing a rough breakdown of camera qualities. But it's been debated for several years that I'm aware of, here and on DPR forums. It's not much of a reflection of my opinion. Personally, I care about the gear that I have and want, and it spans several categories of quality and price.
Basically, it sounds like Andre wants a camera he doesn't need to pay very much for, and can still call a pro camera. He doesn't need anyone's blessing to do that, and I probably shouldn't have popped a hole in his dream.
Perhaps I'm wrong, but it seem clearly understood from threads I've read, that the D4 and 1DX are pro cameras, and the D800 and 5D3 are not. It seems a clear demarcation, but as Andre says, everyone has an opinion.
Maybe there are no categories? Every body is of equal value to any other. It may be they are all pro.
I'll leave to a consensus to figure out what sort of categories we should have, if any.
Gunzorro wrote:
Maybe there are no categories? Every body is of equal value to any other. It may be they are all pro.
I really don't think there is such a thing as a 'non pro' camera. Sorry guys, I really don't. There are some cameras that are designed specifically 'for' pros, weather sealing, better AF etc, but really other cameras, even the little D3100 in the hands of a 'pro' who is trying to be stealthy makes an awesome tool. Why would it not be a 'pro' camera if a pro is using it to deliver pro results?
People like to pigeon hole products so they can feel better about their chosen purchases, or superior to the next guy with a smaller camera.
Sep 01, 2012 at 04:14 PM
Andre Labonte Offline • • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off
Dave_EP wrote:
I really don't think there is such a thing as a 'non pro' camera. Sorry guys, I really don't. There are some cameras that are designed specifically 'for' pros, weather sealing, better AF etc, but really other cameras, even the little D3100 in the hands of a 'pro' who is trying to be stealthy makes an awesome tool. Why would it not be a 'pro' camera if a pro is using it to deliver pro results?
People like to pigeon hole products so they can feel better about their chosen purchases, or superior to the next guy with a smaller camera.
Sep 01, 2012 at 04:57 PM
Andre Labonte Offline • • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off
Back to the topic of the OP ... a D600 with a D4 sensor would be kick butt, especially if it comes in a D7K or similar sized body an cost ~$2K ... I know people are saying $1.5K but I find that hard to believe but would happily be proven wrong.
As for my desire for a D300s replacement (the D400). I want the basic feature set of the D300s (build, AF, FPS, etc) but with the sensor advancements we are seeing in the current bodies that are coming out. Nikon was able to do that for $1800 with the D300 and I think they can do somethig similar with the D400 ... they may even get it down to $1500 if they just take the D300s and do nothing but upgrade the sensor and support electronics. It would be a kick-butt camera that would sell well and compliment the D600 quite well.
A pro camera? A pro can use any camera and produce images and sell them. The D3/D4 series are classed as pro as they are built to go to battle with and have slightly faster AF, but thats the only reasons I can see.
The D800 has to be classed as a pro camera as its much higher res and would be the camera of choice for a studio photographer for instance, over the more expensive but lower res D4 - the D4 is built to take the knocks and is better for fast action
Gunzorro wrote:
I wish I could claim authorship for coining the terms or providing a rough breakdown of camera qualities. But it's been debated for several years that I'm aware of, here and on DPR forums. It's not much of a reflection of my opinion. Personally, I care about the gear that I have and want, and it spans several categories of quality and price.
It is pretty amusing that you're trying to say that the crew at either of these forums has a consensus on these categories. It is also pretty clear you care about it more than you say.
Gunzorro wrote:
Basically, it sounds like Andre wants a camera he doesn't need to pay very much for, and can still call a pro camera. He doesn't need anyone's blessing to do that, and I probably shouldn't have popped a hole in his dream.
I find this arrogant and rude. You don't know anything about Andre (I don't either), but I think it is ridiculous to imply he has some fixation on a "pro" label, especially compared to your need to define certain cameras as "not pro". It really sounds like you've been reading too much Ken Rockwell.
I've got a D300s. I'm nothing close to a pro. But the handling and build of the camera is clearly in the pro family, and it allows me much more fast and accurate control of my camera. I honestly don't care if it is an "amateur" camera, a "semi-pro" camera or a "pro" camera. I bought it because I much preferred the handling over the D7000 and the D90 I was upgrading from. The handling has helped my photography more than the sensor would have.
Gunzorro wrote:
Perhaps I'm wrong, but it seem clearly understood from threads I've read, that the D4 and 1DX are pro cameras, and the D800 and 5D3 are not. It seems a clear demarcation, but as Andre says, everyone has an opinion.
You still haven't listed the details of the demarcation. Other than being integrated grip, I don't see much worth talking about. As I said before, I think you're reading Ken and his acolytes and not really thinking much.
Gunzorro wrote:
Maybe there are no categories? Every body is of equal value to any other. It may be they are all pro.
I'll leave to a consensus to figure out what sort of categories we should have, if any.
OK...
For the rest of the folks, I'll bow out of this aspect of the thread...
M635_Guy -- I think Andre and I are on a better balance right now, and don't need you to act as an advocate for either of us.
You've misunderstood my remarks. I didn't claim a consensus on DPR and FM, I said (camera grades) had been debated. Please read my last sentence again, where you apparently picked up the "consensus" reference.
Andre -- I agree: I think it's best if we get back on topic about the technical stuff and speculating on the upcoming models. Sorry for the distraction.
(Tongue in cheek comment). You guys have it wrong. I saw an ad in a photo magazine and a box store was advertising the D7000 as a "professional camera". Proof positive. Case closed. Logic would dictate that if the vaporware D600 is based on the D7000, then it has to be a "pro" camera, as well.
