p.2 #1 · "Best" Mirrorless Camera with Viewfinder?
JonasY wrote:
But the OM-D doesn't have any fast wide lens, unless it's ok with manual focus (17/0.95).
To OP, you need to specify your needs:
* How important is a small size?
* Is AF necessary?
* Do you consider money as a problem?
* How much do you care about image quality?
etc
I would call a 24mm (equiv) f2.0 pretty fast, and pretty wide
p.2 #5 · "Best" Mirrorless Camera with Viewfinder?
And come on, since when do we have to compare depth of field equivalence? If you want huge lenses, why go mirrorless? No mirrorless format has a 'fast' wide that's AF by your standard.
p.2 #6 · "Best" Mirrorless Camera with Viewfinder?
But the other discussion resolved down to: "at least I think ISO is more noisy". So I think it's a pretty false assumption to think f/2 == f/4 in terms of "speed". It doesn't actually seem to be the case. At least in my actual experience.
F/2 is F/2. DOF in relation to the frame size is different but that's about it.
p.2 #7 · "Best" Mirrorless Camera with Viewfinder?
To the OP, please don't get sucked into the different format fastness equivalence and photonic complication some people like discuss on these threads. While true, this is what the people at Olympus, Nikon and such have to worry about. The one's who worry about this are usually electronic engineers and not photographers. There's a reason it is not listed in the EXIF.
A f2 lens will always be f2 irregardless of format. DOF will be broader the smaller the format is for an equivalent focal length. IQ will degrade the smaller the sensor is but less than you would expect.
I am also interested in this thread as I need a new mirrorless...
p.2 #8 · "Best" Mirrorless Camera with Viewfinder?
As someone who has owned all the contemporary mirrorless cameras and most of the best lenses (including the OM-D, and all the Panny G bodies, GF1, GH1 and GH2, and other G bodies, Ricoh GXR and the "M" module plus many CV lenses), I think my current setup of a Panny GX1 with RRS modular bracket, the new LVF-2, the Panny 7-14, 20/1.7, and Oly 12/2 and 45/1.8 is hard to beat.
Excellent finder (which can be removed, making the body and a pancake like the 20/1.7 almost as small as the Sony RX-100), and it tilts, good menus, very solid body with a good grip built in, and the excellent small lenses.
Add to that the 50% price factor compared to the OM-D, both 16Mp (though the GX1 has 1-2 less stops of DR, according to Jman, and others), excellent ergonomics (the switches and dials are better than the OM-D, IMHO), it's a very compelling system. No one else seems to be recommending it, but it is the one I have chosen, having tried all the others.
p.2 #9 · "Best" Mirrorless Camera with Viewfinder?
my 2cents: I've got a 5D mk III (about a month old, coming from mk I which i've owned for 6 years) and Fuji X100. In the past I've also owned a 350D and last year shot with a 550D for a significant amount of time. I've also got a S90 p&s.
I enjoy the larger format sensors over P&S cameras due to better DOF control and dynamic range (especially blown highlights).
The X100 takes beautiful photos. The colours, tonality, dynamic range, etc are great. I however am selling mine as the interface and AF speed frustrate me and I can't really justify having so many cameras. I really miss the snappy AF of DSLRs. Also the camera, while small is not super pocketable either, but probably neither are any of the other mirrorless cams that are available. I also found it extremely annoying having to press about 4-5 buttons to change from auto ISO to a specific ISO. There are other quirks like ND filter - with a wide aperture there's a certain shutter speed that you are limited to - thats where the inbuilt ND filter comes in - BUT - you have to activate it manually. Little quirks that slowed down my shooting. I guess if you go in with different expectations to me and shoot in a different style, it may not be an issue for you.
I've heard the Nikon's have great AF speed. I briefly used a NEX-7 and found that to be nice, but again I only fired about 20 shots.
If one of your main criteria is a view finder, the X100 will tick that box. Its got the OVF and EVF - I use both in different situations. The OVF framing is a little loose, but its also nice being able more area than than what appears in the photo. The EVF is I think are very similar in size to the 5D. When it gets dark or contrasty, the EVF can be a little difficult to use (i think this goes for most EVFs).
One option that I've considered is getting a smaller canon body ie 600D with a prime, say one of the new 24mm f2.8 IS or 40mm pancake. Its still bigger than mirrorless but will integrate nicely into your existing setup. (or maybe waiting for the Canon EF-M cameras)
Slightly off topic:
Has anyone got/used the Sony RX100. I guess it falls into the P&S category, but it does have the same sized sensor to the Nikon mirrorless sensors and would offer DOF control, but no interchangeable lenses. Also has no VF. Can someone comment on AF speed compared to say the Nikon or Olympus OMD
p.2 #10 · "Best" Mirrorless Camera with Viewfinder?
I agree with JonasY , but also note: If you're 5D shooter you will be disappointed by quality of 4/3 cameras like OM-D
BTW, High ISO of M9 is not that bad. I once used 2500 w/o any problems
p.2 #11 · "Best" Mirrorless Camera with Viewfinder?
vovkinson wrote:
I agree with JonasY , but also note: If you're 5D shooter you will be disappointed by quality of 4/3 cameras, like OM-D
I disagree entirely. I'm a former 1Ds Mark II shooter, and I have no problems at all with the OM-D image quality. It's got a little more noise, you can't get as shallow in the DOF department, and well, that's about it, really. Dynamic range differences are probably there, but it's not that big of a gap, and you wouldn't see it in most cases. Are you going to get the exact same quality? Well, no...but you won't get the exact same quality on APS-C either. The OM-D competes VERY strongly with the majority of APS-C cameras out there right now.
p.2 #12 · "Best" Mirrorless Camera with Viewfinder?
Personally, if you want a 35mm equivalent, then it's the NEX-7+ZA24, otherwise it's the OM-D. If you want a full lens linup with AF, then it's the OM-D by a mile, the NEX-7 when considering AF lenses only is for someone who loves 35mm-e, and is willing to live with a (24/28)/35/75, 28/45/75 or 35/75 combo of primes with the 24,28 and 45 equivalents being slowish (f2.8). Right now I'd only consider the other m43 bodies if I wanted video (GH2) or was looking for an ultra-compact body (GX1) and for the latter I'd prefer to wait for Oly to refresh the Pen line with the 16MP sensor.
I disagree with JonasY on a number of points, starting with the ZA24 being inferior to the ZM equivalents (it ain't. Sonnar vs Distagon rendering styles are the only real difference and everybody knocking the ZA24 against ZM's is complaining about a lack of Distagon-style rendering). I also disagree on equivalence, it just doesn't work as a comparison tool unless you live at ISO1600+.
If you're an original 5D shooter, you'll probably be happy with an OM-D, you lose a little SNR but gain everywhere else (DR, colour, resolution, ISO range, AF performance), a 5DII shooter will see actual losses in resolution and SNR.
p.2 #13 · "Best" Mirrorless Camera with Viewfinder?
Jman13, that's exactly what I was trying to say - the image quality is not the same. you just confirmed it in your post.
I'm a former Canon / Nikon shooter and I remember the time I bought Panasonic GH2 for video and how bad the IQ was in comparison with my D3S.
The OM-D is a big leap from GH2 , I agree on that, but IQ is still not up to DSLR.
p.2 #14 · "Best" Mirrorless Camera with Viewfinder?
Chuck, I think the OM-D would be a pretty sweet camera for what you do. It's got impressive image quality, it's small and the lenses are downright tiny. I carry the 20mm 1.7 and 45mm 1.8 (40mm and 90mm equivalents) and either lens makes Canons nifty fifty look big. Other things I think you would appreciate:
Extended depth of field on the smaller format, i.e. shooting the 12mm f/2 wide open gives you the light gathering ability of f/2 but you get the depth of field of f/4 (FF equivalent). Some people think this is terrible, for what you do I think it will actually be great keeping more of the scene in focus since you are all about context.
Tilting touch screen LCD. I bought this camera because of the EVF, which is very good, but it turns out the LCD is pretty awesome too. The tilting LCD lets you shoot from the hip easily and get the exact composition you want, I find I get way less attention from people shooting this way versus bringing the camera to my eye. What I really find awesome is that you can touch a point on the LCD and it focuses and snaps the shot pretty near instantly. Compose, tap, done. All with the camera at your waist.
Face detect AF. Kind of self explanatory but it really seems to work, you turn the setting on and it prioritizes faces in the scene for AF. It shows a white box hovering over peoples faces so you know which one it has chosen if multiple people are in the shot.
It's shutter is quiet. Not too much to say but my 5DII shutter is obnoxious in comparison.
There's actually quite a few other features that I love about the OM-D, but I think those things match up with your style really well. I'll shoot you a PM and you can handle mine if you can't find one locally to put your hands on.
p.2 #15 · "Best" Mirrorless Camera with Viewfinder?
vovkinson wrote:
The OM-D is a big leap from GH2 , I agree on that, but IQ is still not up to DSLR.
Umm, the IQ is in fact superior to many DSLR's (including all of the 4/3rds DSLR's and several of the currently available APS-C DSLR's including IMHO the 7D). What it can't match is the current 35mm FF bodies (not DSLR's as a whole).
p.2 #17 · "Best" Mirrorless Camera with Viewfinder?
vovkinson wrote:
mawz, my bad. I should have been more specific. I did not know that GH2 fell into DSLR category.
While the GH2 is not a DSLR, the 4/3rds sensors have been used in DSLR's including the current Olympus E-5 (which uses the exact same 12MP sensor used in the Pen m43 bodies and the 12MP Panasonic m43 bodies). Sensor size and technology and lens quality determines IQ, not the body type.
p.2 #18 · "Best" Mirrorless Camera with Viewfinder?
I have used the 5D and 5D II since its introduction and I have just made the decision to give it up completely for the OM-D because it suits my needs and style of shooting so much more. The fun factor went up tenfold and I am not giving up too much IQ, so the trade-off is a no-brainer to me. Of course YMMV.
vovkinson wrote:
I agree with JonasY , but also note: If you're 5D shooter you will be disappointed by quality of 4/3 cameras like OM-D
p.2 #19 · "Best" Mirrorless Camera with Viewfinder?
I disagree. The OM-D may not match the IQ of a FF DSLR but it can most certainly compete with the best APS-C/crop DSLRs. I've owned the 7D twice and still have a Rebel.
vovkinson wrote:
The OM-D is a big leap from GH2 , I agree on that, but IQ is still not up to DSLR.
p.2 #20 · "Best" Mirrorless Camera with Viewfinder?
Hey Chuck,
I don't have experience shooting the OM-D or X100, so I can't speak to the merits of one over another. To be honest, I am heavily jonesing for an X100. I absolutely love the IQ I've seen from it online. I assume you've read Arias' review? http://zackarias.com/for-photographers/gear-gadgets/fuji-x100-review/
As far as using Fujis for family work, you may want to look at this guy's stuff and reviews- he shoots both the X100 and X-Pro1. Good family documentary stuff. http://www.laroquephoto.com/blog/
